Bottom shape: Vee vs Concave vs flat

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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Buddy of mine is curious about the Appletree Pro Surf board.

This is a mysterious board, 2 reviews online from back in March 2020, and then not a single mention I can find anywhere.

My interest is the boat-hull extreme-vee nose. I continue to be fascinated and intrigued by the stark difference in opinion on bottom design for foil boards, between concave, flat, or vee. Some strong opinions that concaves will trap air and create suction, resisting take-off and grabbing on touchdowns. But lots of concaves out there ... either because they have a performance benefit ... or possibly they just look sexy and sell more boards. The cynic in me says this may have almost no impact either way, since we're going slow at that point that bottom design is almost irrelvant....in which case may as well go simple and flat.

The Appletree have a pronounced vee in nose, which is then drawn out right to rails -- rather than the standard chine, it's like half the board is a chine. Has anyone ridden one? Have any feedback on the Vee design, whether appletree or otherwise? The two reviews seem a little mixed on this specific point, though both the like the board for other reasons. I am not considering buying one, am thinking of experimenting on next DIY. So any input either way would be appreciated.

"That's just your Oklahoma attitude...........everyone knows that a pintail will hang better in a steep section."
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juandesooka

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Jan 12, 2009
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Thanks Hdip, that was one of the 2 reviews I saw, the other being from Real Watersports (who was pretty stoked). Beyond that....<crickets>....maybe they only made two. :socrazy:

Anyways...opening it up to be more about Vee bottoms vs flat vs concave rather than appletree specifically -- what do you think?
 

sozzle

Michael Peterson status
Feb 23, 2009
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I think sozzle has seen one or two in the flesh.?
yup a friend is repping them here, they look really good, super well made all vac bagged, insanely well finished.

the bottom shape is interesting, you'd think it would push a bit of water or be catchy/deflective but it seems to catch waves easier than any board i've ever seen, the rocker looks super low but they've used the vee/chines through teh nose to be the rocker instead of traditional 'entry' style curve up and blend.

as for touch downs and deflections, i've not seen any wild bounces to the sides from the guys riding them but i don't actually see a ton of their rides so couldn’t comment on that point fully, i was skeptical at first but i'd definitely think about doing something similar in the future when i need a fresh board.
 

juandesooka

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Jan 12, 2009
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Thanks Sozzle. I am intrigued too ... have a franken-blank nearly ready to go, was going to do a repeat of the armstrong-style big-chine-concaves ... but maybe will give this boat-hull a try. Though I suspect the answer is "I still kinda suck" no matter what the bottom profile. ;-)
 
May 15, 2017
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Heavy V definitely re directs you on touchdowns--- in an uncomfortable way
It also pushes a little water
Would be more useful in a wing foil board---- but most shapers are just doing flat bottoms or maybe a very slight V
The jury is still out on concave but my buddy seems to think his deep concave helps the board stay up in the AIR but the concave doesn't make much difference when the bottom of the board is IN the water
My two cents
Flat bottom - thin surfboard style rounded rails (not bulbous and bouncy when they hit the water) and a slight chine is what top guys are riding all over Hawaii
 
Mar 2, 2019
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"Heavy V definitely re directs you on touchdowns--- in an uncomfortable way
It also pushes a little water"


I bought a 4'8" Appletree Pro foil at 39ltrs. Was using an older 5'5" foil board with soft rails and some tail rocker of same volume. The Appletree (AP) is a much stiffer board, so that alone makes riding it feel different. I bought it after seeing this video where the rider catches an unbroken wave.
Paddle wise, it's the same as my 5'5" because both boards are mostly underwater for me at 185lbs. Take off wise, the AP needs the same paddle effort (high) to catch a wave as it breaks, so best to catch the whitewater and get pushed in. At this point, the difference is huge. The older board gives me time to settle my feet and rise onto a foil, whereas the AP jumps onto foil (Takuma LOL) and I have to be spot-on feet wise. There are no touchdown issues with the AP, but the older rounded rails track and stick enough to be felt, and dropping off foil is a large thwack!
Where I prefer the older surf derived foilboard is in bigger surf with power. Then the soft rails and tail rocker allow me to control the board before popping onto foil. So, small or gutless waves, the AP is better. The only negative effect on performance by the large v (and this might just be the flat rocker and shorter length) is that high effort paddling on an unbroken wave with weight forward causes a submarine effect. And that's what happens with a powerboat too if you over weight the front and the displacement hull pulls it down. But to say that in a foil board, one type of rail or bottom is better that another is just not accurate, unless you can compare the same outline, rocker, and volume.
Bottom line regarding the Appletree, it looks unreal in person, works great in small waves, and I'm glad I got it. But I still can't paddle into an unbroken wave nor beach start and pump out to the break...
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
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Great review, thanks for that. I am 90% done my appletree inspired board, but continuing with the thicker than normal experiment for easier paddling. 4.6x19x4. I went with V bottom and the same flat middle section as the Pro, but added a chine. We'll see how it goes soon. It is currently stuck in the painting bay, ran out of Montana Gold with 3/4 spray done, now anxiously waiting for delivery. Could just break it out as is ... but once it has wax on it, I'll never get back to finish, so must.be.patient. :)
 
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