America's workers still struggle despite strong jobs reports....

[afoaf]

Yeah I love when i hit that every year

I've always tuned my 401k withholding so I hit the annual
max in October that way you have a slightly bigger check
in November and December to pad the Christmas shopping.

it reduces your tax exposure so it mitigates the impact to
net pay.

current employer matches 50 cents on the dollar up to 6% of
total salary so now I push in to 401k and an after tax savings
account so I don't leave money on the table.

 

[Duffy LaCoronilla]

Transparent California. What a joke.

So I looked up my wife. They got her base pay correct, but magically gave her $28K of benefits. Her employer cost of health, dental, and vision is actually just under $12K. For those benefits she pays another $9000/yr with an $8K deductible. And she only gets 10 paychecks a year.

Also, very few teachers actually retire in their 60s. It's a high-burnout occupation for low pay. Less than a quarter of teachers make it to 20 years. My wife works an average of 55 hours a week during those 10 months and most of her colleagues do too- none of them have 40 hour a week jobs. She's at the top of her pay scale so she only gets raises when the union negotiates one; last year hers was 2%, which didn't even cover the increased cost of benefits her district put upon employees.

So they have her base pay right...out of that base pay you subtract $9k for her contribution to health insurance? Is that correct?

 

[utoma]

Latch onto the teacher salary comment, but ignore the large service and retail industry comment.

The point being: minimum wage is not a living wage. And minimum wage should be a living wage.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

Median income is something like $32k. To answer OP, I think housing/health care inflation vs wage increases for the median American are the two biggest factors, and it's been happening for decades.

 

[Autoprax]

I trip out on how much people know about their pay and their retirement.

I try to not look.

 

[grapedrink]

Latch onto the teacher salary comment, but ignore the large service and retail industry comment.

The point being: minimum wage is not a living wage. And minimum wage should be a living wage.

Start paying all of those folks a living wage, and pretty soon the costs of all the goods and services they provide will go up too, effectively eliminating the wage increase. Fast food and retail (especially groceries) have very narrow margins as it is. Child care is stupid expensive in CA coastal cities, and a driver of that is the cost of labor and mandated worker:child ratio. A bump in pay to those folks will immediately raise the price of child care, hurting the lower classes the most.

What you are saying is well meaning in theory, but plays out very differently in the real world. It’s far more effective to let the market decide the cost of labor, which it absolutely is for the better in our current economy.

Better yet, find ways to improve the skill sets of people in those jobs. Retail and food service are not meant to be careers, so we shouldn’t expect them to pay like careers either.

 

[hal9000]

Lets do an apples for apples comparison.

My job is similar to a teacher. Trade students for employees. We both spend our days trying to get the unwilling to do what they don't want.

Except my classroom is far more dangerous. And a teacher lifts a book and I lift a beam. And the teacher is hired for life, and I have to audition for every job. And a teacher gets benefits, while I get none. And a teacher knows the paycheck is steady, while I've had lots of clients not pay in full. We both have college degrees. They have credentials, I have a license. They work in a classroom. I sweat or freeze outside. We both get pleasure from a job well done. And we both get paid really poorly when starting out.

the hired for life comment is a little misleading.

you have due process rights but you can be fired for a variety of reasons. problem is, most admins don't give a sh*t to enforce the rules and sh*t-heel teachers either slip through the cracks or stay just under the radar for years.

your problem should be with the admins.

also, many may not like the idea of tenure, but it's also stifling for many teachers. there's no incentive to move to a new school if you see a better opportunity elsewhere and there's also no real opportunity for promotions or leadership positions like there are in other professions, unless you pay a sh*t-ton of money to get advanced certifications which are roughly equivalent to getting an additional degree.

yes, I realize many other professions also require additional certifications but not all of those require an entire new degree.

 

[hal9000]

I also don't think it's fair to conflate teachers with laborers. sure, both are professionals and both deserve the utmost respect. the pay should be commensurate with educational attainment, experience, and what the person brings to the profession.

 

[everysurfer]

I also don't think it's fair to conflate teachers with laborers. sure, both are professionals and both deserve the utmost respect. the pay should be commensurate with educational attainment, experience, and what the person brings to the profession.

Your missing my only point. Teachers are not underpaid.

The compensation and benefits compare fairly with other professions.

Their pay is negotiated by their unions and against the teachers best interest.

Why does the lazy, ill prepared, burnt out teacher that should get demoted to lunch lady, make the same pay as an energetic and motivated teacher? Because the teachers want it that way. They don't make more because they don't allow the dead weight to get cut in order to make more.

But the conservative base is too busy defending a criminal to argue for positive reforms

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

But the conservative base is too busy defending a criminal to argue for positive reforms

Judging from the remarks of the formerly staunch Republican parents I work with, the conservative base's idea of positive reforms is funneling money earmarked for public schools to charter schools owned by nutjobs like Betsy DeVos.

 

[hal9000]

Your missing my only point. Teachers are not underpaid.

The compensation and benefits compare fairly with other professions.

Their pay is negotiated by their unions and against the teachers best interest.

Why does the lazy, ill prepared, burnt out teacher that should get demoted to lunch lady, make the same pay as an energetic and motivated teacher? Because the teachers want it that way. They don't make more because they don't allow the dead weight to get cut in order to make more.

But the conservative base is too busy defending a criminal to argue for positive reforms

you're 100% right about the teacher who brings nothing to the classroom. increased pay isn't going to help or motivate that person.

yes, unions often work against their membership but I wouldn't argue they're always working against teachers' best interests. that's partly why i made the comment about how tenure holds most people back from advancing in the career.

there are a multitude of additional factors at work that determine teachers' pay since the local boards of education and, ultimately, the community at large, determine what's a fair rate of pay for teachers. a community that doesn't value education is not going to be willing to pay teachers what they're worth.

on the topic of being underpaid or fairly paid......i'd have to do some research to see if there's any published scientific work about that, just to get something closer to an objective read on that matter.

i'm also not saying a teacher should make more than an iron worker.

i grew up in a family full of people who worked with their hands.....mechanics, brick masons, auto body guys, painters. real work beats the fvck out of a man.

 

[everysurfer]

i grew up in a family full of people who worked with their hands.....mechanics, brick masons, auto body guys, painters. real work beats the fvck out of a man.

Two sides to that coin. If you can avoid injuries, real work will save you later on. So many guys my age with desk jobs have melted

 

[utoma]

Start paying all of those folks a living wage, and pretty soon the costs of all the goods and services they provide will go up too, effectively eliminating the wage increase. Fast food and retail (especially groceries) have very narrow margins as it is. Child care is stupid expensive in CA coastal cities, and a driver of that is the cost of labor and mandated worker:child ratio. A bump in pay to those folks will immediately raise the price of child care, hurting the lower classes the most.

What you are saying is well meaning in theory, but plays out very differently in the real world. It’s far more effective to let the market decide the cost of labor, which it absolutely is for the better in our current economy.

Better yet, find ways to improve the skill sets of people in those jobs. Retail and food service are not meant to be careers, so we shouldn’t expect them to pay like careers either.

You need to understand the effect of minimum wage. The minimum wage will pull up the bottom rung of pay. Yes this will drive up costs, but that costs will be spread out between everyone. So the minimum wage workers will still feel an increase in pay.

 

[grapedrink]

You need to understand the effect of minimum wage. The minimum wage will pull up the bottom rung of pay. Yes this will drive up costs, but that costs will be spread out between everyone. So the minimum wage workers will still feel an increase in pay.

You clearly don't understand the effects of the minimum wage. That feel of increased pay is typically short lived, and ends up being cancelled out when business owners raise prices to cover the increased labor cost. Minimum wage workers are more likely to spend their money at low profit margin businesses that pay less (think Food4Less vs Whole Foods, or McD's vs a Jewish deli), so the cost of those goods and services will inevitably go up as well.

Also, when people make more money, one of the first places they will spend it is to improve their housing situation. Rent increases are in lockstep with minimum wage increases. In fairness, there are also other reasons why rent goes up.

The idea of a "living wage" is highly subjective. What does that cover? For a single income or a couple to own a home? Or just afford rent? Kids or no kids? Should they be able to save for retirement and put kids through college? On the coast, you are talking $50+/hour to even begin to cover a handful of the things I mentioned.

 

[Surfdog]

Latch onto the teacher salary comment, but ignore the large service and retail industry comment.

The point being: minimum wage is not a living wage. And minimum wage should be a living wage.

Minimum wage was NEVER meant to be ANY kind of "living wage".

It was originally constructed to guarantee a minimum hourly wage for teens entering the work force once legally eligible. Along with a minimum age to work and get paid that wage legally. It was to make sure teens don't get used for slave wage labor in their first jobs. It was NEVER meant to be a wage to "live on" let alone raise a family with. This whole "living wage" farce is just more SJW dogma.

Jobs at fast food restaurants, malls, shops, unskilled construction labor, etc; were meant for teens first jobs. But many of today's teens are too good for those jobs now. So illegal immigrant or visa immigrants take these jobs in their places.

These jobs were never meant to be "living wage" jobs. Some high wage/high cost of living cities "might" be able to support paying $15 an hour. But even with that, they STILL couldn't afford to live in those expensive cities on those wages.

I guess this is where he universal income argument comes into play? Dems love to throw $trillions$ at everything in some lame effort to "fix it". Where personal responsibility used to be common sense.

 

[afoaf]

Jobs at fast food restaurants, malls, shops, unskilled construction labor, etc; were meant for teens first jobs. But many of today's teens are too good for those jobs now. So illegal immigrant or visa immigrants take these jobs in their places.

maybe in construction, but not the "fast food restaurants, malls, [and] shops" I patronize.

 

[Surfdog]

maybe in construction, but not the "fast food restaurants, malls, [and] shops" I patronize.

Yes, I too have seen a resurgence of teens in these fast food, and entry level service jobs. It's a welcome trend lately.

Most all of these were majority hispanic in the restaurants, front and back a few years back, but I've noticed a trend to hiring young native anglos again, at least in the front customer service sector. Maybe this "work" thing is catching on with the Gen Z's?

Can't all be pro-surfers/skaters or new app insta-millionaires

 

[hammies]

A decent living wage should be enough for somebody to rent a median-priced studio apartment, drive a reasonably decent car, eat out occassionally, buy new clothes occassionally, take a trip every year, and not go bankrupt by walking into a hospital.

$1800/mo: studio apt
$200/mo utilities, incl. cell phone
$200/mo: car costs, NOT including payments
$400/mo: food and entertainment
$100/mo: clothes
$100/mo: travel fund
$200/mo misc.
$200/mo savings

= $3200/month take home, or about $50K/year gross annual for a single person to live a decent life.

 

[hal9000]

Two sides to that coin. If you can avoid injuries, real work will save you later on. So many guys my age with desk jobs have melted

Yeah that’s totally true. It’s disgusting how men waste the prime years of their lives turning to piles of sh!t

 

[Ifallalot]

A decent living wage should be enough for somebody to rent a median-priced studio apartment, drive a reasonably decent car, eat out occassionally, buy new clothes occassionally, take a trip every year, and not go bankrupt by walking into a hospital.

$1800/mo: studio apt
$200/mo utilities, incl. cell phone
$200/mo: car costs, NOT including payments
$400/mo: food and entertainment
$100/mo: clothes
$100/mo: travel fund
$200/mo misc.
$200/mo savings

= $3200/month take home, or about $50K/year gross annual for a single person to live a decent life.

Travel fund? That's a luxury item

$1200 for clothes a year is asinine as well. That too is a luxury item