ACLU at war with the bill of rights

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
38,639
27,975
113
  • Like
Reactions: Ifallalot

$kully

Duke status
Feb 27, 2009
60,006
16,710
113
Has any of the people who’ve been saying “white supremacy” is the biggest threat eVAaaarrrRrr defined what “white supremacy” is?

For example, the ACLU says the 2A is racist so if someone makes a posts on twitbook supporting 2A then person is a white supremacist?

What if the post is made by Colion Noir?
Naw, you’re a white supremacist for a lot of other reasons.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: grapedrink

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,265
19,091
113
Jacksonville Beach
I know the facts on a couple of these examples and you're gonna be real unhappy about the outcome if/when those facts come out.
LOL I think it's a potential scenario that contradicts the narrative the ACLU podcast purports to advance based on some promo. I'm gonna be real unhappy about the outcome of the Florida - Alabama game in September.

I don't even think it applies to most Good Old Boy sheriffs in may-issue states. I just think it's non-zero. The Sheriff in Bergen County New Jersey was the one who said Donald Trump is the last hope for white people. One of the most liberal counties in one of the most liberal states, and it's a may-issue state.

Now think of how many counties there are in may-issue states across the country, and you think zero point zero are double-taking a conceal-carry when the form for Da'Montavius Jenkins comes across the desk?
 

mundus

Duke status
Feb 26, 2018
36,723
15,942
113
LOL I think it's a potential scenario that contradicts the narrative the ACLU podcast purports to advance based on some promo. I'm gonna be real unhappy about the outcome of the Florida - Alabama game in September.

I don't even think it applies to most Good Old Boy sheriffs in may-issue states. I just think it's non-zero. The Sheriff in Bergen County New Jersey was the one who said Donald Trump is the last hope for white people. One of the most liberal counties in one of the most liberal states, and it's a may-issue state.

Now think of how many counties there are in may-issue states across the country, and you think zero point zero are double-taking a conceal-carry when the form for Da'Montavius Jenkins comes across the desk?
Black people legally getting guns turned Saint Reagan into a gun grabber so there is historical precedence.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,265
19,091
113
Jacksonville Beach
I was actually referring to the "racist appraisal" trope you cited.
Oh okay. Been pepsi-challenged hither and tither, sea to shining sea. You understand my threshold here is non-zero, in a country of 330 million people? I mean 330 million people I can come up with a trans GOP candidate to replace Gavin Newsom.

 

grapedrink

Duke status
May 21, 2011
25,938
14,725
113
A Beach
Probably about 20 years late to this party.
To be clear, I don't have a problem with LEOs monitoring chat sites and social media for those who appear to be angry enough to commit acts of violence without any prodding. It's when they actively convince them and arguably engage in entrapment that I have an issue with.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,265
19,091
113
Jacksonville Beach
To be clear, I don't have a problem with LEOs monitoring chat sites and social media for those who appear to be angry enough to commit acts of violence without any prodding. It's when they actively convince them and arguably engage in entrapment that I have an issue with.
Yeah well I bet the War On Terra era of the FBI (or the plot to kidnap Michigan's Governor) will have non-zero ginning up of the marks from the FBI.
 
  • Like
Reactions: grapedrink

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
29,238
2,056
113
Carlsbad
Oh okay. Been pepsi-challenged hither and tither, sea to shining sea. You understand my threshold here is non-zero, in a country of 330 million people? I mean 330 million people I can come up with a trans GOP candidate to replace Gavin Newsom.

I know most of the details on that one and they were wrong. The explanation is too long for the forum but I can send it to you in a PM
 
Last edited:

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,265
19,091
113
Jacksonville Beach
I know most of the details on that one and they were wrong. The explanation is too long for the forum but I can send it to you in a PM

20 Pacheco is one of a small cluster of about 20 such homes which were of relatively low quality construction, meaning rectangular boxes with no amount of design/appeal. It was built on pylons. What they did was add a second floor below the main level, thus creating a "reverse" floorplan with the main living areas on the upper level and bedrooms/baths on the lower level. But it's still a low appeal box, similar to the average budget doublewide mobile home. If you google the address you can still see the "before". I saw a pic of the after and it now resembles the home at 19 Dutton Ct, just around the corner. Same deal, they took a stilt house and built out the crawl space. Around those pylons, so you can imagine what the limitations will be on the floorplan.

Now here's the problem with that scenario: There's a distinction to be made between a 3bd house that was designed at 1100sf vs one that was designed at 2200sf. The public zone of the home (living room, dining, kitchen) etc and the bedroom/bath layouts and sizes will be different than for a home that designed to be twice the size. 8ft interior ceilings vs taller 9ft and 10ft ceilings that you find on the larger homes when built individually.

The sales history for the immediate neighborhood shows relatively low pricing when compared to the areas of custom built homes further up the hill or to the north, and much lower than the homes on the bay side of the freeway to the s/e where all the supporting services are. The problem is that there were no recent sales of that size in that neighborhood.

So the appraiser in the first situation sees what they see. But someone goes on Zillow and sees larger homes within a 1 mile or 1.5 mile radius which - on paper - look similar in size and proceed on the assumption that everything else is similar even though that's not the case. IRL, buyers in an entry level pricing tranche will put up with a lot more quirks than will a buyer in the move-up market.

Anyway, that's the house. Everything else which follows from here on out is conjecture on my part:

These stories are always based on there being a 2nd appraisal, the assumption being the higher value is always the more reasonable value. Now while I can see a lot of what's going on with the house I don't know anything about how these appraisals were engaged; however the script practically writes itself: minority borrower has complained about the first appraisal being racially biased, it was reviewed by hand at the lender (by another appraiser) and the appeal was rejected. That means the reviewer didn't see anything in the appraisal or the surrounding market to disagree with the original appraiser.

Then the loan broker takes the deal to a different lender, explains to them the situation and mentions civil rights lawsuit and HUD investigation and the lender gets the clear message. It will be likely in that scenario that the information gets passed on to the appraiser even though the lenders are prohibited from trying to influence an appraisal. So the 2nd appraiser weighs their situation and proceeds. Maybe their politics come into play , or maybe it's just a sense of self-preservation. They will tell whatever lie it takes to make the desired number and chalk it up to reparations.

And BTW, there still haven't been any sales in this area which have closed during the interim which would come anywhere close to supporting a $1.4M value for that property.

Some of these stories involve multiple appraisals, not just the two. The first one doesn't stick and the 2nd one doesn't stick but the 3rd one finally does. These loan brokers will sometimes shop the deal until it sticks.
Isn't having an artificially high appraisal value fraud?

On to the next one:

 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
29,238
2,056
113
Carlsbad
That's another one I'm familiar with where there's actually an explanation. I actually mentioned that one in the PM I sent you.

Another remodeled home, extremely similar to hers' just sold (after all 3 of the appraisals referenced) which demonstrates that the high appraisal was grossly overvalued by maybe $40k. There's also a more recent sale than that of a remodeled 2bd that sold for $128k.

The point being that the only way I could build an appraisal that equaled her highest appraisal would be to use sales from outside the neighborhood and then lie about the similarities of the two neighborhoods. Simple to do, but not the right thing.

There are appraisers who are currently running scared of getting canceled for having a value dispute with a minority borrower. Some of them are talking about refusing such assignments, which itself is a very serious ethical breach.

And you're right, grossly overvaluing a property is a serious ethical breach that would lead to discipline for the licensee. If such a complaint were submitted, and if the state acted strictly by the book without regard for the politics involved.
 
Last edited:

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
26,265
19,091
113
Jacksonville Beach
That's another one I'm familiar with where there's actually an explanation. I actually mentioned that one in the PM I sent you.

Another remodeled home, extremely similar to hers' just sold (after all 3 of the appraisals referenced) which demonstrates that the high appraisal was grossly overvalued by maybe $40k. There's also a more recent sale than that of a remodeled 2bd that sold for $128k.

The point being that the only way I could build an appraisal that equaled her highest appraisal would be to use sales from outside the neighborhood and then lie about the similarities of the two neighborhoods. Simple to do, but not the right thing.

There are appraisers who are currently running scared of getting canceled for having a value dispute with a minority borrower. Some of them are talking about refusing such assignments, which itself is a very serious ethical breach.

And you're right, grossly overvaluing a property is a serious ethical breach that would lead to discipline for the licensee. If such a complaint were submitted, and if the state acted strictly by the book without regard for the politics involved.
Many such cases!

 

GDaddy

Duke status
Jan 17, 2006
29,238
2,056
113
Carlsbad
I know most of the details about that property, too. And that outcome most likely wasn't about race, either. That's another situation where I would have been unable to come to the same higher value conclusion without telling some untruths.

Her day job is VP/Legal Counsel for a real-estate related IT company. The word is that those services include offering alternatives to appraisals. Maybe that aspect about the company is true, maybe it isn't. Suffice it to say her interests and her apparent politics extend beyond the one mortgage transaction.

The answer to the question of racial bias in appraisals obviously isn't "never", but even if only "rarely" that is wholly unacceptable and intolerable. Let them burn. The appraiser in the Indianapolis example who used 2bd sales because that's what public records said the house was gets what he gets. I know more about that situation (and a couple others) that I'm unable to post.
 
Last edited: