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Best foil for beginners, 2022 version?

J

JonnieTyler

Apr 4, 2020
38
27
18
Based on the recommendations from the Progression Project, I bought a Takuma 1300 LOL as my first foil back in Nov. 2020. I matched that up with a KT 4'4" foilboard at 34L.

At 140 lb. the 1300 LOL was a horrible choice. Even with the mast set all the way at the back of the boxes, there was too much lift on takeoff and I was getting launched on a regular basis. In Nov. 2020, the Lift 200 Surf wing was available and I think that should have been my first wing. Since I'm now on the Lift 120HA, I could've kept using the same mast.

The KT4'4" was a good first board, no regrets on that decision.

I've had a couple of friends (around 170 lb) start foiling this year and I recommended either the Lift 150 or 200 Surf V2, even though I had not ridden either of those wings at the time of the recommendation. The Lift Foils have a nice progressive lift on take off and the mast is usually set at the front of the boxes. Therefore, they could start with mast in the middle of the boxes AND move the mast forward as they got used to riding a foil.

I would even recommend the Lift 120HA as a first wing for experienced surfers that are 140 lb or less.

Any better wing choices for experienced surfers looking to start foiling?
 
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H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
It seems to be the younger guys are bucking the old trend of big slow stable foil. They are recommending TINY front wings so the new rider doesn't get bucked off. I could see some benefit to that. Lift 120 would fit that bill I guess. It seems like a technical foil to ride though.

Kujira 1210 possibly. Sig Gamechanger maybe. Any of the mid aspect foils, but the smallest one that will work for their weight would be my recommendation. It would be interesting to see someone try to learn on the lift 100 surf v2.

I ride the lift 150v2 the most. I'm not sure I would start someone on it. It rolls side to side to fast. A wider high aspect is much slower in roll and would therefore be more stable in my mind. I had success teaching people on the AXIS 900 2 years ago.
 
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JonnieTyler

Apr 4, 2020
38
27
18
I have both the Takuma Kujira 980 and 1210. I rounded off the tips on the 980, but the 1210 is completely stock. So I had my friends try out the 980. The sharp edges on the Kujira scare them and they still think the 980 has too much initial lift, thus I recommended the Lift Foils.

I thought about recommending the Lift 170HA , but experienced foilers told me they had a number of scary taco falls with the 170HA when they upgraded from their first foil to the 170HA.

Most of my early progression was on the Kujira 980 and I never got cut by the 980. The Lift 150V2 seems like a safer version of Kujira 980.
 
J

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
346
295
63
I am a fan of the small wing to start prone foiling. You can get away with a little bigger wing sup foil, but those first few prone sessions are intense, made way more intense if your board is coming out of the water before you've even popped up. My first prone session was on my Slingshot 84, that lasted a total of one wave. I rode the H2, which was too small but felt safe, until I gained confidence and used the 76 as the middle go to option.

I moved to gofoil and stayed there, so I don't really know the other brands that well. But if I was teaching my kid, I'd put them on the original gofoil iwa. Slow fat low aspect medium lift, no sharp edges anywhere. Once that is dialed, the progression to sleeker wings feels like adding jet fuel.
 
H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
Yeah, it's a really strange mix of a foil that is small and has low lift, vs a foil that is small and is very fast in roll. I think the HA foils would probably be best. So in lift it's probably the ha120 that would be best to learn on. The 170 has a lot of controllable but strong lift. I prefer it over the 120 for this reason as it's my small wave pump foil.

So in lift you were probably on the right track. ha120 to learn. 28 inch mast. There's no limit to how far that foil will take them either.

For gofoil I bet the new EZ line of foils is what they expect people to learn on.

AXIS maybe a png 850. Since I had success with guys learning on the 900 and the 850 is slightly narrower it would probably work out really well.
 
G

grendel95

Billy Hamilton status
Nov 1, 2005
1,605
325
83
SJC
I still really like my Uni Hyper 210 and I would definitely recommend it for a beginner, the lift is predictable , it has a very low stall speed (ton of glide) and really stable up on foil. Being older tech, there are some pretty good deals for them on CL Hawaii.

I went to Lift gear (200HA and 200 Surf V2) last year and initially I really liked it, fast and really surfy. I would recommend the 200 V2 surf to a beginner if they really wanted Lift gear, it's an easy fun wing. Lift high aspect wings are a bit unstable in my opinion, (probably what makes them fast) and not a good place for a beginner to start.
 
M

Muscles

Michael Peterson status
Jun 1, 2013
2,613
3,642
113
California/Hawaii
Can anyone help with foil sizing. I'm having trouble understanding it all. What size do I need if I'm 215 lbs?

There's a lift 200 surf classic for sale near me. Too small? I'm a total kook and really just trying to learn to prone surf.
 
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H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
That will work to learn. It's a stable foil with a nice gentle lift. (you'll still be bucked off) Get it to learn. How much?
 
H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
I'll need to see pictures of it to really tell you. EDIT: I just realized board included. Not a terrible deal since the board is included.

Where are you? I know guys selling AXIS gear at the moment.
 
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bluemarlin04

Michael Peterson status
Aug 13, 2015
2,573
2,397
113
Muscles said:
He's asking $1100 for a lift 200 surf foil, 24" wing, and 42L carbon board.
Click to expand...
get The axis begginer setup. It’s 1500.

borrow a cheap board or find one for a few hundred on craigs.

you’ll want to start on a bigger board then 42 L
 
M

Muscles

Michael Peterson status
Jun 1, 2013
2,613
3,642
113
California/Hawaii
Hdip said:
I'll need to see pictures of it to really tell you. EDIT: I just realized board included. Not a terrible deal since the board is included.

Where are you? I know guys selling AXIS gear at the moment.
Click to expand...
honolulu.craigslist.org

Complete Foil Board Set - sporting goods - by owner - sale

Complete Foil Board Set incl. Foil wing & Mast Full Carbon Wrap Foil Board 4’10”x 20” x 42 Liters Lift 200 Surf Foil Wing with 34 Glide Lift 24” Mast
honolulu.craigslist.org
 
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H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
Oh you're on Oahu. Nice. Yeah get that if you like the price. Learn on it. There's plenty of used gear on Oahu once you have a board. New lift wings are coming out right now so in a few months when you want to try something different there should be plenty of stuff to try used.

EDIT: In my mind I'm breaking that $1100 price in half. So $550 for a board is good. $550 for a slightly older generation (but good) foil setup is also good.
 
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J

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
346
295
63
that looks like a decent price for a starter combo.

I have purchased half my GoFoil gear from cast-off deals from Hawaii. Maui is hq so there's lots of it around, and with the advancements lately, people tend to dump the older stuff cheap. Or at least they were a year or 2 ago, I haven't been watching as closely lately.
 
Ranga

Ranga

Billy Hamilton status
Dec 31, 2008
1,752
1,488
113
I'm 6'3," 210, 52 years old and I live at one of the dribbliest places on the East Coast. What's a good prone rig for here?
 
J

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
346
295
63
So many options and variables, hard to pin it down. For learning, slow and steady is optimal, so you can seek out something that was the-bomb 2 years ago and is now half price used. This comparison document helps you know what you're looking at but also highlights how overwhelming it can get.

Upper echelon brands, $$$, carbon masts: Lift, Armstrong, Gofoil.

Mid brands: Axis, Takuma

Lower end for prices: Slingshot, Naish, Neil Pryde, Starboard

I ride gofoil but if i was starting out from scratch, I think Axis provides good value: the gear works and isn't highest prices.

I think a mid size mid aspect wing is what you want to start out...don't go for high aspect swords or tiny wings. You'll want a little bigger wing to lift you (though not one of the really big ones, too much lift). Short mast 24-28".

For a board err on side of easy floater than a high performance sinker. 40-50L. We learned with old converted surfboards, the board really doesn't matter very much.
 
H

Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,407
868
113
Malibu, CA
Ranga said:
I'm 6'3," 210, 52 years old and I live at one of the dribbliest places on the East Coast. What's a good prone rig for here?
Click to expand...


That's a good foil. I'm riding one right now. It is sharper than others though. Most people sand down the wingtips so it's not so sharp.

AXIS 910b is a good learner foil. It's slow and steady, pumps well. I can put the other pieces together if you want a whole AXIS kit worked out.

For a prone board. Something in the 40 liter range maybe.

Post craigslist or facebook marketplace deals and I can comment on them if you want to go used.
 
B

bluemarlin04

Michael Peterson status
Aug 13, 2015
2,573
2,397
113
Get the axis beginner setup

BSC 1120, 75cm fuse, and 500 tailwing.

will make it extremely easy to learn
 
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