Best strength training routine? Thoughts?

VonMeister

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That is actually a really good point. Damn you, VM. :)


Below the threshold of the motor neuron that the brain concludes is dangerous + "feeling of safety" (positive context). Perfect.
Great post.
:cheers:

It's human nature to find complex solutions to complex problems. We want to touch all the bases. It's this brilliance that separates us from the primates. .....but.....The best way to treat people is to ask yourself...what would this person need to be able to do to tie their shoes, pick up a dropped pencil, get up from the dinner table, or put groceries away on a high shelf. Just have them do that in a controlled environment and they won't even notice that you cured them.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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If you're training to stay fit and to be able to surf......maybe stay away from the barbell. Just saying.
"...2,000-3,000 push-ups and sit-ups every day."

Is that what you do Hal? Seriously? That would make me tired...just counting that many reps.
 
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casa_mugrienta

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...and yoga, and CBD oils and creams, and turmeric, and debunked eastern medicine.
“And for people saying listen to the doctors, I’m positive I know more about being healthy than 99% of doctors, but I wouldn’t trust me. But most of my covid info comes directly from doctor friends, many of them in disagreement with the official ‘science’.

“I had another of many friends have horrible reaction to the vaccine just today. She thought she was dying and fears her quality of life has changed in the past few days for good. My mom also is part of those underreported stats. Other friends have literally died from it. So anyone here shaming people who are affected or concerned does nothing but feed the ego.

“When you study and talk to health professionals that deal with actual health and find out about the immune system suppression from the vaccines one day, you’ll open your mind to it."


- Kelly Slater, Instagram, 10/23/21
 
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hal9000

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If you're training to stay fit and to be able to surf......maybe stay away from the barbell. Just saying.
I'm no expert and I'm a mediocre surfer at best, but my opinion is that, if surfing is your main thing.......surf as often as possible. In addition to surfing, train for cardiovascular fitness, explosive power, plyometrics, maybe work on being somewhat flexible, and work in some strength training but don't overdo it.

There seems to be a dearth of research in the scientific literature on this topic as it applies to surfers. The research on other types of "moving" sports seems to point in the opposite direction of "do lots of weight training".


"...2,000-3,000 push-ups and sit-ups every day."

Is that what you do Hal? Seriously? That would make me tired...just counting that many reps.
no, but maybe I should so I could stop being such a fatso. I'd also have to get a palm clicker or something just to keep track.
 
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One-Off

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There seems to be a dearth of research in the scientific literature on this topic as it applies to surfers. The research on other types of "moving" sports seems to point in the opposite direction of "do lots of weight training".
Care to share any of this research? I haven't seen it.
 

VonMeister

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I don't even know what pilates is other than some workout that Mick Fanning does.

Where did you get your training credentials?
Pilaties is the latest way of training people who are unwilling to put forth even a mediocre effort. You lie on a rolling device and do less than body weight exercises. It's the Babylon Bee of strength and conditioning......but people will buy anything new because new is always better.


There's no such thing as training credentials. There's experience, reputation and references.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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I'm actually doing some reading now on Google scholar and pubmed right now so I'll share what I've learned.


Also, if and when I'm wrong, I'll fully cop to it and provide references.
I can't imagine scientists would have much interest in surfing. It's a niche sport. Unless the scientist is a surfer himself. But then I wouldn't trust him. Surfers tend to have a pretty one track mind. :waving:

 
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PRCD

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I'm actually doing some reading now on Google scholar and pubmed right now so I'll share what I've learned.
Please don't. You're neither numerate nor data literate nor a weightlifter nor a surfer.

Also, if and when I'm wrong, I'll fully cop to it and provide references.
Get off this thread. Weightlifting is not for effeminate transmen.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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Pilaties is the latest way of training people who are unwilling to put forth even a mediocre effort. You lie on a rolling device and do less than body weight exercises. It's the Babylon Bee of strength and conditioning......but people will buy anything new because new is always better.


There's no such thing as training credentials. There's experience, reputation and references.
I thought Starting Strength had a pretty rigorous qualification process for its trainers. I think you mentioned the biomechanical apsect was "college level."
 

VonMeister

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I thought Starting Strength had a pretty rigorous qualification process for its trainers. I think you mentioned the biomechanical apsect was "college level."
It's Starting Strength specific. Anyone who holds it I would consider a good coach. I don't do or teach the Starting Strength method. I don't think there's anything wrong with it but I'm on a parallel path.
 

hal9000

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I can't imagine scientists would have much interest in surfing. It's a niche sport. Unless the scientist is a surfer himself. But then I wouldn't trust him. Surfers tend to have a pretty one track mind. :waving:


True. There's some literature out there but nothing really to build a consensus on. A few studies cited strength training, coupled with paddling endurance training, as an indicator of better performance, but they don't all use the same types of strength training. One of the papers I read just talk about pull-ups and dips as the maximal strength training regimen. My takeaway is that cardio, muscular endurance, speed, plyometrics, and some strength training are all helpful, but lifting heavy may not be all that helpful.

This could be an emerging and interesting field of study for someone entering a PhD program, and I'd bet that the Australians and Brazilians are way ahead of us in this research.

Another paper published this month laments the lack of publications in the scientific literature that related training methods to wave-riding performance. https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/abstract/9000/training_methods_in_the_sport_of_surfing__a.99149.aspx



These were interesting too:


 

VonMeister

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True. There's some literature out there but nothing really to build a consensus on. A few studies cited strength training, coupled with paddling endurance training, as an indicator of better performance, but they don't all use the same types of strength training. One of the papers I read just talk about pull-ups and dips as the maximal strength training regimen. My takeaway is that cardio, muscular endurance, speed, plyometrics, and some strength training are all helpful, but lifting heavy may not be all that helpful.
What is lifting heavy? Do you know? Does the pretend article that you pretend exists explain what lifting heavy is?
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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True. There's some literature out there but nothing really to build a consensus on. A few studies cited strength training, coupled with paddling endurance training, as an indicator of better performance, but they don't all use the same types of strength training. One of the papers I read just talk about pull-ups and dips as the maximal strength training regimen. My takeaway is that cardio, muscular endurance, speed, plyometrics, and some strength training are all helpful, but lifting heavy may not be all that helpful.

This could be an emerging and interesting field of study for someone entering a PhD program, and I'd bet that the Australians and Brazilians are way ahead of us in this research.

Another paper published this month laments the lack of publications in the scientific literature that related training methods to wave-riding performance. https://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/abstract/9000/training_methods_in_the_sport_of_surfing__a.99149.aspx



These were interesting too:


That first paper states what VM as been saying all along- "Maximal strength training of the upper-body and high-intensity and sprint-interval paddling demonstrated effectiveness for improving paddling performance; however, unstable surface training was ineffective.

Maximal strength = effective
unstable surface training = "stupid human tricks"

The second article had zero information.

The third analyzed 17 year olds which I feel has little application for me, a 60 year old.

The studies trying to quantify surfing performance seem kind of silly.


I'm beginning to understand there is no surf specific training...except surfing. Just train for generla conditioning. I will prioritize cardio for personal reasons but have added a strength component. Today I did my first strength session while supplementing with creatine. I read about 25 articles and got my cardiologist's green light before popping the pill.
 

hal9000

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That first paper states what VM as been saying all along- "Maximal strength training of the upper-body and high-intensity and sprint-interval paddling demonstrated effectiveness for improving paddling performance; however, unstable surface training was ineffective.

Maximal strength = effective
unstable surface training = "stupid human tricks"

The second article had zero information.

The third analyzed 17 year olds which I feel has little application for me, a 60 year old.

The studies trying to quantify surfing performance seem kind of silly.


I'm beginning to understand there is no surf specific training...except surfing. Just train for generla conditioning. I will prioritize cardio for personal reasons but have added a strength component. Today I did my first strength session while supplementing with creatine. I read about 25 articles and got my cardiologist's green light before popping the pill.
true, but none of the papers I've read seem to agree on what "'maximal strength" is. Some just talk about pull-ups and dips, some work in barbell training but at like 50-55% 1RM.

yeah, I don't think anything can really mimic surfing, but taking care of yourself and keeping fit will allow you to keep surfing.
I think you've got the right idea, training and still getting after a goal, whatever type of training you do, when most dudes at 60 already gave up years ago. good for you and keep after it.

:cheers::shaka::beer:
 
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VonMeister

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true, but none of the papers I've read seem to agree on what "'maximal strength" is. Some just talk about pull-ups and dips, some work in barbell training but at like 50-55% 1RM.

yeah, I don't think anything can really mimic surfing, but taking care of yourself and keeping fit will allow you to keep surfing.
I think you've got the right idea, training and still getting after a goal, whatever type of training you do, when most dudes at 60 already gave up years ago. good for you and keep after it.

:cheers::shaka::beer:
I've mentioned it before...in my experience if a male trainee can do a 5 rep set @275 and does that a couple times per week for the rest of his life he's generally strong enough for to mitigate most casual sport injuries and live full healthy life. That's not to say getting stronger than that shouldn't be a goal if it's something you enjoy but the benefits to general physical wellbeing begin to be impacted to a lesser degree. At some point as you keep gaining strength there's going to be a point (well past 275) where your body is going to begin to have trouble maintaining strength and recovering from training while still being peak functional for surfing.

Also, with regards to 50-55% 1RM. I can train you at 50-55% 1RM and bring your deadlift or squat capability to over 500 pounds. Every time you train this 50-55% number will generally increase even if you are training below it. Using arbitrary numbers is silly and whoever wrote that is stupid. Training stress is training stress and it will make you stronger over time. All a specific lift number or a percentage of that number is, is a display of the strength you acquired over time due to doses of stress and the subsequent strength adaptations from recovery.
 
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LifeOnMars

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I just want to have strong joints and be protected from injury.

Who can teach me how to do this?

I just need someone to show me the exercises and watch my form for a few sessions I think.

Not interested in getting swole.
these weights look right up your alley

try not to throw that hip out again, remember to take it slow and easy

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