DIY kit?

PRCD

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Feb 25, 2020
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Yep, that's fair warning about big wings for light winds. Many (possibly most) wingers would prefer to quit than ride in situations that require a wing this big. It really does present some difficult logistics that can kinda wreck aspects of what makes it fun....big heavy wing to maneuver while wave riding, constant wipeouts due to catching wingtips, or maybe worst of all, the big wing makes it possible to attempt to ride in super marginal conditions that inevitably lead to long slogs and swims. Plus there's typically no wind swell to play in when winds are light anyway.
So more volume and a bigger, high-aspect foil are a better way to go in these situations than a larger wing? I suppose much depends on your height - if you're a taller guy you probably won't dip a big wing as much. I'm 6', but look at the size of this:

I have a high power 6m as my low end and have had a 7m, but for specialty reasons: when it's 12kt and there's good surf, I want to be able to wing it with some power to spare. WIthout surf and just for light wind playing around, it might not be worth the effort. As Hdip suggests: find a cheap gen1 6m, bang it up while learning, then upgrade later, that's the best bet. Above all: go to your local spot, observe what the experienced people are doing and copy them. That will shave months off of a very frustrating learning curve. Though I get the sense that's not how you roll ... and I have seen how the surfer DIY attitude plays out in wind sports over and over, it's the same butt kicking you'll get, just varies if quicker or extended ;-)
I've actually taken all your warnings about DIY to heart. I do learn things the hard way, but I've also tried to find lessons. The problem is as I described above - I'm going to be waiting a long time for an actual wingfoil lesson though I seem to have lined up an eFoil lesson. I could probably get a surf foil opportunity quicker, but I already surf. The other problem - probably the biggest - is that I cannot make the wind go any faster haha. This guy's having fun, though.
I don't think you'd ever use an 8m with a skateboard, as it's not needed. While learning, tape up wing ends to avoid scraping it on the pavement. If you feel start to feel overpowered skating, be quick to let the wing luff on the front handle and glide it out vs hanging on and getting pulled over....pavement is a lot harder than water.
Thanks.
 

PRCD

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Honestly, even a 6 M looks too big to try anything on land or on a skateboard:
1683735279980.png

Maybe I should try to get a used 4-5 just for land.
 

averagejoe

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@PRCD are you planning on going to Fiesta Island / Mission Bay? It looks like May is your best bet for wind - 25% of days are over 15kts. If I were you I'd buy a 135 L board, an 1,800 cm^2 foil and a 6m wing ASAP and get out there. This is your window. I stayed in the hotel right there with my wife for a nurse convention and kited that area - wind was too light at the time. I saw the potential though.
 
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Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
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Do you think this is big-enough for skating?
For wing skating sure. You're mainly pushing once or twice, then using apparent wind to continue your momentum. It's a good way to learn how to use the wind. You need a WIDE OPEN parking lot to do it. It's not going to be very fun on your residential street where the houses make holes in the wind.

You will use that for actual wing foiling maybe once a year during a storm front. Or every other day on Maui. :)

I was the only person on the water today. Couple fisherman on the shore. Amazing to be out alone in nature.

1683764170882.jpeg
 
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PRCD

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For wing skating sure. You're mainly pushing once or twice, then using apparent wind to continue your momentum. It's a good way to learn how to use the wind. You need a WIDE OPEN parking lot to do it. It's not going to be very fun on your residential street where the houses make holes in the wind.

You will use that for actual wing foiling maybe once a year during a storm front. Or every other day on Maui. :)

I was the only person on the water today. Couple fisherman on the shore. Amazing to be out alone in nature.

View attachment 153947
Looks like the wind was coming from the creek towards the dam and you tacked into the wind then gybed back. Is that right? What was your setup for this?
 

Hdip

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Looks like the wind was coming from the creek towards the dam and you tacked into the wind then gybed back. Is that right? What was your setup for this?
Backwards. Wind comes from the South, blows to the top of frame. I was on a 5.2m wing. 58L 4'8" wing board. Ono m800. I went from 1, down to 2 to measure the distance. It was 12 minutes of downwind simulation where you're trying to use the wing minimally. (not a true downwind, bumps aren't big enough) Then another 2 and a half minutes to 3 where I ran into a floating log. The water goes way back to at least 4. The lake is maybe 3 times the size it was last year. So was pretty fun to explore.

The downwing track is slightly straighter than the upwind track and more down the middle is how you can tell which is which. The upwind tracks are wider and have little loops on the end from the jibes.
 

averagejoe

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For wing skating sure. You're mainly pushing once or twice, then using apparent wind to continue your momentum. It's a good way to learn how to use the wind. You need a WIDE OPEN parking lot to do it. It's not going to be very fun on your residential street where the houses make holes in the wind.

You will use that for actual wing foiling maybe once a year during a storm front. Or every other day on Maui. :)

I was the only person on the water today. Couple fisherman on the shore. Amazing to be out alone in nature.

View attachment 153947
Holyshit
 

PRCD

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I'm hearing two contradictory things from youse guys - don't try to figure this out on your own (get help) and buy $3k of of gear and get out there now while I'm in peak wind for my local area. Seems like the best thing is to try to camp at Piru and take some classes there on a Saturday, if they had any.
 

juandesooka

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funny how "the simplest and easiest wind sport to learn" gets so complex so fast. I guess it was simpler when we started 3-4 years ago. There was 1 or 2 wings available and you had to build or modify your board DIY. So you figured it out with what you had. And that ended up being a great learning progression as our boards were giant sups with tracks added that were super easy to use ... could just stand there, play with the wing til you figure out the mechanics. Then get a slightly smaller board, but still absurd in today's standards. Then the smaller boards that are the modern standard. Along with 4-5 wings that got progressively better in design.

Now there's so much gear and options, the choices are almost overwhelming.

I am a fan of learning on bigger boards, so that ideally means finding a cheap beater and then downloading to next person in line once time to upgrade. Also a fan of getting cheap older wing, as you're going to trash it learning, and err on side of too big than too small. Same for foil, err on side of more lift than you need vs not enough lift. Learning to control too much lift is way more fun than madly pumping and not being able to get up, and ending up way downwind over and over and over.

For skate, that 3.5m might work, but it'll virtually never get used in your locale on water. So better to wait and find a cheap 5m.

For water, those 8m is really powerful, but they are so big it may be hard to handle learning. You may be better off with a 6m, and as a standard size, should be lots around.

Lately seen some bizarre sales, 3 sizes in a package for $799-999 ... seems like that may be a sign that things are changing in the industry.
 
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PRCD

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funny how "the simplest and easiest wind sport to learn" gets so complex so fast. I guess it was simpler when we started 3-4 years ago. There was 1 or 2 wings available and you had to build or modify your board DIY. So you figured it out with what you had. And that ended up being a great learning progression as our boards were giant sups with tracks added that were super easy to use ... could just stand there, play with the wing til you figure out the mechanics. Then get a slightly smaller board, but still absurd in today's standards. Then the smaller boards that are the modern standard. Along with 4-5 wings that got progressively better in design.

Now there's so much gear and options, the choices are almost overwhelming.

I am a fan of learning on bigger boards, so that ideally means finding a cheap beater and then downloading to next person in line once time to upgrade. Also a fan of getting cheap older wing, as you're going to trash it learning, and err on side of too big than too small. Same for foil, err on side of more lift than you need vs not enough lift. Learning to control too much lift is way more fun than madly pumping and not being able to get up, and ending up way downwind over and over and over.
I'm definitely going to get a 135 L boar, but the question is whether I should get a downwind boar or a regular one.
For skate, that 3.5m might work, but it'll virtually never get used in your locale on water. So better to wait and find a cheap 5m.
I decided not to get the 3.5 b/c I probably wouldn't be able to feel the wind much without a lot of wind. I know from sailing in small lakes that it's really hard to figure out a clear heading for a tack or gybe in light variable winds.
For water, those 8m is really powerful, but they are so big it may be hard to handle learning. You may be better off with a 6m, and as a standard size, should be lots around.
Yes - 6m would probably meet my need for land practice - just standing or on the skateboard also. 8m seems like a lot of canvas.

Lately seen some bizarre sales, 3 sizes in a package for $799-999 ... seems like that may be a sign that things are changing in the industry.
The industry definitely needs to figure out how to onboard newbs. Sounds like you could make money at this haha.
 

averagejoe

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I'm hearing two contradictory things from youse guys - don't try to figure this out on your own (get help) and buy $3k of of gear and get out there now while I'm in peak wind for my local area. Seems like the best thing is to try to camp at Piru and take some classes there on a Saturday, if they had any.
I think the easiest way for you to learn would be to go on a one week trip to a location that has consistent wind every day and take a lesson a day. This time of year, the Realwatersports guys in Hatteras would be your best bet. That's basically a zero to hero program. Cost for a 3 day camp with realwater is about $1,700 for the lessons plus travel and accommodations.

Short of that, watch some videos and try to go figure it out. I think I posted a few links to videos that really make sense. Get the 6m wing and spend a couple hours on the beach getting a feel for it based on what you pick up from the videos. Even better if you have the board there to practice with.

These two videos are enough to get you going



Start by taxing on your knees and staying upwind. Once you can stay upwind, start getting to your feet and taxiing (i'm not there yet - going to take a couple more sessions). Then practice coming up on foil and setting it down, up on foil, set it down. This is exactly how I learned to foil on a kite.

The reason I'm suggesting you jump on it is you have a limited window for flat water in your area

When I was down in Ventana, I was considering moving to San Diego and talked to a bunch of kiters down there from that area. The most frequent suggestion was a 15m high aspect kite and a foil. That will get you the most days.
 
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Hdip

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Yup, still a new sport and the best way to get into it hasn't been completely figured out yet. San Diego is not known for it's wind. This month is one of the better months for wind there.

18-20 MPH of wind is ideal for learning.

Unfortunately it's still new enough that spending money gives you advancement. You can buy skill.
 

PRCD

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Yup, still a new sport and the best way to get into it hasn't been completely figured out yet. San Diego is not known for it's wind. This month is one of the better months for wind there.

18-20 MPH of wind is ideal for learning.

Unfortunately it's still new enough that spending money gives you advancement. You can buy skill.
You seem to have the SoCal spots dialed - Cabrillo has consistent winds and so does Piru. Depending on their orientation, some of these lake canyons make a wind tunnel.

Start by taxing on your knees and staying upwind. Once you can stay upwind, start getting to your feet and taxiing (i'm not there yet - going to take a couple more sessions). Then practice coming up on foil and setting it down, up on foil, set it down. This is exactly how I learned to foil on a kite.
The easiest point of sail is a reach. Is this different with a wing? In that first video, she's taking off on a reach.

The reason I'm suggesting you jump on it is you have a limited window for flat water in your area

When I was down in Ventana, I was considering moving to San Diego and talked to a bunch of kiters down there from that area. The most frequent suggestion was a 15m high aspect kite and a foil. That will get you the most days.
Looks like Lake Hodges is another possibility. Variable winds (most lakes have variable winds):
 
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juandesooka

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that's good advice on location...a solid week in maui, hatteras, hood river or la ventana, even without lessons, you'd have it down. The learning curve is quite short but it needs some intensive focus to get over the hump. I have a buddy who has been trying to learn for a year...spends so many hours in crap wind getting nowhere, because he goes when he has time and where he can get to easily, versus committing to it and sacrificing whatever else is getting in the way. It's painful to watch the ongoing frustration! So...a lesson to be learned there. Sounds like you already have wind experience, so you know about that fickle mistress.

A 6m and a 135L board and a decently big foil...you'd be on the way. I'd go for a big fat barge vs a downwind board. Those dw boards are narrow, can't imagine it would be much fun trying to figure out winging on that. Get one later when you are RAD :)
 
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Hdip

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Apr 23, 2005
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1684114291918.png

$1200 obo. That blue wing will get you flying. The gear is in la. Not mine though.

board is 6’3” 120ish liters
 
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