Best strength training routine? Thoughts?

slipped_disc

Michael Peterson status
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The only surf-related benefits for lifting id guess are restoring balance in your body (surfing twists you all up) and stimulating a modest amount of ligament growth for resiliency.

I dont think strength has much to do with surfing.
 
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One-Off

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The only surf-related benefits for lifting id guess are restoring balance in your body (surfing twists you all up) and stimulating a modest amount of ligament growth for resiliency.

I dont think strength has much to do with surfing.
Injury prevention? General all around fitness. Quality of life in old age. Counteracting sarcopenia. These all contribute to the ability to surf (not necessarily ability to surf well).

Happy new year to all. Going now to lose money in our annual poker game.
 
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slipped_disc

Michael Peterson status
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Injury prevention? General all around fitness. Quality of life in old age. Counteracting sarcopenia. These all contribute to the ability to surf (not necessarily ability to surf well).

Happy new year to all. Going now to lose money in our annual poker game.
Ya. Agree with your assessment for the mid-30s and up crowd. I should have clarified that I’m only speaking about the young pros lifting light weights that were referenced above.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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"lifting" is good for surfing if we are not surfing for some reason or another. Once high frequency regular surf sessions are established, then lifting is going to interfere with surfing and even be counter-productive to injury prevention - attempting to do a high energy bottom turn the day after a heavy squat session is either asking for a sub-optimal surf session from a performance point of view or even worse risk over use injury.

Young elite athletes typically have an unusually high capacity for exercise - a Russian former colleague told me that when he was training for the Russian olympic team (he missed making the team) he was training 6 hours a day. Nat Young (the new Nat Young from Santa Cruz) said in a youtube interview that he surfed up to 6-8 hrs a day (when he was younger). We aren't young and elite.

The one thing we have in common with most veteran pro surfers is that we have acquired an injury. The nature of the injury will be very individual specific (Jordy Smith was out for a year with a bad back, JJF knee trouble etc). They would employ top physios to help them re-hab and also injury prevent as maintenance once past the re-hab phase. Whatever they get prescribed will be very specific to their condition - so "best" injury/strength training regimen is a bit like "best diet" - one man's meat another man's poison.

The only commonality between myself and top pros is that I have employed the services of a top physio to re-hab and maintain my shoulders. I am on a permanent strength maintenance routine. I'm still on holiday in Thailand right now and I brought half of my strength equipment with me. I do what my shoulder physio tells me - its not what most people here call "lifting". The primary routine is hitting every rotator cuff muscle (all 4 of them), every other day for 2 sets of 20 reps. I typically aim to do 2 rotators one day and 2 the other day (both shoulders) - this only takes about 10 or 15 minutes! Some serious primary muscle strength from lats, delts pecs would no doubt be good for surfing, but if they overpowered the little rotator cuffs then that's bad for me. The primary strength muscles do play a role in keeping the shoulder socket in place, but in isolation exert uneven force on the ball socket joint and will pull the ball to one edge of the labrum socket ring or the other. The rotator cuffs play a more direct role in keeping the forces on the joint even. I therefore need reserve strength in my rotators if longevity and injury prevention is my main goal. Brute strength wave catching power would be nice to have, but its well down on my importance list compared to my longevity goals.

My rotators are trained with elastic bands. I do have a very light dumbbell outward rotator exercise (1.5 KG) and there are two primary muscle exercises prescribed which needs heavier dumbbells (shrugs and bent dumbbell rows), but I doubt anyone here would consider 4KG and occasionally 5KG dumbbells "lifting". The emphasis is on a very specific shoulder blade and clavicle movement rather than serious strength - this is the weight prescribed by the physio. This paltry weight does not make me sore at all and appears to have no interference with my typical 10 sessions a week surfing schedule.

During my length recovery from shoulder surgery last year I felt the need to have something physical to focus on and I set myself the goal of being able to do pistol squats by the 6 month shoulder recovery mark. I was doing the full depth but making it assisted by resting my good arm (and later recovering arm) on a small plastic step, eventually I needed only light fingertip assistance and I think its possible I could have reached my goal - but I didn't. What happened is that at the 5 month mark I started my pop-up retraining (white water/reform takeoffs with staggered hand position) on my stoogie (standup boog). Standing tall like on a proper surfboard needs the right sort of wave, so to keep a stoogie going there is a lot of low squatting involved - I could feel the strain on my knees with the pistol squat training so I stopped the pistol squats, because I felt like I was risking injury. A sports scientist colleagues' hobby is body building, occasionally surfing and he is all round athletic - he told me that he did a squat session one day, then played a soccer match the second day - his hip has never been the same since :( My stoogie is more fun and I'm still using it fairly regularly, so unless I have another prolonged period out of the water I'm not going to restart the pistol squat training - having said that I think the squats were a great thing to do and made transitioning to surfing easier on the body.

I must be boring everybody with this long post, happy new year everyone!
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
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100 push ups a day 4 x 25
surf everyday
I'm very impressed, not everyone has your capacity. I met a former neighbour of mine a couple of months ago. He told me his shoulder had been farked for one year - he did it "push up challenge training". He saw a physio who said his shoulder was just "wasting away". I told him that thankfully I was over my problems and my shoulders were feeling great and I told him a bit about the clinic I went to. He used to see me with elastics in the back yard. I got a text message from him just before Christmas - he wanted to know which clinic I used. I hope he is on the path to recovery. He is a mainly weekend surfer and builder used to heaving things around so not weak.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
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Not sure what JJF was doing before his injury. What he did afterward reads like a typical advertisement for his surgeon and PT guru. I'm pretty skeptical of PT gurus:

I don't know if squatting would've helped him avoid the injury.

I love Machado's style also.
looks good to me. All bodyweight one legged and lunge stuff. That was 4 years ago, I suppose we don't know what he does now?

Interesting version of the assisted one legged squat using a doorway. I hadn't thought of that. The instructions say squat to parallel so not a full depth pistol squat although the artists impression of JJF shows the subject going lower than that.

When I was trying to build up to pistol squats while recovering from shoulder surgery I first started to do partial depth unassisted one legged squats with the hope that I could gradually build up the strength to go lower and lower until I could go right to the floor - after a few weeks I realised I was never going to get there doing that. It wasn't until I started a different assisted approach using a step that I started to make rapid, albeit assisted progress where I was able to reduce the amount of assistance needed over a period of months.

What I did was to go right down using a hand on a step for assistance, release the hand at the bottom of the squat and balance for a few seconds with my other leg out in front of me . Then push up out of the squat using the hand for assistance again. I am going to be out of the water for a few days while travelling home to the coast, so decided to try some today using one hand on a sofa - not too bad considering I haven't done them for a while.
 
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PRCD

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looks good to me. All bodyweight one legged and lunge stuff. That was 4 years ago, I suppose we don't know what he does now?

Interesting version of the assisted one legged squat using a doorway. I hadn't thought of that. The instructions say squat to parallel so not a full depth pistol squat although the artists impression of JJF shows the subject going lower than that.

When I was trying to build up to pistol squats while recovering from shoulder surgery I first started to do partial depth unassisted one legged squats with the hope that I could gradually build up the strength to go lower and lower until I could go right to the floor - after a few weeks I realised I was never going to get there doing that. It wasn't until I started a different assisted approach using a step that I started to make rapid, albeit assisted progress where I was able to reduce the amount of assistance needed over a period of months.

What I did was to go right down using a hand on a step for assistance, release the hand at the bottom of the squat and balance for a few seconds with my other leg out in front of me . Then push up out of the squat using the hand for assistance again. I am going to be out of the water for a few days while travelling home to the coast, so decided to try some today using one hand on a sofa - not too bad considering I haven't done them for a while.
The more I read about PT, the more useless I think it is. Use of bands is one example. I suppose they’re something you can send home with the patient but they’re far easier at the end range of the eccentric motion so they minimize the training effect. Further studies show that increased numbers of PT sessions don’t benefit the patient. Personal experience has taught me they’re about 20-30 years behind in pain science except the NOI group in Oz and it’s affiliates.

To the extent any of the above described works, it’s just graded exposure to end ranges of motion. Ben Patrick (who is not a PT) currently has the best program for this.

Edit: I just read the Men’s Health article above and it’s gimmicky and useless. The PT quotes doesn’t know anything about strength. Those Bosu exercises have proven to be useless. Putting a barbell of his back and making him squat would’ve been far more effective.
 
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casa_mugrienta

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The more I read about PT, the more useless I think it is.
It helped me

You should see the difference between the post op patients who do what their PT tells them to do and those that don't. It's enormous.


Use of bands is one example. I suppose they’re something you can send home with the patient but they’re far easier at the end range of the eccentric motion so they minimize the training effect.
Agree, but free weights are expensive and in some cases not practical as many patients are poor or on fixed income.

Personally I like them only when I'm traveling, but on long trips I will buy free weights. I have disposable income though.

Further studies show that increased numbers of PT sessions don’t benefit the patient.
I can see that

Probably depends on the patient and the injury too
 

GromsDad

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The only surf-related benefits for lifting id guess are restoring balance in your body (surfing twists you all up) and stimulating a modest amount of ligament growth for resiliency.

I dont think strength has much to do with surfing.
For me its been about keeping active and building strength that I took for granted when I was in my 20s 30s and 40s. Living in NJ there is a lot of down time between swells so you have to do other things to stay in shape.
 

One-Off

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looks good to me. All bodyweight one legged and lunge stuff. That was 4 years ago, I suppose we don't know what he does now?

Interesting version of the assisted one legged squat using a doorway. I hadn't thought of that. The instructions say squat to parallel so not a full depth pistol squat although the artists impression of JJF shows the subject going lower than that.

When I was trying to build up to pistol squats while recovering from shoulder surgery I first started to do partial depth unassisted one legged squats with the hope that I could gradually build up the strength to go lower and lower until I could go right to the floor - after a few weeks I realised I was never going to get there doing that. It wasn't until I started a different assisted approach using a step that I started to make rapid, albeit assisted progress where I was able to reduce the amount of assistance needed over a period of months.

What I did was to go right down using a hand on a step for assistance, release the hand at the bottom of the squat and balance for a few seconds with my other leg out in front of me . Then push up out of the squat using the hand for assistance again. I am going to be out of the water for a few days while travelling home to the coast, so decided to try some today using one hand on a sofa - not too bad considering I haven't done them for a while.
Hi Mr. J. Happy New Year. :waving: Could to hear you're rehabbing pretty well.

Pistol squats. When I first started my back rehab journey I was surprised to find my then 16 year old niece (and my little sister then 50) had the full rack and barbell set. She was on the high school tennis team at the time. The other day, Christmas Eve, I asked her if she was still lifting? She said yes, and out of curiosity I asked her how much she squats and she said she didn't do barbell squats. She did pistol squats and proceeded to do a few reps. I tried. It seems to me much more about balance and mobility. And strength. Extremely difficult. I can't do them.

I settled on the barbell because of what Von Meister (and research) said- that to build strength the barbell was the most efficient way. I kind of hate doing it. It is literally taking medicine for me, but it's almost 5 years now that I religiously do a 1-1/2 hour session once a week.

It has become a maintenance routine now. I've long since stopped progressing. My strategy was to do the lifts, increase volume until could do 3x10 and not get sore (DOMS). Then I would add weight and start with 3x5. If I got sore I would not increase. When I didn't get sore I would add volume working back up to 3x10. I've got to a point where I would always get sore and after months never adapted enough to avoid DOMS, which as you said earlier, negatively affects surfing ability. That's where I'm at.

I'm pretty happy with my routine right now- one 13 mile (+-) zone 2 heart rate run, one 10k with 4x4 intervals max heart rate run, and one day of barbell, each once a week. That and a daily morning stretch routine that ends with one set of pushups to failure (now up to 45, occasionally 50 on a good day). Each of the three workouts is pretty taxing so I try (but can't always) have a rest day in between. Also only with the barbell day will I feel a negative effect if I delay it- wait ten days instead of a week and I pay a price. Every day I'm late increases the DOMS.

Oh and one last thing I do is when I brush my teeth I do a calf raise with one leg while holding the other with the knee as high up to my chest as I can, alternating legs. The longer I can hold the position the cleaner my teeth get. :jamon: Then I do an isometric wall squat while rinsing my my mouth with mouth wash. The longer the squat the fresher my breath. :cheers:

Oh and hollow holds while lying on the floor watching TV. So at least as I'm becoming an idiot I will develop some abs. :roflmao:
 
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slipped_disc

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For me its been about keeping active and building strength that I took for granted when I was in my 20s 30s and 40s. Living in NJ there is a lot of down time between swells so you have to do other things to stay in shape.
I'm with you. My comment was poorly worded. It was only meant to reference 20-something year old pros that were listed above. Once you reach the age where muscle mass starts deteriorating — which can be as early as mid 30s IIRC — strength training becomes a requirement and the benefits increase significantly.
 
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slipped_disc

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I surfed with a 59-year old around Thanksgiving time who blasted an air at this peaky beach break. When I complimented it, he was appreciative, but said that he had done the best air of his life (he called it his "Slater air") just hours earlier. I picked his brain on what he does to stay shredding. Here's what he had to say:

- Do a ton of cardio
- Surf often
- Lift light with high reps on days he's not surfing
- Stretch lightly, and only after you're thoroughly warmed up via exercise (as opposed to hot yoga which he explicitly called out). He said that he messed his body up stretching too much and too hard in his 40s.

He also surfs with his kids a ton who absolutely rip, and I imagine helps a ton.
 

PRCD

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Hi Mr. J. Happy New Year. :waving: Could to hear you're rehabbing pretty well.

Pistol squats. When I first started my back rehab journey I was surprised to find my then 16 year old niece (and my little sister then 50) had the full rack and barbell set. She was on the high school tennis team at the time. The other day, Christmas Eve, I asked her if she was still lifting? She said yes, and out of curiosity I asked her how much she squats and she said she didn't do barbell squats. She did pistol squats and proceeded to do a few reps. I tried. It seems to me much more about balance and mobility. And strength. Extremely difficult. I can't do them.
This is why I doubt any PT programming them, which John John’s PT apparently did. I could see giving bodyweight exercises to an athlete that travels all the time - I do them when I travel. However I wouldn’t program ones like the pistol squat that are extremely technique and body segment-dependent. I’d program Nordic curls and Reverse Nordic Curls instead. Also, most hotels have dumbbells so you can do Bulgarian split squats or stomp squats. This is why I complain about PTs - most aren’t strong and don’t know anything about exercise selection so they shouldn’t be training patients for strength. As @casa_mugrienta said, they seem to be good for acute recovery but almost anything works in the acute phase.
 
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I surfed with a 59-year old around Thanksgiving time who blasted an air at this peaky beach break. When I complimented it, he was appreciative, but said that he had done the best air of his life (he called it his "Slater air") just hours earlier. I picked his brain on what he does to stay shredding. Here's what he had to say:

- Do a ton of cardio
- Surf often
- Lift light with high reps on days he's not surfing
- Stretch lightly, and only after you're thoroughly warmed up via exercise (as opposed to hot yoga which he explicitly called out). He said that he messed his body up stretching too much and too hard in his 40s.

He also surfs with his kids a ton who absolutely rip, and I imagine helps a ton.
this might be the way
 
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One-Off

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I surfed with a 59-year old around Thanksgiving time who blasted an air at this peaky beach break. When I complimented it, he was appreciative, but said that he had done the best air of his life (he called it his "Slater air") just hours earlier. I picked his brain on what he does to stay shredding. Here's what he had to say:

- Do a ton of cardio
- Surf often
- Lift light with high reps on days he's not surfing
- Stretch lightly, and only after you're thoroughly warmed up via exercise (as opposed to hot yoga which he explicitly called out). He said that he messed his body up stretching too much and too hard in his 40s.

He also surfs with his kids a ton who absolutely rip, and I imagine helps a ton.
This is basically what I do, but now I cannot surf that often. Example today I surfed and (as is now routine) the back and neck shoulder are sore. If I surfed tomorrow it'd be that much worse and now I never surf three days in a row.
 
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