Best spot to buy blanks (LA area)?

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Hello all,

Unfortunately, I have to move myself and the family to Fresno to take care of the folks. I'm going to seriously miss the ocean and surfing in the lovely South Bay, but family is priority. Since I won't be able to surf as much, I wanted to get into shaping to keep my stoke going. I live in an apartment now but will be moving back home to a house w/ a shed and backyard, so I'll finally have some space to try shaping out. Any recommendations to pick up some basic tools and blanks? I've done a bit of research myself with FoamEZ and Shaper Supply but if anybody knows someone that sells them a bit cheaper or has some slightly dinged up ones for discount, please let me know. I'd like to shape with EPS, because it's more environmentally friendly but I've read that they're difficult to shape with. I applied a few times the last few months for a job at the Lemoore Slater Wave Pool but haven't gotten a response lol

Thank you!
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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I patronize Surf Supply (aka Fiberglass Source), which has outlets in Oceanside and Gardena.

https://fiberglasssource.com/

They roll and wrap your fiberglass purchases so they don't get creases, they have all the gear for shaping and glassing, an extensive selection of pigments and paints, and their 1.5 gallon epoxy kits are like half the cost of some of their competitors. It's good epoxy, too.

They even have the vacuum bagging and some of the more advanced composites, if you ever get that far into it.

As for blanks being expensive, that's mostly on the manufacturer's end. I don't think these wholesalers are marking them up much. The few dollars you save on an EPS blank you end up paying for in time and hassle trying to get your shape as clean as the PU blanks. The reason you do EPS isn't cost, it's because you want the properties of EPS in your board.

If you glass at home, do yourself and your neighbors a favor and learn epoxy. A 1.5 gallon kit of epoxy will easily do 2 shortboards if you only mix what you use. Buy a cheap digital kitchen scale at Target and measure your resins by weight for the foolproof approach; then you don't need to buy "measuring cups", and you'll be able to mix really small quantities for ding repairs and minor fills and such without wasting a lot or getting your ratios wrong because you're using your eyeball on a measuring cup.

Epoxy cleans up with vinegar, which isn't toxic like acetone and costs like 1/3 the price of acetone. I buy sleeves of plastic drinking cups from Smart-n-Final for like $.10 each, and can use one multiple times because I'm weighing my resin, not eyeballing a measuring cup.

Your costs include these other consumables (and your waste) , so don't get too caught up in looking only at blanks and resin and cloth.
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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P.S., the most environmentally friendly surfboard is the one that lasts long enough to not require replacement. Build them well, using good materials, and treat them well so they don't get banged up in transit or baked out in the sun. The dirtiest build imaginable on a surfboard that lasts is way cleaner than the 2 "eco" builds that together won't last as long.

Epoxy is a much better resin and when used with a vinegar clean up will produce way less VOCs than PE and acetone. You can't even smell it before it sets up until you get within 5ft of it, and once it sets it's chemistry is basically done - it won't continue to offgas for weeks during a final cure the way PE does.
 

jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
10,042
8,981
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Central California
Sorry to hear you have to move Rattimus, but good on ya for taking care of your folks.

Hope to see some Rattimus shapes posted on here :cheers:
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Thanks GDaddy for your amazing advice! I'm definitely going to visit Fiberglass Source in Gardena. Had no idea it was so close by. Any recommendations for a PU blank for a fish? I totally agree with the most environmentally friendly board being the one that lasts the longest. I have a Gary McNeill and Ryan Burch fish that are both PU and are built rock solid. I think I'm going to go your recommended route of buying a PU blank with epoxy resin. I do like the feeling of epoxy and have always wanted to shape a classic fish design in epoxy to make it a bit lighter and easier to throw around on smaller days.
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Thanks Jake for all the advice as well and for hooking me up. I knew I wouldn't be able to paddle the Evo once I moved so I had to sell it :( I'm gonna be working on a few projects, maybe possibly starting up a surf brand in Fresno :cool: and shaping as well, so I'd love to still keep connected! I'm just gonna try whatever I can to stay connected with surfing and the lifestyle, even in the sticks.
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
29,238
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RattimusB said:
Thanks GDaddy for your amazing advice! I'm definitely going to visit Fiberglass Source in Gardena. Had no idea it was so close by. Any recommendations for a PU blank for a fish? I totally agree with the most environmentally friendly board being the one that lasts the longest. I have a Gary McNeill and Ryan Burch fish that are both PU and are built rock solid. I think I'm going to go your recommended route of buying a PU blank with epoxy resin. I do like the feeling of epoxy and have always wanted to shape a classic fish design in epoxy to make it a bit lighter and easier to throw around on smaller days.
IMO traditional fishies work well with some weight. The flex argument is out anyway because of the thickness-length ratios. Just add a little more cloth to your glassing schedule and it'll turn out with a comparable weight and glide - but without of the fragility. You won't panic every time you bump a rail on your door. If you were to do an epoxy/pu layup with 6x6+6oz that board might last you for as long as you would be willing to surf it. You'd never get spider cracks on the deck like usually happens over time with the heavy PU/PE layups and you'd only get a limited amount of deck dents. Particularly if you laid the deckpatch at an angle instead of in line along the stringer.

For blanks, it depends on your lengths and how flat you want your's to be. The last actual fish I did was 5-4, so I ordered a U.S. Blanks 5-10RP with -1/2" nose rocker and took the shape out of the middle. I ended up with 3.25" in the nose and 1.5" in the tail - which is real flat. Had I gone longer in the length I would have tweaked the stock rocker a little more with up to -1" in the nose and maybe played around a little with the placement on the blank. But never more than a little with that blank because it was designed by Rich Pavel for fishies, and that guy knows his fishes.

Unless you want to cut your own rockers (which I generally don't) what you want to do with blanks is to plan for your finished length and rockers and then scheme on which blanks and which available rocker combos will get you there. Then you can just follow the bottom rocker to get your thickness and leave the deck rocker more/less alone except to tune the foil at the nose and tail. There are other ways to handle it, but they require more skill than I have. And besides, I generally stick to a flat bottom contour with a little vee in the tail anyway so I'm not trying to create speed boxes or venturi channels.
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
I have a 4'10 Ryan Burch classic fish (not the side-cut squit) that I ride that's fairly low rocker but want something similar in size but a bit more rocker in the nose for steeper drops. Maybe the US Blanks 5'10 RP and cut it more from the nose? But that means the tail rocker will be lower, right? For something that small, 4'10-5'0, would the 5'10 be functional?

I get what you mean by figuring out the finished length and rocker. I'll probably have to take some measurements of the Burch and get an idea. I just imagine with smaller boards, it's harder to find a blank that would work. I don't think I'll be doing anything too weird with the bottom either, I'd like to start simple.

Do you recommend glassing on fins vs fin systems for beginner shapers? I have a few fin templates that I like.
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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I normally like to plan where the apex of the rocker hits the shape.

This is a tangent, but I'll go there anyway to illustrate my point. I've been following a wide-point-back trend for most of my personal boards for the last few years, so with those the wide point of the template will be behind center. On my last midlength the wide point was 4" behind center, so that's where I put the apex of the rocker. Meaning, I had comparatively more curve in my tail rocker and less curve in the nose rocker relative to a board with the same endpoints but centered on the blank. This was a "pig" type shape that I surf from the tail, not a nose rider, so I had use for more curve in the tail and less in the nose.

The 5-10RP was designed for fishies, so I'd want to center my template on the blank so as to leave the rocker in place, any adjustments to the rocker being made at the ends. With a 4-10 length (which I personally think is a little too short for a traditional fish) coming out of a 5-10 blank you're taking 12" off the length, which with the stock rocker and leaving the template in the middle nets 1.15" in the tail and 2.5/8" in the nose. You can add more nose rocker just by cutting it in, but at 6" from the nose that thickness is 1.11/16", so you can only add a bit more than an inch. If you need more than that much nose rocker then that calls for having the factor add it to the blank, like +1/2" or so.

Personally, I'd just leave the blank alone and cut the extra curve in the nose rocker but that's still a lot of curve going on in such a short length. Plus, at 4-10 you don't really need much rocker. If you're surfing the board in conditions that are too steep for that stock rocker then (IMO) the shorter length isn't really doing anything for you other than slowing you down anyway. Adding a little more length to the template flattens the curve in the template and adds to the drive at the rail.

As for fin systems they're all good these days. Just go with the ones that fit your most likely suspects among the fins you have. Personally, I just glass mine in these days because I know what I want to use and where I want them, and glass-ons are way cheaper. Actually, I don't glass them ON the board so much as glass them INTO the board.

You can't see it, but the base of these fins extend 1" or more into the foam. I routed a slot into the finished board and glassed them into the slot. The back of that board will tear off before these fins come out.




Obviously, making your own fins and doing a rout-in install is another subject entirely. But the point remains that if you know what fins you want and where you want to put them then glassing them on saves money, because fin systems start at $7/box and the fins that go in those boxes will cost more, too. The above pic is a set of G-10 fins, and my total cost for fins and install was less than $30. Plus a bunch of time.
 

jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
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Central California
Awsome info GDaddy, and that rout-in install is :facelick:

Rattimus, if you ever need rocker numbers for a 4'10, I have them off my GMM2. It's not a fish, but the rocker works very well (for me at least).
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Yes, seriously, I've learned so much from you. Might be smarter to add a few inches to the board and go with the stock rocker as you recommend. The rout-in installs look solid. I'm not sure if I'll go that route but it's good to know that's an option. I'll have to update you as I go with this project!

JKB, for sure, I'd love to have them whenever you get the time. I'll need to record all this info moving forward. I don't surf anything too steep, so as long as it can handle most waves around here.
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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Meh, half of the magic of DIY boards is that you're doing what you want to do, so above all - do that. The board will surf according to its strengths and weaknesses, so you'll adapt and that adaptation will figure into your style going forward.

With shaping and glassing, look around at how other people do things and plan your process based on what you think you can pull off. It's not so much what they can do that you're looking for, but what you can do - what will work best for you.

What I don't recommend is attempting to mimic the 20-minute shapes and the 8-minute laminations that the pros do in their vids. They've acquired those skills over hundreds and thousands of boards. As a newer recruit you'll want to do more planning and go slower and use techniques that are more beginner friendly. Write your plan down in advance, even.

Fin systems will work fine so long as you're mindful about how much stress the fins you're using are putting on the install. Small fins are no problem but big fins put a lot of stress on the box and on the surrounding foam supporting the box.
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Yea, I'll definitely have to balance that as I start out. Keeping to the basics but also to add a bit of my own personal take on it. I probably won't have too many opportunities to test each board out but I'm sure it'll be an amazing feeling getting to ride it.

I've seen a lot of tutorials on YouTube and they do make it seem really quick and easy, but I'll take my time. I'll probably have lots of it when I move up there haha I'll make sure to write the steps down before I start.
 

ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
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I recommend that you figure out your rocker numbers and look at the blank catalogs from the big companies. The catalogs list the rocker numbers on each blank in 1' increments, so that you can figure out how your numbers will fit in, based on your length. Even if your supply place doesn't have the blank in stock, you can have them order it, and it should come w/in a week.

You can also download boardcad for free and play w/ your rockers. As someone starting out, I would want to be as close as possible to the blank's existing bottom rocker as possible.

Good luck, and take your time.
 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Thanks ghostshaper! Alright, I'll email US Blanks to see what they recommend for shaping a fish around 5'0 with the rocker numbers I decide upon. I'm going to measure the Burch and JKB is helping me with some TOMO #'s. I agree, I shouldn't mess around with the existing rocker, so I'll take my time and keep it simple. I'll definitely update this post in the future.

For all the shaping tools, should I just go with whatever Fiberglass Source recommends? Is there anything on this page that I don't need: https://fiberglasssource.com/collections/shaping-tools

The calipers seem a little pricey but it's probably worth it? I'm probably going to pass on the planer for now unless everyone thinks it's vital? I'm looking to spend around $300-400 to start.
 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
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You don't need to spend a lot of money on tools.


If I were starting over again and I was on a budget, I'd buy

- Transparent plastic ruler
- metal carpenter's square
- 10" sureform (the one with the pistol grip
- 10" long length of 2x4 with the corners rounded off for use as a sanding block
- 36grit sandpaper
- 60grit sandpaper
- 120grit sandpaper
- cheap electric planer from Harbor Freight, or if you wanted to keep things quiet you could use a medium sized bench plane and do it by hand, as demonstrated in the vid above.
- A cheap Japanese-style pull saw from Harbor Freight - cuts on the pull stroke, not the push stroke.

Optional,

- a cheepo Dremel clone can also come in handy - you always want to handle these with 2 hands and work slowly.

- a couple sheets of drywall screen in heavy and fine grits can come in handy for rounding your rails.

- since you're doing a fish with the buttcrack a small round file for that inside vee-cut can give you a clean inside corner, but you can also do it with a dremel and that little conical sanding head - go slow and use both hands; and always cut your buttcrack last, after you've foiled and turned your rails.

The only tools I'd buy from a surf-oriented vendor would be a small spokeshave for bringing the stringer down on the deck side of the nose where your power planer won't fit. The cheap electric planers use fixed cutting depths so you can't adjust your depth on the fly or cut real deep, but that's a more advanced technique anyway. You can basically "sand" a blank with an electric planer set on a zero depth.

Aside from skinning the blank and maybe taking some thickness off the nose and tail and starting your rail bands, your sanding block will be your primary tool. It's just like foreplay - you always want to use long even strokes, from end to end when possible.



 

RattimusBeach

Nep status
Jun 2, 2014
565
324
63
Torrance, CA
Awesome. I just created a check-list and I'll go with your recs. Do you recommend the calipers, the shaper square and the fin marker? I may have a dremel at home in Fresno. What do you use the dremel for?

So, from fiberglass source, I should just pick up the blanks, 6oz e-cloth (how many yards do you recommend?), spoke shave and the Prolink Epoxy 1.5 Gal Kit (https://fiberglasssource.com/collections/epoxy-resin) ?
 

ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
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Definitely watch all of kazuma's videos.
Shaper supply (pure glass) in Costa Mesa has just started selling modified planers for $200 or so. I'd also get the plastic square from foam ez or greenlight (has more measurements);
Sand papers from 36 - 220 grit;
Sanding screens from 80-220 grit for rails;
Spoke shave for stringers;
Hand saw for outlines;
Utility knife for swallow cracks (see oakfoils ig for a cool tutorial, too).

Make sanding blocks out of wood and off-cut foam that take a whole sheet of paper. I took Jim Phillips' advice and never used a surform. A block w 36 grit can replace it.

You can skip calipers for now and use a right angle ruler on the flat bottom (or deck). I eventually made my calipers but hardly use them (I like flat decks and shallow concaves).
 

everysurfer

Phil Edwards status
Sep 9, 2013
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GDaddy said:
You can't see it, but the base of these fins extend 1" or more into the foam. I routed a slot into the finished board and glassed them into the slot. The back of that board will tear off before these fins come out.




Obviously, making your own fins and doing a rout-in install is another subject entirely. But the point remains that if you know what fins you want and where you want to put them then glassing them on saves money, because fin systems start at $7/box and the fins that go in those boxes will cost more, too. The above pic is a set of G-10 fins, and my total cost for fins and install was less than $30. Plus a bunch of time.
I'm curious about the routed in fin install. Since its going 1" into foam, I wouldn't think it adds as much strength as adding more patches, and a bigger fillet?

Your thoughts please?