Deconditioning

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,231
10,431
113
33.8N - 118.4W
Sounds like a lot of you are obsessed with numbers going up. I'm obsessed with numbers going down, as in my run times. I'm not training once a week. I train with barbell once a week. And if by training you mean trying to push the numbers up I'm not training, just maintaining. I also run twice a week and was doing a body weight day, although that was the one that got neglected the most. We'll see after tomorrow's barbell session if I've recuperated a little....

I also surf whenever conditions permit. Yesterday was really good. Raining, uncrowded and a really cool side/offshore texture and head high sets. I surfed until I heard a really loud crack of thunder. I saw the sky light up but didn't see the lightening strike because it was behind my back. There was no delay at all between the light and the crack. After the crack the thunder continued for a long time. I was told by someone else that the lightening hit in the hills right above where we were surfing. I saw one more flash in the sky right overhead and decided I'd surfed enough.

Neck/shoulder and back are always sore after a surf nowadays....
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: slipped_disc

freeride76

Michael Peterson status
Dec 31, 2009
3,413
4,264
113
Lennox Head.
My biggest obstacle to gains rn is the hatred of whey I developed at some point. Along with whatever program I was doing that produced legit gains (loaded carries/farmers walks, EDT kb complexes, 5x5x5) I was also drinking protein shakes like it was my job. Now I can get one down every once in awhile but not on a consistent enough basis to really add some mass
Why not eat food?
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
2,261
1,468
113
Regional Vic, Australia
Sounds like a lot of you are obsessed with numbers going up. I'm obsessed with numbers going down, as in my run times. I'm not training once a week. I train with barbell once a week. And if by training you mean trying to push the numbers up I'm not training, just maintaining. I also run twice a week and was doing a body weight day, although that was the one that got neglected the most. We'll see after tomorrow's barbell session if I've recuperated a little....

I also surf whenever conditions permit. Yesterday was really good. Raining, uncrowded and a really cool side/offshore texture and head high sets. I surfed until I heard a really loud crack of thunder. I saw the sky light up but didn't see the lightening strike because it was behind my back. There was no delay at all between the light and the crack. After the crack the thunder continued for a long time. I was told by someone else that the lightening hit in the hills right above where we were surfing. I saw one more flash in the sky right overhead and decided I'd surfed enough.

Neck/shoulder and back are always sore after a surf nowadays....
I'm more like you with my motivation for training. I'm trying to protect and prolong the life of my unstable/damaged shoulders and also protect the core/back. Not an aspiring strongman. Its not a hobby/obsession in itself, although I do find it satisfying and a good way to start a non surfing day which means I'm resistance training 2 to 3 times a week with some shoulder rehab exercises and core training being done almost every day (dumbbell shrugs and elastic/dumbbell inward outward rotations for shoulders) triangle and reverse triangle yoga poses for core.

When I surf, which is up to 4 days a week, I almost always surf twice in a day. I have solved the problem of surfing interfering with resistance and vice versa. It won't be considered satisfactory by most on this thread, but it does seem to have helped my pop-up, which had gone into regression. My answer is really light on the physio prescribed re-hab sets/reps program. eg. straight leg bent dumbbell rows performed with just a pair of 4 and 5KG dumbbells - up to 16 reps 2 sets, twice in a day. I don't get sore from this on a frequency of 2-3 times a week and its not interfering with my paddling - maybe even helping. Surf sessions are 1hr max.

Squats with the same pair of dumbbells - only 8 reps. I squat right down until my haunches are a few inches off the ground - reasoning is that I am adopting this low position on my surfing boars at times. Jefferson curls with a pair of 3kg dumbbells in each hand. 2.5 KG lying outward dumbbell rotations up to 20 reps, 2 sets twice a day. Also various elastic and exercise ball stuff. Tiny resistance I know.

I don't hurt after surfing despite damage to my shoulders - both sides have divots in the cartilage from dislocations (hills sachs and reverse hills sachs), the left has a "scarred up" HAGL tear. My right shoulder AC joint is slightly displaced from a bicycle accident, an MRI shows some arthritis there although it does not trouble me surfing. I am unable to sleep on my right side without waking up with a pain in the shoulder. I've had a couple of accidents in the last year which I partly put down to making more mistakes as I get older - I've become very aware that being able to surf will not last forever. My prediction is that a combination of becoming more accident prone and the damage to my shoulders will catch up with at some point - but I'm not there yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slipped_disc

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,658
23,324
113
62
Vagina Point
Why not eat food?
Americans are not into eating for health.

We like taste and convenience.

But eating really is the best way to do it.

That said it's hard to hit 1 gram of protein per body weight if you don't go high calorie.

A 40 gram protein shake gets you closer, easier.

Then you do the rest with food.

I got really lean doing 3 shakes a day and a meal.

But that is not really sustainable.

But I think think is good to lean up every once in a while.

To go on the campaign.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chocki

freeride76

Michael Peterson status
Dec 31, 2009
3,413
4,264
113
Lennox Head.
Americans are not into eating for health.

We like taste and convenience.

But eating really is the best way to do it.

That said it's hard to hit 1 gram of protein per body weight if you don't go high calorie.

A 40 gram protein shake gets you closer, easier.

Then you do the rest with food.

I got really lean doing 3 shakes a day and a meal.

But that is not really sustainable.

But I think think is good to lean up every once in a while.

To go on the campaign.

I have tremendous faith in biology and evolution, in terms of how an organism can thrive.

eg, if I wanted to know what made a lion thrive I would observe what it ate in it's natural environment and consider that it's proper nutrition.

Likewise, humans evolved to eat a varied diet and have thrived for millennia on this diet.

This is a scientific view, but open to interpretation.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,658
23,324
113
62
Vagina Point
I have tremendous faith in biology and evolution, in terms of how an organism can thrive.

eg, if I wanted to know what made a lion thrive I would observe what it ate in it's natural environment and consider that it's proper nutrition.

Likewise, humans evolved to eat a varied diet and have thrived for millennia on this diet.

This is a scientific view, but open to interpretation.
I agree.

Humans are highly adaptable omnivores.

A varied diet of unrefined foods is the best way to go.

I think when you get older you need to eat less while keeping your protien level high.

So I don't think adding a little whey to some yogurt is going to hurt anything and may be beneficial.

I'm growing sweet potatoes and lettuce in the back yard so I am getting ready to be a country livin farmer living close to the land Byron Bay style.

My poppies keep dying.
 
Last edited:

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,798
8,819
113
I interrupted my barbell program for three weeks to focus on the half marathon race. Went back to it last Friday. I scaled back both reps and weight and still got some serious DOMS.

How long can you go before noticeably deconditioning? Is there amy realible method for dosing after a lay off period?
The key is probably to look at systemic fatigue due to overall activity and localized fatigue, eg. soreness in a specific muscle group. To minimize the former from weightlifting, you can cut back on the volume or use exercises that are less systemically-fatiguing (front squats or machine hack squats instead of back squats, SLDLs instead of the full DL or just cut out DLing altogether). If your legs are tired from running, do fewer sets of squats or leg exercises.

You probably need a stretching program. See my other thread.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,231
10,431
113
33.8N - 118.4W
The key is probably to look at systemic fatigue due to overall activity and localized fatigue, eg. soreness in a specific muscle group. To minimize the former from weightlifting, you can cut back on the volume or use exercises that are less systemically-fatiguing (front squats or machine hack squats instead of back squats, SLDLs instead of the full DL or just cut out DLing altogether). If your legs are tired from running, do fewer sets of squats or leg exercises.

You probably need a stretching program. See my other thread.
It's funny, the ones you say to cut back on- low bar squat and deadlifts- are the ones I feel I need the most for injury prevention (my main goal with the barbell). It's always the hamstrings that get sore (squats). The soreness I get in my back from the DL I can deal with. I also do front lunges with barbell which are really tiring (get some cardio doing those), but again they feel essential for preventing running injury.

I do a 15 minute stretch routine first thing every morning- back extensions, hamstring stretches, piriformis stretch, lumbar rotation ("open book"), back extension/neck rotations, downward dog (calves), hip flexors (deep lunges), and groin. Then a couple sets of push ups to failure ( I have not been seeing any more inprovement there- form failure at 35).

I'm about to go out for my 10k with intervals. For my heart I think this is my most important exercise-


This is especially important given my "bridge." I have to develope the "collaterals."

 
Last edited:

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,231
10,431
113
33.8N - 118.4W
How many sets are you doing when you squat?
3 warm sets of 5 reps with increasing weight. Then 3x5. I tried doing two drop sets with the light weights, AMRAP, after the 3x5 but, man, I would be hobbled for 3 days after that. So no more drop sets. I should mention that 3x5 was my reduced load after the three week lay off. I repeated that this past Friday and no DOMS. Also, I was up to 3x8 with heavier weight before. I won't tell you the weights to avoid ridicule by Havoc and VM.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,658
23,324
113
62
Vagina Point
3 warm sets of 5 reps with increasing weight. Then 3x5. I tried doing two drop sets with the light weights, AMRAP, after the 3x5 but, man, I would be hobbled for 3 days after that. So no more drop sets. I should mention that 3x5 was my reduced load after the three week lay off. I repeated that this past Friday and no DOMS. Also, I was up to 3x8 with heavier weight before. I won't tell you the weights to avoid ridicule by Havoc and VM.
In your position I would warm up and do one heavy work set.

You just want to signal the nervous system that you need to move this heavy weight.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
14,231
10,431
113
33.8N - 118.4W
In your position I would warm up and do one heavy work set.

You just want to signal the nervous system that you need to move this heavy weight.
Like just one set of 8 reps? Is the nerve signal enough develop/maintain strength?

What is the value of total volume?
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,658
23,324
113
62
Vagina Point
Like just one set of 8 reps? Is the nerve signal enough develop/maintain strength?

What is the value of total volume?
Yes!

For a little while.

Some people grow with high volume.

When you are older you have to cut back.

And then you are running too.

It's hard to serve two masters.
 
Last edited:

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
6,552
7,097
113
Planet Earth
Like just one set of 8 reps? Is the nerve signal enough develop/maintain strength?

What is the value of total volume?
since in wicked lazy I’ve ended up doing more than anything/found 5x5 of kb clean and press to be an effective enough tool to prevent decompositioning. Kb swings are also excellent as they’re essentially high rep dls ie x # of swings per day, 50?
 
Last edited: