Allowing and ignoring lawlessness, rampant drug dealing, and homelessness in Los Angeles is working out fine.

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
25,941
14,726
113
A Beach
Which law makes being homeless a crime?
We have (or used to have) vagrancy laws. Or littering, or trespassing. I'm not allowed to pitch a tent in the middle of a public parking space. Enforce the laws and stop enabling.

That said the Supreme Court rulings AFOAF mentions above certainly complicate this. Plus it's tough to force someone into treatment unless they are off the charts crazy and dangerous.

How much does this plan cost?
I don't know. How much does it cost in first responder hourly pay and hospital bills to revive an addict OD'ing on the street? Usually much less than preventative care.

Where is this extra jail space you’ll need to house homeless every evening? What time are homeless asked to leave the jail each day and what time do they return? Can they sleep at different jails or are they restricted to just one? Do they get meals like other prisoners? Do they get irange jumpsuits? What about homeLes’s families? Same cell or separated? Kids in jail? Will there be on-site education?
Who said anything about jails? We already have existing shelters, except the beds often go unused because the can't use drug and/or alcohol. Condensing encampments into designated areas will make it easier for first aid, navigation centers, social workers etc to help people. If you want a private room in a shelter in a nicer area, then earn it by picking up trash, staying clean, and meeting other milestones that show you are putting in some effort.

Or we could just keep doing what we are doing, cause it's clearly working :roflmao: :crazy2:
 

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
60,006
16,715
113
How is it a losing proposition? There's more than mentally ill vagrants out there.
Homeless people get released and don’t show up to court dates. At best they get a free meal and a roof over their head for a night before they’re released. I learned that about my doormat humper.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grapedrink

ElOgro

Duke status
Dec 3, 2010
31,867
11,809
113
We have (or used to have) vagrancy laws. Or littering, or trespassing. I'm not allowed to pitch a tent in the middle of a public parking space. Enforce the laws and stop enabling.

That said the Supreme Court rulings AFOAF mentions above certainly complicate this. Plus it's tough to force someone into treatment unless they are off the charts crazy and dangerous.


I don't know. How much does it cost in first responder hourly pay and hospital bills to revive an addict OD'ing on the street? Usually much less than preventative care.


Who said anything about jails? We already have existing shelters, except the beds often go unused because the can't use drug and/or alcohol. Condensing encampments into designated areas will make it easier for first aid, navigation centers, social workers etc to help people. If you want a private room in a shelter in a nicer area, then earn it by picking up trash, staying clean, and meeting other milestones that show you are putting in some effort.

Or we could just keep doing what we are doing, cause it's clearly working :roflmao: :crazy2:
The troll you’re responding to brought up jails. Classic skippy with the tough questions.

You want the government to do something about the street people? Spread the word - free dope, alcohol, and pizza at all city halls, county facilities, in front of the state capital, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: grapedrink

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
20,251
6,976
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
Homeless people get released and don’t show up to court dates. At best they get a free meal and a roof over their head for a night before they’re released. I learned that about my doormat humper.
Thats my point. If laws were enforced equitably in Los Angeles and SF County this would improve overnight. I'm guessing if you got a speeding ticket and just decided not to pay it there would be a warrant for your arrest at some point.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: $kully

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,204
22,753
113
How is it a losing proposition? There's more than mentally ill vagrants out there.
mentally ill or not, the vagrants don't pay fines, don't show for court appearances, and, even if they did, the states don't have the capacity to use jails as a backdoor solution to the ballooning homeless crisis

there are at least these many categories of people:

mentally ill
mentally ill addict
short-term homeless
short-term homeless addict
long-term homeless
long-term homeless addict

there really are only existing solutions for the short-term homeless and a small fraction of the short-term homeless who don't want to be addicts and are willing to join rehab-based programs

the state does not (and should not?) have a way to forcibly institutionalize someone which makes the mentally ill a losing proposition for police departments

the laws prevent meaningful redress of all mentally ill and drug addicted short/long term homeless since most shelters require sobriety to employ their services

further, homelessness is usually a symptom of addiction...I'm not sure you can really solve this problem without solving the issue of drug addiction.

"enforcing existing laws" is not and has not worked to this point

I think we'll continue to see more and more violence perpetrated against these communities because you're not the only one that is disgusted and outraged by what's going on
 

donuts

Tom Curren status
Jan 23, 2005
12,237
1,775
113
@ the fun house
The troll you’re responding to brought up jails. Classic skippy with the tough questions.

You want the government to do something about the street people? Spread the word - free dope, alcohol, and pizza at all city halls, county facilities, in front of the state capital, etc.
but who will they get to deliver the pizzas ?



& no tip...

:cry:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grapedrink

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,237
22,990
113
62
Vagina Point
Having a lot of homeless people wondering around like zombies really signals the message of danger, of a society that has lost control of itself.

Free pizza?

What kind?

I hate cheap pizza.
 

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
60,006
16,715
113
So instead of taking a step back and recognizing and addressing the issues that have led to our homeless problem we just want to spend money locking them away out of sight. Thats not solving a problem, thats moving the mess from your bedroom floor to the closet.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grapedrink

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
20,251
6,976
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
About 90% are drug addicts. Realistically, there's no hope of getting them off drugs without mandatory rehab and a job program.
I don't care if they are on drugs nor do I care if they have a job. I do care that the laws aren't enforced and this leads to misery for these people and horrendous crimes against residents.

If the law was enforced they would scurry in all directions. Allowing them to concentrate is a misery multiplier and strains social services in these areas.
 
  • Like
Reactions: grapedrink

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
25,941
14,726
113
A Beach
mentally ill or not, the vagrants don't pay fines, don't show for court appearances, and, even if they did, the states don't have the capacity to use jails as a backdoor solution to the ballooning homeless crisis

there are at least these many categories of people:

mentally ill
mentally ill addict
short-term homeless
short-term homeless addict
long-term homeless
long-term homeless addict

there really are only existing solutions for the short-term homeless and a small fraction of the short-term homeless who don't want to be addicts and are willing to join rehab-based programs

the state does not (and should not?) have a way to forcibly institutionalize someone which makes the mentally ill a losing proposition for police departments

the laws prevent meaningful redress of all mentally ill and drug addicted short/long term homeless since most shelters require sobriety to employ their services

further, homelessness is usually a symptom of addiction...I'm not sure you can really solve this problem without solving the issue of drug addiction.

"enforcing existing laws" is not and has not worked to this point

I think we'll continue to see more and more violence perpetrated against these communities because you're not the only one that is disgusted and outraged by what's going on
The major challenge is that you cannot force someone into mental health or addiction treatment, even if it it was widely available.

Short term homelessness is a relatively low hanging fruit in comparison.
 
  • Like
Reactions: npsp and afoaf

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
20,251
6,976
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
So instead of taking a step back and recognizing and addressing the issues that have led to our homeless problem we just want to spend money locking them away out of sight. Thats not solving a problem, thats moving the mess from your bedroom floor to the closet.
the state spends enough money on homeless every year to make each individual homeless person wealthy. What they are doing is not working....making things worse. For society to function you can't have anarchy.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: $kully

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
60,006
16,715
113
I don't care if they are on drugs nor do I care if they have a job. I do care that the laws aren't enforced and this leads to misery for these people and horrendous crimes against residents.

If the law was enforced they would scurry in all directions. Allowing them to concentrate is a misery multiplier and strains social services in these areas.
Do you feel the same way about white collar crimes?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grapedrink

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
12,514
8,550
113
I don't care if they are on drugs nor do I care if they have a job. I do care that the laws aren't enforced and this leads to misery for these people and horrendous crimes against residents.

If the law was enforced they would scurry in all directions. Allowing them to concentrate is a misery multiplier and strains social services in these areas.
You seem like you don't agree with my rationale as to why laws are not being enforced, to wit, there are financial interests and a homeless industrial complex ensuring that we continue not to enforce laws. These same financial interests can ensure voters believe that we just need to build more housing so that they continue to be awarded housing development contracts.
 

donuts

Tom Curren status
Jan 23, 2005
12,237
1,775
113
@ the fun house
Having a lot of homeless people wondering around like zombies really signals the message of danger, of a society that has lost control of itself.

Free pizza?

What kind?

I hate cheap pizza.
careful, careful...

the pizza delivery boys are angry enough as it is...:socrazy:




still no tip though....
 

donuts

Tom Curren status
Jan 23, 2005
12,237
1,775
113
@ the fun house
Do you feel the same way about white collar crimes?
people don’t want to be hassled when they’re out on the street, or in their own neighborhoods.

nobody cares much about whatever you manage to steal from wherever you’re working.

in your case they probably even ignore the theft of services. (be more careful about the sexual harassment stuff in the future though...)
 

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
60,006
16,715
113
people don’t want to be hassled when they’re out on the street, or in their own neighborhoods.

nobody cares much about whatever you manage to steal from wherever you’re working.

in your case they probably even ignore the theft of services. (be more careful about the sexual harassment stuff in the future though...)
I don’t have a white collar job.