You’re unhinged. Buttplug bothering your hemorrhoids?
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Biden just said if I buy an electric car I will save $80 a month on fuel costs.
- Thread starter Duffy LaCoronilla
- Start date
Mimimalist as in back to glorified golf cart size autos.
It's the only way EV's are going to get "cheaper", with the skyrocketing price of lithium battery raw materials.
But, as cheap as these are, you could just toss it away after a few years and get a new like most do with cell phones.
Lithium batteries are already 80% less expensive than they were less than a decade ago, and they continue to get cheaper. The reason EVs are expensive today is because car makers recognized early that the luxury lines would need to go first. Now that the luxury lines are set, you'll see cheaper options introduced over the next several years.Mimimalist as in back to glorified golf cart size autos.
It's the only way EV's are going to get "cheaper", with the skyrocketing price of lithium battery raw materials.
But, as cheap as these are, you could just toss it away after a few years and get a new like most do with cell phones.
It's also wrong to assume lithium batteries are here to stay. Tesla is already working on a shift to manganese and nickel.
In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.... again.
Yes, they are "shifting". But those metal combos are not as optimal compared to Li-ion in charge cycles and range. Unless they can make bigger strides in their performance overall, they'll settling to get cheaper costs. The goal is "cobalt free", but will be challenge to replace its performance overall.
There's still no real "settled" battery technology yet, and it's evolving constantly. Balancing all the different rare earth metals to get the best features of each, and still get longer charge cycles, capacity and voltages is the challenge.
Those cheapo EV's in China are huge sellers there, and outpacing all others in acceptance.
But their people don't have as much $$$ to spend on autos either. They're still trying to move up from scooters.
CCP has been buying up all the cobalt and other rare earth metal mines that make lithium. Manganese and nickel mines will be, if not already, their next big buy-up target. China is not messing around with controlling the future EV battery source market.
And, as green as they might look, they haven't given up on coal yet, either. They realize they still need instant electric energy 24/7/365.
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I’m not aware that people inhale manganese when they drive a Tesla. But thanks for the info.
The same thing that always happens - technology will have already anticipated and adapted.
None of this addresses that lithium batteries are 80% cheaper than just a few years ago and that ev’s are expensive because they’re targeted to luxury drivers for the most part, not because of battery price. There’s not a single auto maker who isn’t anticipating entry-level ev’s.
Your arguments are a bit of nirvana fallacy. Nobody thinks EVs will be perfect. Nobody thinks they have a zero carbon footprint. Nobody thinks all cars must be electric immediately. But the change is happening and all the whining in the world ain’t gunna stop it.
There is a lot of battery-tech research going on worldwide right now. It's not easy to create a battery that is efficient, long-lasting, not dangerous to people or the environment, and inexpensive to manufacture. Nevertheless, expect batteries to get better and better for the foreseeable future.
EV's as built today will evolve immensely in the next 10-20 years. Today's versions are basically the 2nd step past the Model T's in evolution comparison. We have a LONG way to go, to make sure all aspects of EV's can be sustainable in the long run.
I'm actually surprised it's taken this long. We had this technology over 20 years ago, and it's only now getting a foot in the door with the general public. High gas prices are the only thing keeping it afloat at the moment. If gas prices drop substantially, EV's will go back to being luxury look-at-me-so-green virtue signal props.
I just read a couple more or less "official" articles on the new F150 Lightning truck and it's towing range compared to non-loaded range. It a full 50% LESS range when hauling a trailer. Didn't even matter how heavy a load the trailer was, and it still was 50% less.
So, even with the more expensive ER (Extended Range) battery package that adds at least $10k to price alone, You'll be lucky to get 150 miles hauling a trailer per charge? Car And Driver says even less than 100 miles on max load. That's maybe 1-1/2 to 2 hours on the open highway between charges? That's going to make most camping trips quite a bit more challenging.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36481590/ford-f150-lightning-range-towing/
I may wait awhile before I jump at one of these EV trucks.
The rush to be eco-cool will have its drawbacks, but hey, the onboard sensors will keep you appraised of your quick draining battery.
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Electricity at a charging station by my house is $0.42/kWh. A standard Tesla 3 gets about 25kWh/100 miles. IOW the cost per 100 miles is therefore about $10.50. So a 1200 mile trip to Tahoe and back would cost me about $126 in electricity, with 2 charging stops each way and one there.
Gasoline at the Fuel Depot by my house is I think $5.69/gal. Wifey's Lezbaru gets about 27 mpg, or about 3.7 gal/100 miles. The cost per 100 miles is therefore about $21.05. A trip to Tahoe would cost me about $252 in gas, with 1 gas stop each way and 1 there.
Gasoline at the Fuel Depot by my house is I think $5.69/gal. Wifey's Lezbaru gets about 27 mpg, or about 3.7 gal/100 miles. The cost per 100 miles is therefore about $21.05. A trip to Tahoe would cost me about $252 in gas, with 1 gas stop each way and 1 there.
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But how much is your time worth? How many extra hours on the road are you willing to waste waiting for the car to charge? That’s almost like convincing yourself that driving from Jacksonville to Miami is a good idea to save $200 on a flight to Central America. Is the 11hrs in the car worth the $200 savings? Right now, my time is worth about $40/hr…
Im old enough to remember filling up the tank of my Chevy for 25 cent a gallon. I also worked in petroleum exploration half a century ago So what do I know about the price of gas? What I do know is that I’m paying more for a gallon of water that gets me nowhere and I just **** it away. Gasoline needs to be more expensive just to adequately compensate the industry that brings the product to the buyers. Taxes per gallon are too high you say? Can you think of a better way to build an maintain the roads? $2 a gallon gasoline was bankrupting drillers, refiners and transporters nationwide. Was that a good thing? I would be okay with $2 a gallon water and $5 a gallon gas, that makes sense.
EV's are not going away regardless of what gas is priced at.
Separate from any government mandate, most auto makers have started the process of shifting solely/mainly to EV's. Aside from the already all EV Rivian, Lucid, Tesla, Fisker etc., you have Bentley going all EV or hybrid by 2026. GM will be all electric by 2035. Volvo will be all EV by 2030. Ford is moving to all-EV in Europe, and Cadillac is going all EV by 2030. Honda will be selling only EV and hybrids in Europe after this year. Hyundai/Kia are investing $7.5 Billion to bring new EV's to the US, and Kia said it is targeting 25% of world sales for EV's by 2029. Jaguar is going to have EV versions of every car by 2030. Starting in 2025, any new Mercedes platform will be EV only. Toyota says it will have 70 EV models worldwide by 2025, and expects to be off ICE's by 2050.
You're correct about range, but even today it's not an issue for really anyone other than long-haulers or people looking to tow. In 10 years or so, that range issue will be solved. You may die before we hit the tipping point, but it's coming.
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