Consumer confidence up

[obslop]

One thing that gets missed when Repubs criticize Obama for tepid growth is that this period has been a very long period of growth. I think the word is stability. Quite an achievement considering the state of the economy after 8 years of our last Repub admin. With Trump I'm thinking we're in for a rocky ride. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

http://www.businessinsider.com/duration-of-us-economic-expansions-since-the-1850s-2015-4

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/investing/longest-economic-recovery-ever/

Its false growth though. Growth for the financial class in the more or less fantasy world of financial products and corporate profits does not translate to real world economic improvement and growth

and it'll stay that way for the foreseeable future.

trump just named a goldman alumni as Treasury Secretary

Of course he did. But Crooked Hillary was crooked for taking money for her speeches to them.

the foundation donations have dried up; what do you think wall street will pay HRC for a speech now? $0 i suspect.

 

[StuAzole]

yeah, that's definitely not part of a longer-term trend, along with rising wages, lower unemployment and increased job openings. Good call.

Rising wages?

http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

I love 2 year old charts when we're discussing recent trends.

 

[One-Off]

One thing that gets missed when Repubs criticize Obama for tepid growth is that this period has been a very long period of growth. I think the word is stability. Quite an achievement considering the state of the economy after 8 years of our last Repub admin. With Trump I'm thinking we're in for a rocky ride. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

http://www.businessinsider.com/duration-of-us-economic-expansions-since-the-1850s-2015-4

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/investing/longest-economic-recovery-ever/

Its false growth though. Growth for the financial class in the more or less fantasy world of financial products and corporate profits does not translate to real world economic improvement and growth

Financial products like 401ks? Don't you have one? Most people do. I don't but the teacher's retirement system in heavily invested in Wall Street.. Main Street and Wall Street are pretty intertwined.

 

[Ifallalot]

yeah, that's definitely not part of a longer-term trend, along with rising wages, lower unemployment and increased job openings. Good call.

Rising wages?

http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

I love 2 year old charts when we're discussing recent trends.

http://www.epi.org/nominal-wage-tracker/

Far, far under even 2008. Wages have been dropping or stagnant since the early 70s

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=117112&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

 

[Ifallalot]

BTW

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113716&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113715&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

 

[obslop]

One thing that gets missed when Repubs criticize Obama for tepid growth is that this period has been a very long period of growth. I think the word is stability. Quite an achievement considering the state of the economy after 8 years of our last Repub admin. With Trump I'm thinking we're in for a rocky ride. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

http://www.businessinsider.com/duration-of-us-economic-expansions-since-the-1850s-2015-4

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/investing/longest-economic-recovery-ever/

Its false growth though. Growth for the financial class in the more or less fantasy world of financial products and corporate profits does not translate to real world economic improvement and growth

Financial products like 401ks? Don't you have one? Most people do. I don't but the teacher's retirement system in heavily invested in Wall Street.. Main Street and Wall Street are pretty intertwined.

you're right about their being a relationship patrolman but don't forget that main street always becomes wall street's bagholder when markets significantly correct.

wall street gets bailouts; mainstreet gets 40% off the top of their 401ks.

 

[Ifallalot]

401ks are the best way Wall Street ever devised slavery to them

 

[Surfdog]

BUY! BUY! BUY!

SELL! SELL! SELL!

BUY! BUY! BUY!

Rinse kit and repeat.

 

[StuAzole]

One thing that gets missed when Repubs criticize Obama for tepid growth is that this period has been a very long period of growth. I think the word is stability. Quite an achievement considering the state of the economy after 8 years of our last Repub admin. With Trump I'm thinking we're in for a rocky ride. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.

http://www.businessinsider.com/duration-of-us-economic-expansions-since-the-1850s-2015-4

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/investing/longest-economic-recovery-ever/

Its false growth though. Growth for the financial class in the more or less fantasy world of financial products and corporate profits does not translate to real world economic improvement and growth

and it'll stay that way for the foreseeable future.

trump just named a goldman alumni as Treasury Secretary

Of course he did. But Crooked Hillary was crooked for taking money for her speeches to them.

the foundation donations have dried up; what do you think wall street will pay HRC for a speech now? $0 i suspect.

LOL. She'll be fine - $250k a pop still, no issue.

 

[StuAzole]

BTW

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113716&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113715&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

You're sticking to it, hey? All I said was that there's been a recent trend in wages. Comparing an 8 year chart against a hypothetical growth rate doesn't change that the 2nd half of 2105 and 2016 saw wages rise more quickly than in quite a while.

 

[Ifallalot]

BTW

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113716&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

<iframe width="100%" height="460" src="http://www.epi.org?p=113715&view=embed&embed_template=charts_v2013_08_21&embed_date=20161129&onp=75850&utm_source=epi_press&utm_medium=chart_embed&utm_campaign=charts_v2" frameborder="0"></iframe>

You're sticking to it, hey? All I said was that there's been a recent trend in wages. Comparing an 8 year chart against a hypothetical growth rate doesn't change that the 2nd half of 2105 and 2016 saw wages rise more quickly than in quite a while.

Look at those charts. They go to RIGHT NOW

Here, I'll quote it

[size:16pt]Updated November 4, 2016[/size]

Slow wage growth is a key sign of how far the U.S. economy remains from a full recovery.

On some fronts, the economy is steadily healing from the Great Recession. The unemployment rate is down, and the pace of monthly job growth is reversing some of the damage inflicted by the downturn. But the economy remains far from fully recovered.

A crucial measure of how far from full recovery the economy remains is the growth of nominal wages (wages unadjusted for inflation). Nominal wage growth since the recovery officially began in mid-2009 has been low and flat. This isn’t surprising–the weak labor market of the last seven years has put enormous downward pressure on wages. Employers don’t have to offer big wage increases to get and keep the workers they need. And this remains true even as a jobs recovery has consistently forged ahead in recent years.

Despite the incomplete nature of the recovery, influential voices are already calling for the Federal Reserve to guard against inflation by raising interest rates to slow the economy. The stakes in this debate are high. Macroeconomic policy (including monetary policy) that prioritized very low rates of inflation over low rates of unemployment is a key reason why real wages have stagnated for the vast majority of American workers in recent decades (as we have shown through our Raising America’s Pay initiative). Widespread wage growth will not occur over the coming years if the Federal Reserve prematurely slows the recovery in the name of fighting prospective inflation.

The following charts–which will be updated regularly when new data are released–help explain why the Fed should hold off on raising interest rates until nominal wages are growing at a much faster pace. Until nominal wages are rising by 3.5 to 4 percent, there is no threat that price inflation will begin to significantly exceed the Fed’s 2 percent inflation target. And it will take wage growth of at least 3.5 to 4 percent for workers to begin to reap the benefits of economic growth–and to achieve a genuine recovery from the Great Recession.

But go ahead and keep believing things are better

 

[obslop]

economic growth since '09 has been at the slowest rate since WW2:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/05/news/economy/us-recovery-slowest-since-wwii/

average period of expansion during a business cycle is 4 years:

http://www.frbsf.org/education/publications/doctor-econ/2002/may/business-cycles-economy/

total public debt as a % of GDP is presently at its highest level ever:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

total household debt in america, while below '09 recession levels, remains historically high:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_united_states_of_debt/2016/05/the_rise_of_household_debt_in_the_u_s_in_five_charts.html

====

this isn't a recovery; it's a set-up for an economic beatdown.

 

[StuAzole]

this board never ceases to amaze.

ifall, look at the last 12 months. What do you see on wages?

Let me help you: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/13/the-middle-class-and-the-poor-just-had-the-best-year-since-the-end-of-the-great-recession/?utm_term=.6051e7c16afc

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/08/wage-growth-hits-recent-highs-how-new-min-wages-may-factor-in-the-future.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/21/after-15-flat-years-american-wages-are-finally-really-rising.html

See, a recent trend.

obslop, I don't disagree with any of that. deep recession, slow recovery. we went from a simple discussion on a recent trend of improving economic indicators (which support the increase in consumer confidence that started this thread) to a discussion on the past 8 years in just a few posts.

 

[MJOJunkie]

It's really very simple.

Donald Trump ran as a repulitard and therefore the drain the swamp thing will never happen. It's DC man. DEEEE CEEEE. We're fcuked twenty ways to Sunday either way.

Even NPR is sounding like CNN lately. They were pathetic before (on their political bias) but now they are no better than MSNBC.

It's really very simple. Very simple.

Trump has been set up as the fall-guy for an economy that is teetering on the edge of recession or even depression. The coming recession/depression will discredit Trump and the populist/nationalist movement, setting the stage for the neoliberal globalists to return triumphantly to power in four years.

The economy seems good for many. The underlying fundamentals are atrocious. The underfunded pension crisis is just beginning. CALPERS is fcuked thirty ways to grandma. If you are getting a pension from CALPERS you best be ready to take massive cuts in the coming years. They will try to raise property taxes but that will exacerbate the crash. Weeeeee all this equity I'm rich fckuing LOL. What a joke. SO you have equity eh? You've got nothing until you sell biotches. Then the negative interest rates that are coming after the increase in rates crashes everything will fkcu you and me sideways.

It ain't what it seems. Trump is a Chump but Hillary was a sweet and delicious bag of candy!

Morans are they all~~!!!

 

[MJOJunkie]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/803873586121424896

 

[MJOJunkie]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/803975669134856193

 

[MJOJunkie]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/803885050613956608

 

[casa_mugrienta]

It's really very simple. Very simple.

Trump has been set up as the fall-guy for an economy that is teetering on the edge of recession or even depression. The coming recession/depression will discredit Trump and the populist/nationalist movement, setting the stage for the neoliberal globalists to return triumphantly to power in four years.

The economy seems good for many. The underlying fundamentals are atrocious. The underfunded pension crisis is just beginning. CALPERS is fcuked thirty ways to grandma. If you are getting a pension from CALPERS you best be ready to take massive cuts in the coming years. They will try to raise property taxes but that will exacerbate the crash. Weeeeee all this equity I'm rich fckuing LOL. What a joke. SO you have equity eh? You've got nothing until you sell biotches. Then the negative interest rates that are coming after the increase in rates crashes everything will fkcu you and me sideways.

I think this is pretty accurate.

As far as CalPERS goes, a lot of hospitals in SD have over the past year seen a flood of RNs leaving for UCSD to "get in on that pension." I have to laugh.

"All your pensions are belong to us"

 

[StuAzole]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/803885050613956608

And put your money under your pillow!

 

[obslop]

It's really very simple. Very simple.

Trump has been set up as the fall-guy for an economy that is teetering on the edge of recession or even depression. The coming recession/depression will discredit Trump and the populist/nationalist movement, setting the stage for the neoliberal globalists to return triumphantly to power in four years.

The economy seems good for many. The underlying fundamentals are atrocious. The underfunded pension crisis is just beginning. CALPERS is fcuked thirty ways to grandma. If you are getting a pension from CALPERS you best be ready to take massive cuts in the coming years. They will try to raise property taxes but that will exacerbate the crash. Weeeeee all this equity I'm rich fckuing LOL. What a joke. SO you have equity eh? You've got nothing until you sell biotches. Then the negative interest rates that are coming after the increase in rates crashes everything will fkcu you and me sideways.

I think this is pretty accurate.

As far as CalPERS goes, a lot of hospitals in SD have over the past year seen a flood of RNs leaving for UCSD to "get in on that pension." I have to laugh.

"All your pensions are belong to us"

as of July 2016 CalPERS held 68 cents for each dollar of liability.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/pension-underfunded/