4/3 recommendations

rgruber

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May 30, 2004
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I agree with you mostly except for the fluffy liners and smoothskin.

If it's windy, smoothskin stops a lot of the evaporative effect and keeps the wind from blowing through the suit. It adds warmth or rather keeps you from loosing heat. This is particularly true with newer more flexible suits where they blow more air into the neoprene for stretch.

And I've had Xcels Comps with no liner and fluffy liners and the fluffy liner ones are much warmer (and less flexible). My older 3/2 comp is less warmer than my all 2mil with fluffy liner.
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
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Petak Island
If it's windy, smoothskin stops a lot of the evaporative effect and keeps the wind from blowing through the suit. It adds warmth or rather keeps you from loosing heat. This is particularly true with newer more flexible suits where they blow more air into the neoprene for stretch.
And this has been tested and verified independently using actual science.

Also, the kite guys know this very well and would say it's crazy to think otherwise, which is why they use max smoothskin coverage.
 
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Kento

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Jan 11, 2002
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Kento, Everybody from the East Coast to Southern California and from as far as NZ have offered an opinion on a wetsuit for Sonoma County and I am experiencing thread FOMO. So here is my 2c Au and highly controversial approach to wetties.

I googled Sonoma County and it is north of SF. I have lived in the Bay Area and used to surf Santa Cruz and sometimes Ocean Beach. I used similar winter attire as here in Vic. Winter climate is comparable to SF, maybe we get a bit more horrible wet weather here. Surf comparable too - the open beaches are too big and blown out half the time. So what the others say - no a 3/2 won't do it.

Wetsuits are almost like skate shoes - I don't believe in paying full price, the only reasons I can imagine for doing that is if one wanted the latest fashion or have been sucked into craving the latest tech bells and whistles that the advertising offers. A bit of forward planning and taking advantage of the adverts that pop up on our increasingly intrusive social media will always get me something on sale. Bricks and mortar surf shops at end of season can provide some bargains too.

I don't understand why anyone feels the need for a custom wetsuits - I see all sorts of sizes and shapes of human at the beach and none of them are in custom wetties. Neoprene is a very forgiving material. If it is too tight then go up a size - certain bits might be baggy, but all the name brand wetties have decent zip sealing now, so getting blown up like a balloon full of water hasn't happened to me since the 80s or 90s. All but one of my wetties are technically too big for me. The patagonia is an outlier though - even if I could get one my size I couldn't imagine going smaller than my current oversize one. It feels tight enough and getting into it would be a problem.

I might sound like I don't care about wetties, but this is not the case. I believe one of the biggest hindrances to surfing performance is being cold. Muscles are not going to operate properly. So for winter I am looking for something more than a 4/3 steamer. Always attached hoods - hoods and helmets do not affect balance once used to them. I guess they might distract the senses of someone not used to them, but cause me no problems. When it comes to warmth rubber thickness is number one. The importance of fluffy liners and smoothskin panels is completely overrated. My 5.5 Excel Comp which has no smoothskin at all is very warm and going to be warmer than some exotic fluffy lined smooth skin chest panel 4mm.

My consumption of surfboards compared to many on this forum is very modest, but I like to keep a good range in my wetty wardrobe. Maybe fixation is too strong a word, but I do have a lot of them. Spring now, but this winters wardrobe consisted of 5.5 mm hooded Xcel Comp, 5 mm hooded Xcel Drylock, 4.5 mm hooded Pattagonia, 4/3 mm hooded Vissla. Also 2 non hooded wetties for early winter and spring - 5/3 Hurley and 4/3 Narval.

Having this many wetties means it is much easier to get one or another dry for the next session even when I am doing 2 sessions in a day they get at least close to one day of drying time. It seems I am the only one who has been happy with the Pattagonia (30% off made it affordable). The rubber is stiff, but robust and retained its insulation qualities over several season. It started leaking at the end of this winter so I am no longer happy with it. The importance of stretchy rubber for paddling is completely overrated - paddling and popping to the feet is all about fitness.

I don't worry about drying them in some morning or winter sun. I do rinse them well and make sure the water flushes the inside. Hang them for a bit inside out, then turn them the other way and hang some more. Having so many wetties means that they are not spending all their time sopping wet, so they last me over 3 or more seasons. I have a tip for no smell booties - put a little bit of liquid laundry detergent in them, fill them with water then shake and stand them while rinsing the steamer. Then rinse out in the wetty bucket. On the subject of booties I have 2 pairs. 5mm get used in the morning and 3mm for the arvo session. 5mm booties are noticably warmer than 3 and good for chilly mornings. I managed to wear a hole in the sole of my left Billabong 5mm boot in one season - I think it is because it is my skimboard pushing foot.

PS I haven't covered my summer wardrobe as it is not relevant to N Cal water temps - unless one is surfing in the middle of a hot summer day (I don't do that) there would be no need for 3/2, but 3/2 is needed for summer here.
Thanks. This is great advice. I am guessing you are well on the opposite side of Cape Otway. I took a moderate length look at Johanna on a solid DOH plus day way back when, howling offshores, with no one around for miles (except for the free sheep sh!t sign offers), and gave a massive no-thanks. Was extremely heavy, waves looked they had a 5% makeability ratio, and smelled extremely sharky (probably the exact conditions I'll deal with up north :roflmao: ). So yeah, couldn't tell about water but from other GOR spots, I'm guessing not quite as cold as Sonoma (and northern areas). As an aside, cool thing I learned about Trinity County is that it has no traffic lights at all but I guess that's neither here nor there.

Pretty much the only size I can fit into is an XLT, mostly because of height. Just can't lard up with all the good beer around, not that I haven't been mowing through at least a 6er each night as result of boxing all my crap up for the move. The ice cream headache potential gives me pause for sure so definitely considering grabbing a 4/3 or 5/4 hooded suit in conjunction with the 4/3 I recently bought. Have both a deck and garage in new place to dry suits off in so that will help my cause.

Thanks again for the advice. Will be utilizing it up north for sure. (should probably copy it before powers that be decide to swap website for turnip twaddlers)
 
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Kento

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Kento, you are the perfect candidate for a custom suit and with a good option available locally you've got nothing to lose.
Just the skin behind the knees! (I think that was where that affliction occurred - or maybe it was Rip Curl).


Goddamn, in hindsight I had fucking audacity being a Souther sponger at SS in a wine-colored wetsuit with a big SC logo on the arm (absolutely not my choice but it was free). :roflmao:
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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No worries Kento, Although the only bit of information that I would call a gem is my tip on no smell booties. I used to use about a level teaspoon of laundry powder in each bootie, then one of my bargain wetties came with a free bottle of rip curl wettie detergent called "**** off" - the cap has an inner measure for I estimate about 5mm which seems right. It is easier to use than powder, so when that ran out I looked at the ingredients and it said "non ionic surfectant" which is what some liquid laundry detergent lists. Everyone in Vic seems to use flexible buckets to transport and wash wetties - $6 AUD from hardware store.

I read your first posts and sounds like you are of similar proportions to me (on a different scale) - wide shoulders + narrow frame. The size chart has handed you out a suit (Quik Syncro) that feels too tight on the shoulders. All size charts will put me comfortably as an XS although maybe I am a cm or so taller (not much). The problem is nowhere seems to stock XS, I don't know why they bother to include that size.

Coincidentally the only XS in my wardrobe is I think a Quik Syncro 3/2 summer suit. Absolute bargain price, fits perfectly - 3/2 have more give than 4 or 5mm. Although I almost didn't buy when trying on in the shop because it seemed to be pulling tight on the shoulders - then I noticed that the adjustable cord (get these on front zip) was done up - when loosened was fine. So all my other wetties are S which are technically too big - but they work fine. Just a guess if you got the next size up from XLT for say a thick hooded steamer it will fit you more comfortably - might be a tad baggy in places, but I don't find it a big deal, plus thick wetties are less forgiving to get in and out of anyway. Disclaimer: the oversize from the chart suggestion is based on my experiences only - it risks an unhappy owner of a baggy wettie!

PS I don't think sizing anomalies are a result of SE Asian manufacture - despite what someone suggested I don't think Japanese or any other SE asians for that matter have narrow shoulders - they tend to be smaller though. Plus I was once talking to someone who owned a golf clothing brand for Aus market manufactured in China - samples get sent over and it is up to the business to request adjustments before releasing the product. I am not a business person though, so don't know how exactly this works.
 

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Chee-to

Michael Peterson status
Jan 11, 2002
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I took a moderate length look at Johanna on a solid DOH plus day way back when, howling offshores, with no one around for miles (except for the free sheep sh!t sign offers), and gave a massive no-thanks. Was extremely heavy, waves looked they had a 5% makeability ratio, and smelled extremely sharky (probably the exact conditions I'll deal with up north :roflmao: ).
More like howling onshore, but the rest is accurate. The Bodega Bay buoy has 10+ kt NW winds just over 50% of the time.

You're going to be surfing the most in damp/drizzly conditions with 48-54 degree air and water. 3mm boots will do you fine, especially if you buy the Solite Custom Pros with the heat socks. Gloves aren't really necessary.

You're also gonna want to get a good open cell 7mm to dive/spearfish up there.
 
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Kento

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Yeah, MR J, problem I saw with the next size up (XXL) is that the height maxes out at 6'2". O'Neill's LTs used to work for me when I was 20 years younger (and about 25 pounds lighter :roflmao: ) but they were biased height wise. I tried an LT springsuit on recently and it was laughably short. Midsection wise was fine but the resulting posture change would have made my back look like my old high school librarian. Maybe this is China's revenge for us cracking wise about the old foot binding practice.

Chee-to, for some reason that cold damp air just bites into you so much more up north than down here, even though it's technically the same temperature. Putting on a 4/3 in an 80 degree house was torture but the other side of that equation, be careful what I wish for... :roflmao:

I have some corroded booties (not required south of VC and they just stagnated in garage for several years) that should hopefully hold together long enough until I get a new pair up north. One thing you can't buy online - definitely need to try them on. Hadn't even heard of heat socks before. Good to know. Thanks.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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More like howling onshore, but the rest is accurate. The Bodega Bay buoy has 10+ kt NW winds just over 50% of the time.

You're going to be surfing the most in damp/drizzly conditions with 48-54 degree air and water. 3mm boots will do you fine, especially if you buy the Solite Custom Pros with the heat socks. Gloves aren't really necessary.
...
That NW wind is what makes Steamer Lane the most consistently good spot for miles in N Cal. Those aerial photos which show how it faces south with the swells refracting around the point illustrate what a fantastic place it is. Getting waves there as a visitor will have its challenges though.

I wore gloves throughout this winter in the mornings. I am ok without them, but I operate a keyboard for a living and was getting fed up with pressing the wrong the keys.
 
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doc_flavonoid

Billy Hamilton status
Dec 27, 2019
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That NW wind is what makes Steamer Lane the most consistently good spot for miles in N Cal. Those aerial photos which show how it faces south with the swells refracting around the point illustrate what a fantastic place it is. Getting waves there as a visitor will have its challenges though.

I wore gloves throughout this winter in the mornings. I am ok without them, but I operate a keyboard for a living and was getting fed up with pressing the wrong the keys.
lane is not in norcal bro b
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
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Kento, Then that is no good then if the next size up is going to attempt to compress your posture. I think China is always going to sell us stuff, but our prime minister has also managed to upset China by demanding a WHO inquiry into how covid got started in Wuhan. China retaliated by blocking our imports of barley, beef and now they initiated an anti dumping investigation into our wine exports. The latter export is relevant to your move, because I have seen "Sonoma" written on many wine bottles, I like red wine and enjoy a glass just about every day.

I used to be fairly laissez faire about all this world trade, but the virus highlighted the sorry state of australian manufacturing when we don't even have the machinery to manufacture a decent number of simple paper masks. Its also created a cheap asian import un-environmental throwaway consumer situation. Normally when a wetty starts to leak the rubber has lost its insulation properties any way, but my leaking patagonia seems to have its rubber intact - with the density of bicycle inner tube I suppose this is not surprising. I am going to see if I can get the seam in crotch locally repaired. Plus I am really fond of my patagonia - it has that really cool flying fish holding a pitch fork insignia on the back - such a status symbol and makes me feel really rich :roflmao:The peoples republic wont' like my choice of wetty - Patagonia outsource to Sheico Company which is based in Taiwan - their "renegade state" :roflmao:

The heavy rubber density of the patagonia begs the question why is it so warm? It has no smoothskin either. My xcel drylock is a tad warmer, but then it is 0.5mm thicker. My xcel still warm after 4 seasons due to the way it gets rotated with the rest of my extensive wardrobe, but neoprene on the elbows collapsing from when I rest them on the deck when duck diving.

There have been much complaints about the patagonia on this forum - the lining made of recycled plastic bottles or something being like fibreglass, but I wear rash vests, so that is not an issue (have 3 rash vests, picking up a sopping wet rash vest out of the bucket and putting it on in wind chill is horrible). I remember when trying it on the shop assistant advised me to take my time, but I shocked the assistant by getting into it extremely fast with ease. I am hyper mobile, but there is nothing about getting into a chest zip that puts any of my joints close to the extremes of their motion range, it all comes done to a procedure. I suppose I do some strange shoulder shrugging wriggles when trying to sink my neck into my torso to pull the hood over my head.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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not really. compared to those town spots where kento is headed is victory at sea

i actually feel sort of bad for him
sorry, I didn't explain very well what I meant. I can't find the article now, but the surfline travel page on Santa Cruz pointed out that it was not technically in N Cal, however I got the impression that it was a common misconception - so much so that it is not a big deal as to consider it being there - or am I completely wrong?

That's what I meant by the Lane being the best quality spot for miles - I meant literally miles as in distance.- in the both directions actually. North and south - unless there are super consistent secret spots with perfect wind/swell refraction setups that I don't know about. I was commenting yesterday on where I live now as comparable to the San Francisco open ocean beach - "too big and blown out half the time".

Ocean beach really is an unusual place - a big city right next to the surf, but frequently near empty even on surfable days. I never got it classic and big like what it is famed for, but used to head there on the rare days when SC was not going to be good. I had a number of enjoyable sessions in wind disrupted messy conditions when it got small enough.

Talking of SF, where is LeeD? I used to enjoy his posts, I know some of you found him too larger than life to be credible, but I reckon he is the real deal. He just knew too much to be fabricated it. Plus he got a mention in William Finnegan's award winning autobiography "Barbarian Days"!

 

LifeOnMars

Michael Peterson status
Jan 14, 2020
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That NW wind is what makes Steamer Lane the most consistently good spot for miles in N Cal. Those aerial photos which show how it faces south with the swells refracting around the point illustrate what a fantastic place it is. Getting waves there as a visitor will have its challenges though.

I wore gloves throughout this winter in the mornings. I am ok without them, but I operate a keyboard for a living and was getting fed up with pressing the wrong the keys.
except the lane sucks, mushy crap most of the time
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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except the lane sucks, mushy crap most of the time
if your statement was intending to dissuade outsiders from point and slot too, then I can back you up - I say good luck with catching a wave there on any board :roflmao: Instead I recommend visitors try Cowell's beach, they will be more warmly received there.
 

LifeOnMars

Michael Peterson status
Jan 14, 2020
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if your statement was intending to dissuade outsiders from point and slot too, then I can back you up - I say good luck with catching a wave there on any board :roflmao: Instead I recommend visitors try Cowell's beach, they will be more warmly received there.
lived behind lighthouse field for 4 months within walking distance, saw it good only a handful of times. mush burger with poor shape, consistent yes good hardly ever
 

Chee-to

Michael Peterson status
Jan 11, 2002
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sorry, I didn't explain very well what I meant. I can't find the article now, but the surfline travel page on Santa Cruz pointed out that it was not technically in N Cal, however I got the impression that it was a common misconception - so much so that it is not a big deal as to consider it being there - or am I completely wrong?
Not only is it not technically in Northern California, it's south of the geographic center of the state.

There are two schools of thought on this.

1. SoCal = Border to Point Conception, CenCal = Point Conception through anywhere where locals will be mean to you, NorCal = Santa Cruz and SF, north of that doesn't exist. The surfers north of SF are fine with you all believing this.

2. SoCal = Border to Pt C, CenCal = Pt C to SF, NorCal = Marin to Oregon. Sorry, see #1. North of SF doesn't exist. Marin County is a fantasy land first referenced in a Dead song, like Fennario, Narnia, or Honah Lee. Bob Weir made it up while high. "Mendocino" and "Humboldt" are marketing terms created by Madison Avenue to sell weed grown in LA warehouses, kind of like Haagen-Dazs ice cream and Templeton Rye. Del Norte is actually just south Portland.