Best foil for you.

[BayAreaKite]

Not sure what claw box inserts are. Are they that quick release no tool thing that a guy from Santa Barbara was doing? No, this project Cedros guy is in Seattle now. He posts on standupzone. On Foil.zone too. He is good about feedback. It's an article on his blog that first alerted me to the drag issue. He's since come out and said there is no drag. I'd still like to try one. The new carbon masts from manufacturers all taper towards the bottom. His doesn't. Not sure why as the leading and trailing edges of his are cosmetic anyway.

Hey everyone, this is the kid Kyle of Project Cedrus. Honestly I'm honored to be considered a kid. Parenting a toddler and working from home through the impacts of COVID is certainly not making me feel young Thought I'd chime in and offer to answer any questions you may have. It's always fun to fine these posts, thanks to google analytics.

First off, all masts have drag and I never said Cedrus has no drag. I am an engineer, probably not the best salesman. When I designed Project Cedrus, my priorities were weight, stiffness, and hydrodynamics in that order. It's a common challenge with product design, you can't have it all. I could have chosen to focus on a low drag mast, but it wouldn't be as stiff. I also could have made Project Cedrus solid and a little thinner, but then it would be heavier than aluminum masts, and more expensive, which makes no sense. Nevertheless all the other carbon masts out there are solid, heavy, and overpriced. Anyway, I admitted early on that it was a little thicker than most masts, however it is nearly exactly the same profile as the Axis mast which came out a year later. And now that wings are so much bigger and slower, the incremental drag of the mast is not noticeable. Not one of my customers has said they have felt more drag after they swapped their mast to Project Cedrus, but every single one of them has noticed the stiffness increase. So you can read my 3 year old blog entry and a see comments from non-owners on forums and worry about the drag, or feel free to talk to me or any of my customers for the truth.

The mast does not taper because it would increase my tooling and assembly cost, and also make it harder to do custom lengths. The edges are extruded from flexible PVC. If they tapered, I would have to mold or cast them and they would be much more expensive. I can assure you that I have put a lot of thought and money into every design aspect of this mast, which is why I haven't had to change it in 3 years and it's still performing as well if not better than it was for my first customers three years ago.

I'm really happy to make Project Cedrus work with whatever wings you want. I lose my a$$ on those adapters. They take hours of my time to design, but I basically charge for the machining cost. My goal is to make a mast that lasts forever, so you don't feel this unnecassary need to upgrade every year to basically the same product with a new decal. Masts should simply be stiff, light, strong, and reasonabnly hydrodynamic. I understand wing design is changing a lot, and that is a balance of art and science, which is why I don't make wings and have a ton of respect for those who do. But it's a different skillset than making masts, and after watching these companies develop masts that are too soft, too heavy, too expensive, for too long, I had to develop my own product.

Thanks for the opportunity to chime in, and please don't hesitate to reach out with any questions. My Kujira customers are all very stoked with the mast. Custom lengths, super stiff, and much lighter than the aluminum stock.

Kyle
PROJECT CEDRUS
Instragram Feed

 

[Hdip]

Are you really lighter than the lift mast? 28 inch version. That ones pretty light. But quite flexible as a result.

Also the AXIS mast connection moves the mast to front wing measurement back a little bit right? Does that change the ride?

People are shimming the baseplate of the takuma. Would it be possible to shim the mast to fuse connection on your system?

I’ve said it to you before on other forums. Your project looks great. I’m very tempted by it. I’m out of the water for awhile. I’ll look at you again seriously in three months.

 

[BayAreaKite]

Yes, it is lighter than Lift at the equivalent length. For Project Cedrus, that would be the 70cm mast. Lift masts are solid carbon, which means they would be very heavy compared to an extruded aluminum mast for the same thickness. So most brands chose to make the carbon mast thinner, which does reduce drag, but also dramatically reduces stiffness and results in a mast of nearly equivalent weight to aluminum. No one else has figured out how to make a hollow carbon mast at volume. The design and architecture of Project Cedrus is patented.

If an adapter shifts a wing for or aft, simply adjust your stance to compensate. I don't know any riders, unless you are strapped both feet, or riding a teeny tiny pocket board, who are always in the same position on the board. Foiling is a very fluid process, you're always moving your weight around to control the wing. So to answer your question, no, shifting the wing forward does not change the ride. It simply means the center of lift has moved slightly but your body won't notice the difference (I'm talking mm here, not feet). Furthermore, most boards have tracks which allow you to offset the mast location to keep the same front wing location, if that's really important to you.

The mast/mount interface is a very critical joint for Project Cedrus and I wouldn't shim it. What I would do would be design a new mount specifically for Takuma to give you the exact pitch you want. Or you can by the standard mount and shim the baseplate/board interface as people are currently doing. No harm in this, as long as your shim material is stiff.

 

[grendel95]

Is it just me or don't you think MFC is kind of out of the game ?? We don't see any reviews, nobody talks about anymore, what is going on ??

HELIOS - MFC | US

MFC Helios windsurfing Hydrofoil. A full carbon molded hydrofoil, the HELIOS uses the most innovative materials and technology to achieve an incredible performance and its completely compatible with our HYDROS surf hydrofoil.

mfchawaii.com

Coming in march! glad I held onto my MFC!

 

[Hdip]

HELIOS - MFC | US

MFC Helios windsurfing Hydrofoil. A full carbon molded hydrofoil, the HELIOS uses the most innovative materials and technology to achieve an incredible performance and its completely compatible with our HYDROS surf hydrofoil.

mfchawaii.com

Coming in march! glad I held onto my MFC!

How many sets do you have lying around? What did you do with that cloud 9 set? Fire sale it? I don't know if the fuse or mast was the biggest issue there but some guys ride it real good up here.

 

[grendel95]

How many sets do you have lying around? What did you do with that cloud 9 set? Fire sale it? I don't know if the fuse or mast was the biggest issue there but some guys ride it real good up here.

Haha just MFC and Uni now.

Sold the cloud IX for a decent price, I shimmed it all over to move lift around but just didn't work for me. I'll have to try Surf Doc Steve's to compare.

 

[JonnieTyler]

 

[grendel95]

Thanks for the detailed write up Jonnie

You might consider shimming the mast to decrease the angle of attack to reduce lift and shim the tail (front screw) to reduce lift even further.

And good luck reining in the foil froth, I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on something else every week!

 

[Hdip]

Yeah at your weight. That foil is probably too big for chest high waves. It’s really annoying but apparently we need a quiver of foils now. I believe you’re correct about the 980 being too big. You would need the smaller one for sure.

I’ve heard good things about that unifoil 150. And Mr. Bennett is probably similar size as you and he surfs real good on it. So you know that the next wings they come out will be meant for guys your size. Since he’s big in the design and test process now.

As far as buying things. I almost spent $1400 on a set up this week. And I just had surgery on my arm and won’t be able to get in the water for two months. My wife had to forbid me from buying it.

 

[Clamsmasher]

Hey Jonnie,

I'm sure you've already tried this, but if you can't tame a setup move the foil fully rearward in the boxes. If that isn't enough, drilling additional holes in the baseplate can often get you across the line. Shims can only go so far in addressing centre of gravity issues.

 

[Objective1]

You need a quiver of foils based on wave size. There is only so much you can do with shimming and moving the mast around. If you have to do too much to overcome the takeoff lift, then you are going to be off during the rest of the wave. Better to get the right sized foil (smaller) for your weight and wave size.

 

[JonnieTyler]

Thanks for the detailed write up Jonnie

You might consider shimming the mast to decrease the angle of attack to reduce lift and shim the tail (front screw) to reduce lift even further.

And good luck reining in the foil froth, I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on something else every week!

For the Takuma, putting a shim under the rear tail screw is supposed to reduce lift (tail is attached below the fuselage). I shimmed the 1300 LOL up to 1.6 mm.

From the beginning, I 've always rode with the mast pushed all the way to the back. I never messed with shimming the mast.

I couldn't contain the foil froth and ordered the Kujira 980 from BigWinds The Kujira should arrive on Friday. I'm hoping with my light weight, I won't have to mess with shimming the Kujira to unlock the pumping performance.

 

[Hdip]

foilwizard is pretty small and he shims the baseplate on the kujira.

 

[steamroller]

i used to agree about the quiver of wings until i got on the NL160...it works for me prone from 1' to a couple feet overhead as i found out in oahu this last week...pumps turns carves snaps...everything i want it to do...and in super steep warbly suckouts too...and im a BIG guy...it also works for small guys too...@banzaigrom cant be more than 110lbs soaking wet and he rides the NL160 as well

 

[juandesooka]

i used to agree about the quiver of wings until i got on the NL160...it works for me prone from 1' to a couple feet overhead as i found out in oahu this last week...pumps turns carves snaps...everything i want it to do...and in super steep warbly suckouts too...and im a BIG guy...it also works for small guys too...@banzaigrom cant be more than 110lbs soaking wet and he rides the NL160 as well

My recent experience lines up with yours. I have two gofoil rigs, one for prone surf, one for sup/wing. I generally have the sup/wing upped one size. But lately I have found I am swapping the NL160 over when switching. Maybe it's just the honeymoon period, or maybe it is more versatile with a wider range. I will still use big wing in really light wind or very small waves, otherwise it's the 160. I still need to tackle the broken wingtip. For longevity, a nice design for these may have been to have this screw on -- then could also change it up with different sizes/shapes.

 

[Muscles]

Hello everyone. Recently tried foiling and got hooked. So much fun and the appeal of the waves it will open is mind blowing.

I can ride behind my friends boat pretty well. I can water start and get the foil up and do small turns. Basically, I'm not falling over and getting frustrated which is how my first three sessions getting towed went. The foil I used is a Naish 1250 on a 55 CM mast mounted to a 5'8 38L board.

I want to buy my own setup and I am scouring craigslist for deals. Seems there are quite a few lift foils for sale on Oahu. My question is what size do I want to start with? I'm 6'2 and 220 lbs. There are multiple Lift 200 surf foils and a few Lift 250 foils. Is the 250 a better option for someone my size who is just starting out? This will be for foil surfing small rolling swells on Oahu.

 

[Hdip]

lift 250 surf. HA200 That's my opinion for your weight on lift. I weigh 185# and used the surf 200.

https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/d/honolulu-foil-250-albatross/7270417185.html Huge. interesting.

https://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/d/kailua-signature-foil-albatross-210/7255811233.html Good size. High aspect. Good pump and glide

https://honolulu.craigslist.org/kau/spo/d/kilauea-go-foil-triple-set/7257641026.html Different island. older generation of gear. Still good for learning. You'd use the big one, the medium one. Never use the small one.

 

[steamroller]

you're a big guy...big guys need GoFoil...it has the best lift ...light guys can ride whatever they want but the200+ club you need a GoFoil...the exception is maybe kaiborg...he rides the big lift wing and gets away with it but hes super athletic...not a mere mortal

get something GOOD!...GoFoil...AXIS...are guaranteed winners...stay away from.lift...they are all cracking! evem the new generations..naish is S#!T...i bought the naish 1650 and gave it away because is sucked so bad...

but whatever you do get in touch with JeffChang(wetfeet/blueplanet)...he sometimes has really good deals on equipment used

.theres also a groupchat i *think* its in whatsapp or hangouts app called "oahu wingfoilers"....pretty much the whole oahu foil community is on there they will if something is for sale they will.most likely know the guy...

also Hd1p is probably the best craigslist finder ive ever seen...i got 3 setups that he found for mw on Craigslist..

 

[steamroller]

DONT get that GoFoil on the big island...thats a gen2 mast...it will crack on you...the generation 3 masts are solid ....but gen1 and gen2 had problems...GoFoil brought this sport out so they had the task of working out all the bugs in the masts...gen3 masts are good ....you cam tell because Gen3 masts are all black red and white color scheme....no blue in the gen3 masts

 

[juandesooka]

Lift....buddies have these, never had any issues. They seem to love them. A little pricey.

Axis...if I wasn't already on gofoil, and was starting fresh, I'd consider Axis...good value in price/quality.

Gofoil...Hawaii is where the best deals are, that's a big plus. On the Mainland, shipping for these deals kills them. I haven't experienced any cracking issues with my two gen1 masts....into probably 300 sessions, and who knows how many from the riders I bought them used from. I just got a Gen3 mast, it definitely is beefier, and the price reflects it! (ouch) If you can get a cheap early gen deal, I'd say snap it up. It'll make a good foundation to build from. That triple set...I think it is Iwa, Kai, Nalu...if so, Iwa will be go-to, smaller Kai wing if you ride bigger waves (head high plus), but Nalu only if tow or kite. In older gen gear I am a fan of the Maliko 200 for sup/wing...lots of riders don't like it, as too slow, but otoh it is really stable and smooth and easy.