10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

VonMeister

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Quite an old paper, & there are others since that say the opposite
You're right. I didn't want to have to admit this but you got me. The truth is to fix any physical ailment you just need to apply a 1:1 mixture of turmeric and CBD oil to the area and then shoot yourself in the balls with a theragun... preferably the new 24K Gold G3PRO Edition. You'll forget all about your back because turmeric and CBD oil are magic. Repeat as needed.
 

Mr J

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..Then they invented hard patches of muscle to defend this, but clinically these hard patches of bundled fibers have never been found.
… .
I thought we had agreed to call what llilibel and myself have described as "muscle spasms". I think you are right that "trigger point" is not a doctors term instead it is a term made up by masseurs to ply their trade.

So even though the "hard patches of bundled fibres" (whatever they are) that were being scientifically looked for could not be found, I can feel that sometimes a muscle is in spasm. It can either be localised or along a greater length of muscle. You keep mentioning "adhesions", llilibel didn't mention that term, neither have any of the masseurs who have treated me. I don't care what we call them.
 

One-Off

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PTs gave me this (the first exercise with rubber band). Do deadlifts and squats do anything for hip flexors?


This might upset VM, but this guy says deadlifts are not the cure all for the back. I'm also going to try some of the variations (of exercises I'm already doing- bridges and superman) in the second video-


 

Mr J

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I agree with all of this. I also agree with treating the symptoms along with the underlying issue for the placebo benefits alone. As you've made clear, the brain is powerful, and if it can trick us into thinking we're injured we can surely 'untrick' it.
The amount of discussion that the massage of spasms is getting here I feel is disproportionate in its role in fixing backs. Llilibel even said it made him worse. I go as far as "I think it helps", helps as in to calm down the spasm and maybe even have a slight knock on benefit to the well being of my back.

Its hard for me to say what has been the most helpful because I have done (and continue to do) all sorts of things. Just my gut feeling is the amount of work I have put into getting more core strength, the exercise ball may not be as macho as squatting 275lb, but it is possible to push the body until it is trembling with exertion - although I tend to stop when I reach that point and I don't suggest anyone try this first time or they would be aching like buggery with DOMS. Unlike VM I am not an impressive specimen, but the last time I presented myself to A&E after a skateboard accident the physio in the follow up appointment made the comment that I "must be very motivated" from the way my muscles/joints were operating.

I also didn't do the mind over matter approach - as demonstrated by the strongman who tweaked his back and carried on. I cannot know for sure, but I think calming down my symptoms with lifestyle adjustments and giving away surfing for a while also helped break the cycle I was in where I would be back on my boards within about a week of tweaking it then maybe a year or months later it would go again and also not be feeling good at times.

I am not pushing what I did on anyone, VM and Havoc are testament to what I imagine must be good form when lifting heavy weights. Its just a this is what I did. It might not help anyone else. I am also not invincible, its possible I may hit back trouble again in the future. Touch wood I hope not.
 

VonMeister

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PTs gave me this (the first exercise with rubber band). Do deadlifts and squats do anything for hip flexors?


This might upset VM, but this guy says deadlifts are not the cure all for the back. I'm also going to try some of the variations (of exercises I'm already doing- bridges and superman) in the second video-


Respectfully, I wouldn't give a person advice on treating advanced heart disease and your doctor is obviously not qualified to give advice on strength and training.

The rubber band exercise he gave you is the exact same rubber band and exercise he gave the 70 year old lady just before you. I'm guessing your much stronger than a 70 year old potato but only you can judge that. This underscores what I've been saying though. There is no way a rubber band is going to be anything useful or do anything for you, but your mind will wrap around it, after all, he's a doctor and you'll believe your doing something to get well.

The deadlift works every muscle in the body. The primary muscles are all the muscles in the back, from your neck to your tail bone, glutes, hamstrings, and the muscles in and around the hips, including and especially the hip flexors. During the deadlift every muscle in your body will be contracted isometrically as hard as you are able or the bar won't move.

I've known Jeff for years and he has a lot of good information to share but his focus is more geared towards aesthetics and not specific to making a person strong as quickly and efficiently as possible. If you're looking for a leaned out six pack look, he's your guy.
 
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One-Off

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Wasn't my MD who prescribed the rubber band flexor exercise it was two physical therapists.

I'm trying everything.

Funny thing. I went to my little sister's house for her birthday this evening and I was explaining about my back issues and how I am planning on lifting weights. I told her I was looking for a barbell. She said, "You can use mine." I was thinking pink dumbbells. She said, "It's in the garage." I went in and she had the full rack/cage/bench and 300lbs of weights with the olympic bar. My little sister!:ROFLMAO:

She's drinking the koolaid. Said someone at her gym recommended weight training. She tells me, "You have to do deadlifts and squats and bench presses" She had 95 lb on the bar but said that was just my 15 year old niece playing around. "You can deadlift a lot more than that." I was cracking up. My little sister. Whoddathunk?

Well now I have somewhere I can go to do squats and presses.
 

SurfDoc

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I guess they can be myths, but there is so much misinformation about low back pain and the diversity of causes is so wide it is a challenge to get a good history, perform an evaluation, and treatment paradigms become hit or miss.
 
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GWS_2

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I get actual knots in my upper/mid back. A good massage therapist can see them and will go right to them. Apply pressure and it hurts SO good. The knots will disappear with massage. Then so does the pain. I think it's tension. I get uptight and that's where I carry it. I think things just unconsciously get tense and it snowballs and starts hurting which makes more tension, which makes more pain... I don't know if you would call those trigger points. I suspect there are a bit of semantics going on with this...
 

Autoprax

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I think some people don't get those points of tension in the muscles that shall not be named so they don't think they exist.
 

VonMeister

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I get actual knots in my upper/mid back. A good massage therapist can see them and will go right to them. Apply pressure and it hurts SO good. The knots will disappear with massage. Then so does the pain. I think it's tension. I get uptight and that's where I carry it. I think things just unconsciously get tense and it snowballs and starts hurting which makes more tension, which makes more pain... I don't know if you would call those trigger points. I suspect there are a bit of semantics going on with this...
The "trigger points and adhesions" syndromes are much different than tension. There are predators making claims that somehow peoples muscle fibers turn into balls of immobile tissue with the only cure being magic hands. It's nonsense.

Tension is real and people carry it different ways. Posture, hunger, headaches, and what feels like knotted or spasmed muscles are real. I previously mentioned, humans have an emotional response to touch which is why things like stretching, massage, back scratching and even acupuncture feel good and relaxing. It's an important part of being a well adjusted person. Funny thing is the western world cultures by and large do what we can to avoid these physical/emotional connections and we have a lot of people in chronic pain. Meanwhile in developing areas of the world the emotional connection between people is embraced, they perform much tougher physical tasks day to day, have less access to good nutrition and medical care, yet suffer chronic pain in giant orders of magnitude less than people in the western world. Could stress be a cause or multiplier of chronic pain? Is it stressful to be some degree of an emotional shut in? We know stress is a tertiary cause of many other health issues, like heart disease, weight gain, high blood pressure etc.........
 
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VonMeister

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I guess they can be myths, but there is so much misinformation about low back pain and the diversity of causes is so wide it is a challenge to get a good history, perform an evaluation, and treatment paradigms become hit or miss.
Knowing this, the best course of practice would logically be to accept that pain is pain, and whatever a person defines as a painful experience is that persons pain. We don't need to come up with a reason for lower back pain for practice, nor is it particularly important or useful to find the root cause of lower back pain. When you do it leads the clinician or therapist to impose their perception of pain on the person seeking treatment which takes us down the path of endlessly trying to explain the unexplainable, rather than get a person healthy again.

You can make a determination on the state of health of the patient by using a number of acceptable tests and metrics and rule out a pending catastrophic event rather quickly. At this point, more important that anything else is to help a person understand that what they are going through is completely normal and recovery is imminent. Discussing causes using medical terms or the popular or trending "terms of the day" does nothing to promote healing and just reinforces the notion that a person is broken and likely will need to rely on indefinite treatment to live a full and healthy life.

Generally we know the cure for lower back pain is incremental improvements in movement and range of motion of the person and affected areas. We know that incremental increases in stress are the drivers of this improvement. We know that stronger bodies resist injury and when injured provide a more stable environment for the injured area and recover much quicker than weaker bodies. But first and foremost we know that the patients mindset will pace the recovery.
 

Mr J

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I guess they can be myths, but there is so much misinformation about low back pain and the diversity of causes is so wide it is a challenge to get a good history, perform an evaluation, and treatment paradigms become hit or miss.
reading accounts of back pain on this thread shows a diversity of causes.
Encladd grade 3 sprain of SI joint from impact - grade 3 is full tear isn't it? VM herniated discs and fractured vertebrae from impact. I didn't have any of that.Mine was more like llillibel's came on intensely after a bicycle ride, although there are some differences llilibel - mine became a reoccurring problem triggered by surfing/skateboarding whereas you are on your first one I believe and also my episodes don't sound as severe and long lasting as yours. Havoc, I haven't read anything about your story, tell us a bit about your back problems.
--> edit, sorry missed some people on this thread out. gbg, autoprax, everyone else. What are your back histories?

SurfDoc, you say there is so much misinformation about low back pain, do you seen any being passed on from us on this thread?
 
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One-Off

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reading accounts of back pain on this thread shows a diversity of causes.
Encladd grade 3 sprain of SI joint from impact - grade 3 is full tear isn't it? VM herniated discs and fractured vertebrae from impact. I didn't have any of that.Mine was more like llillibel's came on intensely after a bicycle ride, although there are some differences llilibel - mine became a reoccurring problem triggered by surfing/skateboarding whereas you are on your first one I believe and also my episodes don't sound as severe and long lasting as yours. Havoc, I haven't read anything about your story, tell us a bit about your back problems.
--> edit, sorry missed some people on this thread out. gbg, autoprax, everyone else. What are your back histories?

SurfDoc, you say there is so much misinformation about low back pain, do you seen any being passed on from us on this thread?

Yes, it would be good for the Doc to alert us about misinformation, but I imagine he's a busy guy.

Mine pain has localized to my right hip. Maybe was SI joint issue? Who knows. Pain is still very present but this weekend I started to do burpees. The dynamic aspect of burpees, compared to all the stretches and exercises I've been doing scares me a bit. I keep telling myself I'm fine. I'm probably in better shape than ever, as before I never did very much training. I was always of the opinion that surfing was the best training for surfing. But, now I believe I am officially an "old guy" so a new regime will begin.

Next step- moving from the 10 lb dumbbells to the bar bell I just ordered.
 
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gbg

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Stop all the weight training for a couple months and focus on stretching.
 
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One-Off

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Stop all the weight training for a couple months and focus on stretching.
I have not really been lifting weights other than adding 10 lb dumbbells to some of my exercises. All the MDs and PTs said weight lifting was good but all recommended to start when the pain was gone. So I've been doing mostly body weight stuff. And stretching. I do the stretch you recommended but it's still feels sketchy- hips still tight and when I creep forward with my fingers I always reach a point where my lower back twinges that makes me back off.

The curved back seems to be a faux pas persona non grata in all training/physical therapy info. The cat-cow yoga move is one of the few that bends the back. That and the "child's pose" which I might add feels really good in my present condition. I will ask my PTs about it next visit.


The only thing I haven't done is serious weight lifting, but that's coming...
 
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gbg

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This was advice I got from a kinesiologist with a masters degree and 25 years experience and a long list of professional athlete clients.
 
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