COVID Vaccines Are Shots in the Dark

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Kelly Slater status
Sep 25, 2009
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Body of Christ, Texas

This is the data that should make one glad to be vaccinated. One can clearly see there's approximately 1/3 the chance of getting infected, but the real advantage doesn't kick in until one considers hospitalization (~1/11 the chance) and death (~1/13 the chance). Unfortunately for the unvaccinated, vaccinated people can still transmit, albeit at a reduced rate. So, 1/3 x 1/11 x 1/13 = 1/430.

The unvaccinated are 430 times more likely to die of covid-19 than the vaccinated.

Of course, some of you may go to Hell for such a lapse in faith as to be vaccinated, but I won't. I'm not afraid. (Some of you are in a kind of Hell already.)
 
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Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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What is the misleading stat about unvaccinated in the ICU?
It’s not broken down by age as well

The same people who have always been in danger are in danger now

The “unvaccinated in ICU” stat is used to push the vaccines on young and healthy people who don’t otherwise need it. The vaccine does not stop infection nor transmission so if you’re not old or disgustingly obese you’re going to be ok without putting a poison in your body that will lay you out for a day or two
 

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Kelly Slater status
Sep 25, 2009
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Body of Christ, Texas
It’s not broken down by age as well

The same people who have always been in danger are in danger now

The “unvaccinated in ICU” stat is used to push the vaccines on young and healthy people who don’t otherwise need it. The vaccine does not stop infection nor transmission so if you’re not old or disgustingly obese you’re going to be ok without putting a poison in your body that will lay you out for a day or two
So far the vaccine stops roughly 2/3 of the infections. Many seemingly healthy people have died of covid-19 for vulnerabilities medical science has yet to determine.
 

Ifallalot

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So far the vaccine stops roughly 2/3 of the infections. Many seemingly healthy people have died of covid-19 for vulnerabilities medical science has yet to determine.
Yes, but their ages matter more than anything else. Why are you dancing around this?

 

Norm'

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Jan 31, 2003
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Yes, but their ages matter more than anything else. Why are you dancing around this?

The sample size is large enough that there are plenty of obese people, old people, and people with pre-existing conditions in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. The group going to the hospitals and dying at a MUCH greater rate, are clearly the unvaccinated. Like I said, you don't understand the data.
 

Ifallalot

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The sample size is large enough that there are plenty of obese people, old people, and people with pre-existing conditions in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. The group going to the hospitals and dying at a MUCH greater rate, are clearly the unvaccinated. Like I said, you don't understand the data.
I don't think you do

The people dying at a much greater rate are obese, old, and pre-existing BEFORE the vaccination data even matters

The point is that it's being pushed on people who don't need it
 

Norm'

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Jan 31, 2003
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The sample size should be large enough that there are people who are obese, old, and have pre-existing, conditions, in the vaccinated group as well. The common factor is the vaccine.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
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Jacksonville Beach
If the vaccination rate of older/obese people was over 90% I might see this line of thinking.

But it's not. If the vaccine did absolutely nothing, the ICU population's vaccination rate would more closely resemble the at-risk population's at large vaccination rate.

It doesn't.

Over 90% of people in the ICU are not vaccinated.
 
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Phi1

Miki Dora status
May 21, 2002
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The vaccine does not stop infection nor transmission so if you’re not old or disgustingly obese you’re going to be ok without putting a poison in your body that will lay you out for a day or two
The vaccine does reduce chance of infection thereby preventing transmission though, correct?

It’s weird to categorize a vaccine that instructs the body how to fight COVID as poison, but actual COVID is just a problem for the old and weak.

If the vaccine lays people out for a day or two, I wonder if the virus would be worse.
 
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plasticbertrand

Tom Curren status
Jan 12, 2009
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It’s not broken down by age as well

The same people who have always been in danger are in danger now
LOL

Just saying they “are still in danger” while ignoring the fact that that danger is vastly reduced, makes you the anti-science moron that you are.
 

Mr Doof

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Jan 23, 2002
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Normally in trials they separate people by risk group in order not to skew the results and be able to parse the data.
In the course of my life, have been in a few trials: medical, legal, marketing, personal.

Marketing trials are definitely skewed to elicit responses from target demographics. If you liked the Japanese whiskey and tequila marketing action of the late 90s and early 00s, you're welcome. If you dislike the price mark-up and proliferation of crap booze that went along with it, I'm sorry.

Legal trials are skewed to get the most impartial or reasonable group possible. I know this sounds wrong, but lawyers are egotistical mofos who have to believe they can sway a reasonable person.....they know there is no talking to a true a believer and get them to change their mind.

Medical trials are somewhat difficult to access. If an entity wants a certain demographic to use a given product, you got to test it on that demographic, so you have to skew things. But for a pandemic, we're all the demographic that needs to be skewed to. So in this regard, a better trial would be not to separate people out at first so you get the whole picture. (Which is what Norm appears to be saying.) Once this is done, then it makes sense to break things out to get some granularity. (Which is what I think Ifallalot/VonMeister are getting at). To me, and just to me, it seems sensible to understand that we're all part of the whole and therefore Norm's words should make sense, and yet, I know I'm not overweight (but am thankfully getting closer to the realm of being a geriatric surfer) so I do understand the reasoning and appeal of VonMeister/Ifallalot's words.

Personal trials, yeah, well, who hasn't had 'em? :monkey: You go through them and do not come out unchanged.....hopefully for the better in the long run.


If the vaccine lays people out for a day or two, I wonder if the virus would be worse.
I was thinking this same thing. My 2nd shot gave me such a bad hangover-like reaction that if I had 7 days of that due to a real infection, I'd be like, "Fine, kill me already." (side note to self: man up, you wuss!)
 
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Ifallalot

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The vaccine does reduce chance of infection thereby preventing transmission though, correct?

It’s weird to categorize a vaccine that instructs the body how to fight COVID as poison, but actual COVID is just a problem for the old and weak.

If the vaccine lays people out for a day or two, I wonder if the virus would be worse.
No

The vaccine is merely a prophylactic against serious sickness, it doesn't reduce infection or transmission rates

If I put something in my body and it makes me sick, it is a poison; actual COVID is just a problem for the old and weak, the numbers are right there for you to see