Durham gets the first Russiagate conviction – Ex-Justice Department lawyer Kevin Clinesmith

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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Found it. It was further back then I thought.

Buried in the Political Meme thread of all places....

https://forum.surfer.com/index.php?threads/political-meme-thread.197348/page-69#post-3043994

You can go back a page or 2 from there to see how it evolved.

You wanted conviction and that's what we got back in August.

Pleading guilty is the same as a conviction. He was already indicted and prosecuted.

It took a bit of sleuthing. I found hints here and there early this year, but ended up just going back from Jan 1, because I knew it wasn't long before then.

https://forum.surfer.com/index.php?threads/criminal-investigation-of-the-fbi-for-forging-documents-used-to-start-the-trump-russia-collusion-probe-has-begun.223583/page-2

I feel your pain. :monkey:

he has plead guilty, yes.

however, the case has not been adjudicated

there is not a legal conviction by deadline per bet
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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Your words:

......" a conviction" means something...specific.
I don't see why you're being combative, I'm simply asking for clarification.

"prosecutions" is nebulous....a conviction means a charge and a guilty verdict
which is really what the spirit of the bet is about. "......
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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yes, thank you for pointing out the specificity of my words.

please show me the conviction and/or guilty verdict.
 
Oct 3, 2020
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"a conviction" means something...specific.

Yes it does. But it does not mean what you say exclusively.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/conviction

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conviction noun (CRIME)

the fact of officially being found to be guilty of a particular crime, or....
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No abeyance has been requested, and none has been granted. My first article shows that sentencing will happpen in December.
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studog

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Jan 15, 2003
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Welcome to the first Durham Russiagate conviction

Ex-FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith pleads guilty in first criminal case arising from Durham probe

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The significance of a Kevin Clinesmith guilty plea

…..Because the FBI is a federal law enforcement agency with the power to arrest and charge Americans for crimes, falsifying a document is pretty serious business.

It’s even more serious when you find out what he falsified: an email from the CIA. The altered document was used to persuade the highly secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to approve the FBI’s application for a third renewal of a secret wiretap on an American citizen.

Stop and think about that for just a minute. The United States government’s law enforcement agency falsified a document from the U.S. government’s intelligence agency in order to persuade a judicial body to approve secret surveillance of an American…..

…..A few weeks later, on Aug. 17, the CIA provided to some members of the FBI team conducting the investigation, named “Crossfire Hurricane,” documents indicating that Carter Page had been an “operational contact” for the CIA, someone who provided the U.S. government with information derived from his conversations with Russian officials…..

The FBI decided to seek a third renewal of the warrant. This time the FBI’s investigator sought to clarify Page’s role with the CIA.

That’s when Kevin Clinesmith changed an email from the CIA, which confirmed Page’s role. He altered “is” to “is not” a source.

The FBI investigators seeking the surveillance warrant gave this altered email to the FISA court, and on June 29, 2017, the court approved a third renewal of the authorization to secretly wiretap a U.S. citizen.

Clinesmith has now (pleaded) guilty to one felony count of making a false statement.

This is only one of the pieces of the puzzle now being assembled by U.S. Attorney John Durham, who was appointed by Attorney General William Barr to investigate the FBI’s “Crossfire Hurricane” investigation. We could see indictments for illegal leaks of secret information and perhaps for other crimes…..
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Durham doesn't deserve much credit. The case originated out Horowitz's investigation last year
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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that's pretty rude to accuse me of squirming...

I was very clear about terms in the bet to avoid a situation such as this
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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yes, thank you for pointing out the specificity of my words.

please show me the conviction and/or guilty verdict.
The defendant pleaded guilty. So it's a guilty verdict.

Would the prosecution take it back?

Would they say, "no we don't accept your guilty plea"?

Nice try. :crazy2:

Only issue left is sentencing. THAT was not part of the bet.
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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The defendant pleaded guilty. So it's a guilty verdict.

Would the prosecution take it back?

Would they say, "no we don't accept your guilty plea"?

Nice try. :crazy2:

Only issue left is sentencing. THAT was not part of the bet.

wrong.

entering a plea != verdict or conviction

the case has not been adjudicated.

and, yes, despite the rarity, a judge can refuse a guilty plea...ask me how I know!

keep squirming!
 
Oct 3, 2020
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If it was someone on your team who pled guilty, and Trump was directing Barr to ratf--k the case, yeah, as evidenced by the Michael Flynn shitshow.

On 12/01/2017 Michaael Flynn pled guilty because his lawyers made a deal with the Mueller team in exchange for leniency and for not prosercuting Flynn's son. The Mueller prosercutors requested that Judge Sulivan hold Flynn's guilty plea in abeyance to secure Flynn's cooperation. Sulivan agreed. Subsequently we learned of prosecutorial misconduct. Flynn's case is still in abeyance while Judge Sullivan tries to argue against the new prosecutors withdrawing the case

As I said above, nobody requested abeyance for Clinesmith. Clinesmith is guilty as charged, and will be sentenced in December.
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Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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wrong.

entering a plea != verdict or conviction

the case has not been adjudicated.

and, yes, despite the rarity, a judge can refuse a guilty plea...ask me how I know!

keep squirming!
Having the case fully completed and all prosecutions judged was NOT part of the bet.

This case could still go on for months before it's fully judged on all relevant evidence STILL being revealed and unredacted.

We just agreed that we need one conviction or proven (admitted) guilt determined by Sept 30. And we have that in August. NOT that the case be fully prosecuted and ALL judgements finalized/adjudicated.

If you want to get into semantics of how YOU wanted to simplify the bet, have at it.
 

afoaf

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Jun 25, 2008
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here is the original post. you can see in preceding posts that I pushed for specificity and
even gave him the benefit of the full month of september after the fact....

awkward.

I just don't trust Barr.

let's keep it simple.

a conviction stemming from Horowitz report by Sept 2020 like you said above.
 

Surfdog

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Apr 22, 2001
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here is the original post. you can see in preceding posts that I pushed for specificity and
even gave him the benefit of the full month of september after the fact....

awkward.
Doesn't matter that it was pushed out to end of Sept. from "Sept. 2020". The guilty plea was in mid-August.

I didn't make a big deal about it at the time (already taken your money once on a bet), because we still had until Sept. 30, 2020 to see if more convictions would pop up. Not that it would mean collecting more per charge, just that it would further bolster the bet. But, we just needed ONE conviction, and that was it.