California Air Resources Board: Mandate all new trucks operating around busy railways and ports be zero-emission vehicles by 2024.

$kully

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People work in pairs.
Yes, and while it is possible to change drivers while moving it isn't exactly safe, recommended or legal but alas I've done it, so for the sake of argument it is indeed possible. How often do you think pairs of drivers drive 2000 miles without stopping and changing drivers along the way? I'm gonna take a gander that the number of drivers that can fit that description represents a small fraction of a fraction of truckers on the road.
 

Sharky

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A quick search reveals that a long haul trucker does about 650-700 miles a day. So double that for a team of two.
 

$kully

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A quick search reveals that a long haul trucker does about 650-700 miles a day. So double that for a team of two.
They still make stops. That’s all I’m saying. That’s why the oldest profession thrives at truck stops. If truckers were routinely driving 2000 mile stretches without stopping there would be no need for truck stops and toothless hoors that work them. Instead there are countless truck stops along almost every major road in America.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Yes, and while it is possible to change drivers while moving it isn't exactly safe, recommended or legal but alas I've done it, so for the sake of argument it is indeed possible. How often do you think pairs of drivers drive 2000 miles without stopping and changing drivers along the way? I'm gonna take a gander that the number of drivers that can fit that description represents a small fraction of a fraction of truckers on the road.
Who said they change drivers while moving?
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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They still make stops. That’s all I’m saying. That’s why the oldest profession thrives at truck stops. If truckers were routinely driving 2000 mile stretches without stopping there would be no need for truck stops and toothless hoors that work them. Instead there are countless truck stops along almost every major road in America.
Yes, and you can get chicken wings, spicy steak fries, a 64oz Mountain Dew, a questionable blowjob, bump of meth and a shower all in 1/10th the time it takes to charge an electric tractor trailer that gets at best 500 miles on a charge.
 

casa_mugrienta

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What is the standard range that a single driver can safely drive without a break?

2000 Miles @ 75mph without stopping is roughly 26hrs...and a good stash of meth.

I have very little knowledge of the long haul trucking industry but I would suspect the "safe driving" rules are broken quite often, especially when it comes to smaller agencies or independent contract drivers who have their own rig.

I've driven paired through the night long distances 1000+ miles a few times... after 10 or 11 PM on some major cargo roads used by longhaulers it's basically the wild west and the truckers own the road. Pedal to the metal, insane passing, etc.

It's literally exactly what meth addled-driving would look like, so I think the old tales of truckers and stimulants still hold true.

Hope these truckers have big bladders
Trucker or not, nobody who drives long hauls stops to ****.

You just keep bottles or jugs and **** in them.

This is called "jugging"...if you ever do a highway cleanup you'll see tons of bottles half full of yellow liquid and jugging is why.
 

PRCD

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Why is there no discussion of onshoring mfg and increasing raw material production so we're not bringing so much in through the port and we can be less hypocritical about our pollution? Why is there no discussion about the reasons the interstate was built in the first place or why we decided to offshore all our mfg? Why instead are we just given a false dichotomy about the type of trucking to use rather than the alternatives?
 
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afoaf

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Why is there no discussion of onshoring mfg and increasing raw material production so we're not bringing so much in through the port and we can be less hypocritical about our pollution? Why is there no discussion about the reasons the interstate was built in the first place or why we decided to offshore all our mfg? Why instead are we just given a false dichotomy about the type of trucking to use rather than the alternatives?
because it would never be enough to solve the problem of port congestion in the united states
 

One-Off

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Why is there no discussion of onshoring mfg and increasing raw material production so we're not bringing so much in through the port and we can be less hypocritical about our pollution? Why is there no discussion about the reasons the interstate was built in the first place or why we decided to offshore all our mfg? Why instead are we just given a false dichotomy about the type of trucking to use rather than the alternatives?
Is this a start?


It seems to address this you have to subvert free markets and/or private industry autonomy, which might be a problem for some.
 

$kully

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I have very little knowledge of the long haul trucking industry but I would suspect the "safe driving" rules are broken quite often, especially when it comes to smaller agencies or independent contract drivers who have their own rig.

I've driven paired through the night long distances 1000+ miles a few times... after 10 or 11 PM on some major cargo roads used by longhaulers it's basically the wild west and the truckers own the road. Pedal to the metal, insane passing, etc.

It's literally exactly what meth addled-driving would look like, so I think the old tales of truckers and stimulants still hold true.



Trucker or not, nobody who drives long hauls stops to ****.

You just keep bottles or jugs and **** in them.

This is called "jugging"...if you ever do a highway cleanup you'll see tons of bottles half full of yellow liquid and jugging is why.
It’s not just about trucking, it’s also about freight, shipping and logistics. I may be wrong but there’s a reason we have a network of ports, interstates, rail lines and distribution centers all over the country. How often do you think a container is offloaded in San Pedro put on the back of a truck and driven straight to Maine? I’d be curious to see the frequency of long haul trucking vs putting containers on rails or continuing transpacific freighters through the Panama Canal to eastern ports. And once off-loaded how often do these goods only take one method of transportation from point A to point B? I'm assuming there's a lot of division of loads and rerouting at distribution centers which negates @Duffy LaCoronilla's fantasy about 2000 mile non-stop long haul truck routes.

There's a reason why the containers of the biggest freight carriers in the world like Maersk are rarely hitched up to the back of long haul rigs. They're usually headed to distribution centers within a several hundred mile radius of the port. You see a lot more trucks like this leaving ports rather than long haulers...
maersk-earns-main-1200.jpeg

Speaking of Maersk, they see the writing on the wall...

 
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Mr Doof

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Why is there no discussion of onshoring mfg and increasing raw material production so we're not bringing so much in through the port and we can be less hypocritical about our pollution?
I keep hoping the additive manufacturing (3d printing) brings back jobs. Doubt it would be enough to make up for all that was offshored through. I like to think our better environmental and safety regs would make for cleaner resource extraction but industry has always pushed back hard in the USA and our labor costs are high...both are part of the reason much of it when elsewhere. As for pollution, other countries are poisoning themselves faster than Hollywood can corrupt them;) Be great if they figured it out.

Why is there no discussion about the reasons the interstate was built in the first place or why we decided to offshore all our mfg?
No one read the fine print why Eisenhower had it built back then either and I doubt grade school bothers with it today...my school had old as dirt text books, so probably why we got taught the 'whys'.. Evac routes from cities in case of (next) war and as aid in moving military/landing for jets with side benefit for commerce. Didn't the bill to have it built stall initially?

As for offshoring the manufacturing, it isn't just one thing. Example: Schwinn bicycles had like 80+% of the bicycle market in the USA, and then lost it. Why? Not just due to cheap overseas labor, cheap overseas resources, etc, the "mountain bike" and changing consumer tastes was the one-two combo. Same with Kodak, who originally had patents on digital camera tech, but if they built them, they would screw themselves out of their stranglehold on their photochemical tech, so they got backed into a corner and now they are gone. But history shows repeating lessons....remember when the USA was the death of skilled European manufacturing after the Revolutionary War? We became their cheap labor, makers of cheap stuff they bought endlessly until, well, until it became cheaper to make elsewhere. All their later colonization was in part an effort on their part to find cheap labor and cheap resources.

Why instead are we just given a false dichotomy about the type of trucking to use rather than the alternatives?
We expanded beyond the railroad monopoly zones (which 'we the people' gave them for 'free') and then the trucking/vehicle industry started lobbying hard which had currently hobbled rail, perhaps permanently?

Lots of great questions, lots of great books written on answers to such questions, but i don't know if there is a single over-riding answer unless we can lamely accept the answer that "Money is the why these things are the way they are".
 

PRCD

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I keep hoping the additive manufacturing (3d printing) brings back jobs. Doubt it would be enough to make up for all that was offshored through. I like to think our better environmental and safety regs would make for cleaner resource extraction but industry has always pushed back hard in the USA and our labor costs are high...both are part of the reason much of it when elsewhere.
You mentioned cheap labor several times. What's driving up our labor costs? I talk to immigrants in our work force and they say that the USA is very expensive, necessitating high wages. My father and grandfather closed their sheet metal factory in Los Angeles County in the '80s despite having plenty of access to "cheap" labor which was unskilled. They had to either take on debt to automate their processes or go out of business. They chose the latter because they found compliance with labor laws and regulations very expensive. They found it difficult to compete for skilled labor against government-backed defense corporations and were limited on revenues and profits due to scale. Big, government-backed corporations have far more resources to comply with regulations and set the price of labor through monopoly.

As for pollution, other countries are poisoning themselves faster than Hollywood can corrupt them;) Be great if they figured it out.
So we've done nothing about pollution but offshore it.

No one read the fine print why Eisenhower had it built back then either and I doubt grade school bothers with it...my school had old as dirt text books, so probably why we got taught the 'whys'.. Evac routes from cities in case of (next) war and as aid in moving military/landing for jets with side benefit for commerce. Didn't the bill to have it built stall initially?
The interstate was provided multiple roads connecting the country in case some were damaged in nuclear war. They also provide runways for "strategic" bombers carrying nukes in a pinch. We worked on roads instead of rail then extended their use to logistics (tractor-trailer hauling).
As for offshoring the manufacturing, it isn't just one thing. Example: Schwinn bicycles had like 80+% of the bicycle market in the USA, and then lost it. Why? Not just due to cheap overseas labor, cheap overseas resources, etc, the "mountain bike" and changing consumer tastes was the one-two combo. Same with Kodak, who originally had patents on digital camera tech, but if they built them, they would screw themselves out of their stranglehold on their photochemical tech, so they got backed into a corner and now they are gone.
But history shows repeating lessons....remember when the USA was the death of skilled European manufacturing after the Revolutionary War?
I don't think we killed skilled European mfg. Visit the Deutsches Museum and you can see all the things Europeans invented and manufactured post-Revolutionary War. Germany remained a manufacturing powerhouse until just recently.
We became their cheap labor, makers of cheap stuff they bought endlessly until, well, until it became cheaper to make elsewhere. All their later colonization was in part an effort on their part to find cheap labor and cheap resources.
Cheap labor cheap labor cheap labor - this is a neo-liberal economic talking point. There is an extent to which that is true since scaling manufacturing often requires more people. For example, Foxconn houses 200-300k desperate people in its factory city making iPhones. However, logistics, the intelligence, work-ethic, and education of the workers, regulatory environment, capitalization matter a lot also. At the outset, the American colonies were building things like ships because they had access to old-growth oaks as well as educated, industrious people. We later moved into higher-tech manufacturing such as textiles because we grew cotton, had people, cheap land and used industrial espionage.

We expanded beyond the railroad monopoly zones (which 'we the people' gave them for 'free') and then the trucking/vehicle industry started lobbying hard which had currently hobbled rail, perhaps permanently?

Lots of great questions, lots of great books written on answers to such questions, but i don't know if there is a single over-riding answer unless we can lamely accept the answer that "Money is the why these things are the way they are".
There seems to be no political will to do anything. Mfg was certainly dying before neoliberal economics, but the latter seems to have sapped the will to do anything but increase the FIRE economy, government sector, and health sectors, the cost of which is ultimately passed down to the worker/citizen. The elites will not come up with a plan since they are bugmen.
 

Random Guy

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CNBC was had a report on a generator company that some firm was sayingto sell
The reason? Soon there’s going to be bidirectional charging.
so youll power your house from your car
Sell Generac!
 

Mr Doof

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You mentioned cheap labor several times. What's driving up our labor costs?
We live in a nation with some adherence to rule of law, and we have a lot of them (laws).

They are there, ostensibly, to make life better for the majority.

So companies have to hire people like Duffy to make sure the rules are followed because companies/people are flawed/imperfect...which is why we have laws in the first place.

This is just one easy example of things that drive up costs. ('Easy' because most people would agree with this reasoning, or so I like to believe.)

I don't think we killed skilled European mfg.
Cheap USA labor was more about damaging the British manufacturing base than the European base due to us being a colony back in the day. Even so, if you think a fair bit of USA manufacturing went to China and not European/German manufacturing, well, I am sure there are alternate views about this.

Single case in point, the Swiss friends we have who visit us yearly like to show off their Swiss brands like Mammut and then point to the 'Made in China' tag and ruefully laugh and say, "We are like you now." They're buying Levi's made in Mexico just like we are....though you can buy made in USA Levis from the main store here in SF for like $200 or so.

Cheap labor cheap labor cheap labor - this is a neo-liberal economic talking point. There is an extent to which that is true since scaling manufacturing often requires more people.

There seems to be no political will to do anything. Mfg was certainly dying before neoliberal economics, but the latter seems to have sapped the will to do anything but increase the FIRE economy, government sector, and health sectors, the cost of which is ultimately passed down to the worker/citizen. The elites will not come up with a plan since they are bugmen.
Sorry for bringing up a" neo-liberal economic talking point", but since you seem to not dispute it too much nor bring up a non-neo-liberal economic talking point, I am not sure what you are getting at by pointing that out. We got the system we got because of things that preceded us....its the way it is for a reason and it certainly can be tweaked going forward (and hopefully, this doesn't upset the apple cart too much).

In any case, I rarely think there is just one thing that makes any BIG thing happen when it comes to human systems of function. Cheap labor is a driver, but who is steering the thing, who made the thing, where is the thing going, why is it doing it, etc, etc.

Like I had said, lots of books have been written trying to answer these questions or better describe this system, and well, yeah, I don't know the best way to make sense of it all. I just know that money likes to hang out with money, and money is a variant of power, more power is better than none, and we are all competing whether we want to or not...lots of way to get to the finish line but in the end, yeah, some of us humans are going to be minced on the way.
 
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PRCD

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We live in a nation with some adherence to rule of law, and we have a lot of them.

They are there, ostensibly, to make life better for the majority.
California has the highest inequality and welfare usage in the nation along with the highest cost-of-living and schools in the bottom tier. Why isn't it working?

Like I had said, lots of books have been written trying to answer these questions or better describe this system, and well, yeah, I don't know the best way to make sense of it all. I just know that money likes to hang out with money, and money is a variant of power, more power is better than none, and we are all competing whether we want to or not...lots of way to get to the finish line but in the end, yeah, some of us humans are going to be minced on the way.
It's happening in the white collar world now, not just to the little people.

Time to get smart on real industries again, because the tide has gone out on our technological hegemony.
An American semiconductor industry expert told Asia Times, “The US government is run by people who have no idea how the industry works. You don’t need five-nanometer chips for industrial applications. A 5G handset has to process a lot of data and uses a lot of power, so the new chips are important. But what counts in an industrial process isn’t the speed of the chip as much as the quality of the software and the systems design.”
1669910622182.png
 

Mr Doof

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We live in a nation with some adherence to rule of law, and we have a lot of them (laws).

They are there, ostensibly, to make life better for the majority.
California has the highest inequality and welfare usage in the nation along with the highest cost-of-living and schools in the bottom tier. Why isn't it working?
Great question.

I tried to front run this question by using the word 'ostensibly':

1669913854353.png

Then even said:

Like I had said, lots of books have been written trying to answer these questions or better describe this system, and well, yeah, I don't know the best way to make sense of it all. I just know that money likes to hang out with money, and money is a variant of power, more power is better than none, and we are all competing whether we want to or not...lots of way to get to the finish line but in the end, yeah, some of us humans are going to be minced on the way.
All our economic systems have issues because humans are the creators, the operators, the adjustors, and recipients of the the output of such systems. Those at the top of the pile will do their best to stay there as those at the bottom do their best to improve their lot, and those between the two are, well, trying to figure how to best do both.

My own political philosophy is to (somewhat metaphorically) keep doing what I need to do to for my family to stay warm and dry during inclement weather, have some fun when I/we can, and try to help out those who are trying to help themselves. Lots of ways to do that and sometimes, it isn't pretty, but thankfully, don't have to go the non-pretty route too often.
 
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WaialuaNate

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You guys are late to the party as usual. Had 3 drayage chargers put in in LB last week in a logistics company yard. This is the near term, though the existing grid / infrastructure around LB and Port of LA is sh!t and it's gonna take a lot of work ($'s) to get it upgraded.

1669915465359.png
 
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