Yeah, I guess that was kind of a rambling thread, but i see so many bigger guys riding essentially blown up versions of potato chip boards, just doesn't give them an opportunity to realize what they can do.
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Boards for bigger surfers vs smaller surfers
- Thread starter casa_mugrienta
- Start date
^^ seems like it wants to be proportionate to a certain degree, on thicker boards, if you don't let the tail increase in thickness you end up with possibly more tail rocker than you want or funky deck rocker(dip) I remember conversations with ghostshaper(20w too) about tail thickness for bigger guys and needing more to push against. I'm 175-180 but still prefer .75 as my general starting point for tail thickness. Back beveling the tail can hide it a little
I could understand you no problem 20W-50 and could either relate to, agree with from experience or personally witnessed what you are saying.
Greg , you seem to be making reference to my 3/4" tail block remark? That I am in some way "regurgitating marketing?" If so, you are so very far off the mark, simply because i have always(for better or worse) done my own thing board wise 100%. My boards are all my own brainchildren from outlines to rockers, foil, bottoms, etc...I am self taught as a shaper, and i don't regularly interact, hang out, or talk story with other shapers.I never underwent any kind of apprenticeship, it's all trail and error. In fact, I loathe marketing, simply because it's largely smoke and mirrors. Gives a false impression of accomplishment and talent with a LOT of shapers.I have my own "design knowledge", it's inevitable that certain design aspects will be employed by other shapers. If I misunderstood your remark, my apologies. I have nothing but respect for your talents.My Modern Fishes are 1" + at the tail ;-)
Everyone has been happy with that - another post and review coming
Constant regurgitation of "Marketing" as design knowledge bothers me abit
No I wasn't , sorry you took it that way .
Mr. J has so much marketing to unlearn as well as some others here .
I was going to ask if you moved from One Factory , pics looked like you are somewhere else now .
I just posted another custom where the customer notices the lift , instant speed = 0 drag
No concaves and at very low end - Florida mush
Contradicts all he has read
No concaves and at very low end - Florida mush
Contradicts all he has read
I’m 6’4”, 200 lbs and I ride a 6’4” as my regular short board (done with fishes). My volume is higher than most people - basically what you would have found in a 1980’s thruster.
I'm sorry i misunderstood you comment Greg. I moved out of One Factory about a year and a half ago. Long story, but quality went waaayyyy down. I've been in Otis' place in Kaneohe since then. First glass shop I've been in where they actually get s*ht done on time, and the place is run like an actual business instead of a hobby.
To me, it is all about stance and float. I am 5'7 and 160 (give or take 5 pounds-yeah, I've been this way for years). I'm 42 and intermediate, surfing well over 20 years but mostly east coast. I'm currently in south carolina , with folly as my home break so my daily drivers are grovlers from 5'6-5'8 , then things turn up, I can go to a 5'8 or 5'10, but past that, my stance is too narrow.
For the weakest waves of the summer (.5ft/ waist and below), I ride very high liters -33l. If above that size, to whatever a hurricane can throw at me in the southeast 30L , and still 5'8 hp. I'm in the process of ordering a 5'10 stepup at 29L and I plan to surf obx and jersey hurricanes and nor'easters with it.
For the weakest waves of the summer (.5ft/ waist and below), I ride very high liters -33l. If above that size, to whatever a hurricane can throw at me in the southeast 30L , and still 5'8 hp. I'm in the process of ordering a 5'10 stepup at 29L and I plan to surf obx and jersey hurricanes and nor'easters with it.
Minami rules their place
He was the best I worked for at BH , get it right and he's happy - no games or politics
Then they had the embezzlement and nothing for payroll , Russ K was next
IMO it can, but really only in surf with some power, which is usually balanced with outline anyway
not many negatives for me in day to day condition. I think it can support a more rearward stance
allowing you to surf off your back foot a little more
Yes of course Greg, all surfboards generate lift whether they be flat, V bottom, concave, inverted V whatever. If they didn't generate lift then our surfboards would become submarines.I just posted another custom where the customer notices the lift , instant speed = 0 drag
No concaves and at very low end - Florida mush
Contradicts all he has read
So no doesn't contradict all what I read and more importantly experienced. I will have another go at trying to get across how I think things work and I will try and do it without referring to any "high school physics".
Planing hulls have been shown to have different lift distributions using empirical measurement - not science prediction. The underneath of boats whether they be dead flat, shallow V, deep V, concaved V have a mixture of high pressure, low pressure and even suction, however overall balancing out the pressure and suction the lift is winning because the boats when going fast enough rise to the plane instead of head towards the bottom.
What the different bottom shapes do is influence where the low pressure and high pressure areas are. Naval architect Lindsay Lord towed model hulls of varying sizes, some of them loaded with instrumentation. The excerpt of the book I have read didn't say what the pressure instruments were although a look around on a boat forum thought they were diaphragm sensors. He determined that there were different distributions for different hull shapes. This was quite a long time ago, but his work was largely validated at a later date by another naval architect called Daniel Savitzky. For boats of simple shapes - panel V with chines Savitzky's work is still used today when designing them.
So what I am saying is that concave surfboard will have a different pressure (lift) distribution to a flat bottom or a V bottom and experience from riding all three has told me something. During that transition period when concaves were starting to be put into thrusters I used to get confused when riding them and trying to determine what the concave was doing, partly because different surfboards are never that all other things equal perfect comparison.
However things became clear after riding a concave when I borrowed a McCoy nugget deep rolled V to deep panel V. The roll is something like 1cm. Despite its super wide tail the nugget would tip from side to side with ease with heel toe pressure this can only mean that there was less water pressure (lift) at the rails than a concave. As to whether it had more overall lift or less overall lift than a concave I get confused thinking about that because if two board are both supporting the same weight rider then they must be generating the same lift!
Anyway after the Nugget experience I knew what to look for when comparing a flat bottom thruster with a light concave - the rail of the light concave wants to pop to the surface a bit more quickly - we could say that the there is more lift at the inside rail of a light concave or more pressure if you like or if you want to call it something else altogether - you have used the "clawing" effect - I have always said I am happy with that as long as there is some common understanding. I call it lift you call it the clawing effect. I have since come up with explanations as to why boards behave like that, but I won't go into that
Sorry to disrupt this thread but as a fellow bigger surfer that has been keenly eying this exact model, would you care to do a ride report? I am 51 6'4x225 +/- and was envisioning your exact dimensions but 6'6" for myself. Big thanks Feral Seppo!My smallest board right now is a Stu Kenson Twinzer egg. 6’4” x 22” x 3” I have a Lost Driver that is 6’6 x 21.75” x 3”. 45 or 46 L. Also have a Rusty twin fin 6’9” and 51L.
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Spot on and getting a board from larger shapers like Mayhem or Rusty is usually a bullseye
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bigger more powerful blokes need more to push against. More tail width to give more planing area will significantly achieve that. If one doesn't want to head in that direction or entirely rely on it then just maybe a deep concave will give a bit more push back. Meeks any thoughts on this, was that one of the reason's Tai Vandyke's shorty featured a deep single?
n4s, those two design choices aside as you pointed out the other way of getting more push back is with extra thickness. Just by playing with the deck control point at the tail very roughly a couple of litres can be added with about 1/2" of extra thickness 1' up from tail. Just considering the flotation effect from the volume, 2 litres supports just a bag of sugar, even a little bloke would be exerting far more downforce than that. The flotation is not significant but the extra 1/2" of thickness produces quite a different look to the rails if they are allowed to grow. So I think it is the extra rail thickness that resists burying is where the push back comes from.
Mr. J - so, the way I look at it is in terms of proportions......a thicker tail with deeper concave will behave more like a normal/thinner board, than say a thicker board with less concave.Now, having said that, Tai's 6'1"groveler" has a vastly different bottom than the 6'3". It's considerably shallower, and features panel fee with concave off the tail.But, I will say ever body is different.Tai's boards work well for him. Because they are shaped specifically for him, using files made from "magic" hand shapes. That seems to be the one fact lost in today's "ride this model at this weight and this ability level and you will shred" marketing.