10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
1,928
1,150
113
Regional Vic, Australia
Maybe you should stop guessing?

Its going to be different for everyone. I've arrived at squatting 275# for a set of five as my arbitrary number because the demographic I work with responds well when they reach that point and after that there are diminishing returns and we begin to move into the personal preference range, be it feeling, athletic performance etc etc. There are some lifters who due to genetics and or age will never reach that goal because they started much to late in life or for any number of reasons do not have the capacity to reach that goal. For them, training continues as a part of living a healthy full life.

Instead of twisting things and focusing on doing the absolute bare minimum you could look at the in a very simple and logical way. We know injuries are going to happen at some point. Would you rather be 1. injured and weak, or 2. injured and strong.
That's a good answer, not everything is all theory and research, it takes experience with real people over time to be good at coaching or rehab - a health professional has told me exactly that and you have been doing that. I assume that you are doing real in person coaching and not online stuff? Its very easy for a novice to get carried away with weight lifting and get hurt, I don't think it is suited to online coaching or for those who want to push their limits. I would imagine you would need to see for yourself how your student is moving and how much they are exerting themselves. The more gentle stuff such as GMB is more suited to online.

Your point on better to be injured while strong - I have had shoulder surgery - about 20 yrs ago I wish to point out! Anyway there was a bit of a wait for the op and the physio put me on a shoulder strength program in preparation. I questioned that wouldn't it be more important after the op than before - the explanation was that I would bounce back much faster with the post op rehab if I went into it strong.

I have no argument with your suggestion that maybe I should stop guessing. Ideally I would be looking at a personal coach to take some of the guesswork out. The reality is there would be an opportunity cost. To stay in a reasonable budget I would be looking at discontinuing my long term maintenance program, which is chiro adjustment and massage every 3 weeks. I consider myself to be in a fairly good place coz the chiro lifts weights and I therefore have easy access to information and advice specific to me. I'm also getting feedback from the massage therapist who can spot things going on such as things tightening up. I've already given the example of the back hyper extension which I have corrected and might have caused me problems down the track if I hadn't. Also the piriformis tightness which I would not know about.

The personal trainer would cost and I would need gym membership. Unlike the chiro and massage I won't recover any of the cost from my health insurance.

I won't rule out a personal coach in the future, its going to take a life changing event for me to do that, but they happen. Maybe you should consider trying a deep tissue massage as part of your post workout recovery. I guarantee the therapist would find muscle knots and tightness that you are not aware you have. Whether relieving it with manipulation is helpful I know is a matter that we have debated. However not everything in coaching and rehab has been proven with research papers - some of it comes down to experience and perception. A bit like that 275 number you have come up with, although I concede that weight training is one of the more clear cut things to monitor.
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
What does "responds well" mean?
Some people are more sensitive to training stress than others. If you are highly sensitive to training stress you can get stronger faster or adjust your program to get stronger according to your plan but require less training stress to get there.

Havoc for instance is running a program where the program volume day for squats is 5 sets of 5. This volume is used to drive strength gains on intensity day. If you can meet your strength gain goals by only doing 3 sets of 5 on volume day you could consider making that change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
not sure about your stop sign analogy, but dissecting your first paragraph down to the generalisation that body-building encourages narcissistic self image there could be some truth in that. My point is that it is not so clear cut.

At one end of weightlifting there is the competitive bodybuilder whose ultimate goal is how they look on the stage, then the polar end has the competitive powerlifters and olympic lifters where it is all about the numbers of weight lifted off the ground/rack. However no one on this thread is a competitive power or Olympic lifter are they? Weightlifting can bring some physical appearance benefits, so if you enjoy that, then that's body building isn't it?

I therefore assumed that some of you are crossing over into recreational body building. The stage of the recreational body builder is the office or social event. One of the sports scientists I work with lifts weights. Not competitive, likes to wear t-shirts that show off his physique. I would say he is body building. He is a decent bloke though, does not look down on those who aren't fit or strong. Then there is the bloke at the end of my street, 10 years younger than me - a retired policeman. Appears to be comfortably off, owns a nice car and boat he hardly uses. Retired with PTSD, mental problems and a physical mess, has the muscle tone of a lump of jelly. Nice enough person, but I steer clear of him coz I am not a people person and not good at listening to other peoples problems. I'd rather deal with someone who takes more care of themselves and has more self respect.

Part of my back program has been to improve my posture with everyday lifestyle changes and some exercises. Over 12 years or so I have straightened out, not perfect, decades of sloppy sitting can't be cancelled out, but I enjoy having better posture and feel better about myself. So I don't see anything inherently wrong with enjoying better aesthetic benefits from lifting. Some individuals are more well rounded than others, so handle that sport better.

The superstar bodybuilders make the world a more interesting place too. I thought Terminator 2 was an awesome movie :) Plus many if not all bodybuilders do include athletic numbers goals, that is numbers in terms of kilos of iron lifted off the floor as opposed to just body circumference.
No, I don't do online training but there's nothing to suggest that online coaching is more prone to injury. No coaching or bad coaching is what leads to injuries. Novices don't get hurt at a higher rate than advanced lifters.

Part of my back program has been to improve my posture with everyday lifestyle changes and some exercises. Over 12 years or so I have straightened out, not perfect, decades of sloppy sitting can't be cancelled out, but I enjoy having better posture and feel better about myself.
Sitting isn't normally dangerous or harmful. Are you doing some version of extreme sitting?
 
Last edited:

PRCD

Kelly Slater status
Feb 25, 2020
9,208
5,638
113
not sure about your stop sign analogy, but dissecting your first paragraph down to the generalisation that body-building encourages narcissistic self image there could be some truth in that. My point is that it is not so clear cut.
How about lions? Are male lions bigger than female lions?
At one end of weightlifting there is the competitive bodybuilder whose ultimate goal is how they look on the stage, then the polar end has the competitive powerlifters and olympic lifters where it is all about the numbers of weight lifted off the ground/rack. However no one on this thread is a competitive power or Olympic lifter are they? Weightlifting can bring some physical appearance benefits, so if you enjoy that, then that's body building isn't it?
Most people are doing it for aesthetics and athletics.

I therefore assumed that some of you are crossing over into recreational body building. The stage of the recreational body builder is the office or social event. One of the sports scientists I work with lifts weights. Not competitive, likes to wear t-shirts that show off his physique. I would say he is body building. He is a decent bloke though, does not look down on those who aren't fit or strong. Then there is the bloke at the end of my street, 10 years younger than me - a retired policeman. Appears to be comfortably off, owns a nice car and boat he hardly uses. Retired with PTSD, mental problems and a physical mess, has the muscle tone of a lump of jelly. Nice enough person, but I steer clear of him coz I am not a people person and not good at listening to other peoples problems. I'd rather deal with someone who takes more care of themselves and has more self respect.
I'm training for hypertrophy right now. There are longevity benefits, but if I'm going to be honest, there's plenty of narcissism in it. That's what the tight t-shirts are for: to show off.

Part of my back program has been to improve my posture with everyday lifestyle changes and some exercises. Over 12 years or so I have straightened out, not perfect, decades of sloppy sitting can't be cancelled out, but I enjoy having better posture and feel better about myself. So I don't see anything inherently wrong with enjoying better aesthetic benefits from lifting. Some individuals are more well rounded than others, so handle that sport better.
Stop getting offended by the stuff VonMeister says. If I had to guess, he deals with a lot of broscience and woo and that, over the years, has made him this way. Do whatever you want.

The superstar bodybuilders make the world a more interesting place too. I thought Terminator 2 was an awesome movie :) Plus many if not all bodybuilders do include athletic numbers goals, that is numbers in terms of kilos of iron lifted off the floor as opposed to just body circumference.
They make the world a less honest and healthy place. My boys run around talking about Thor's physique when the reality is he has elite genetics and is on gear. We cancelled DIsneyPoz because these Marvel movies are a bad influence on them. Watch Greg Doucette's take on some of the actors who are using gear. The Rock is trying to look the best he ever has in his late 40s and his heart and arteries are going to pay a high price for all the gear required to do so. Meanwhile, young men will think this is ideal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

PRCD

Kelly Slater status
Feb 25, 2020
9,208
5,638
113
No, I don't do online training but there's nothing to suggest that online coaching is more prone to injury. No coaching or bad coaching is what leads to injuries. Novices don't get hurt at a higher rate than advanced lifters.
I taught myself from SS and their DVD. Novices can set up a camera and film their lifts and critique them on their own or post them here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
11,235
6,085
113
33.8N - 118.4W
I taught myself from SS and their DVD. Novices can set up a camera and film their lifts and critique them on their own or post them here.
Is this the one?

 

Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
6,025
8,823
113
in da hood next to paradise
I taught myself from SS and their DVD. Novices can set up a camera and film their lifts and critique them on their own or post them here.
i do remote coaching and it flat out works. worth the $$. stoked on my progress.

i want to get back in the gym tho. prev coach during in person training at my gym was a us strengthlifting record holder. he trained one of the girls to get her squat to 365 for example
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
i do remote coaching and it flat out works. worth the $$. stoked on my progress.

i want to get back in the gym tho. prev coach during in person training at my gym was a us strengthlifting record holder. he trained one of the girls to get her squat to 365 for example
365 is an impressive lift for a woman. Women today, even ones that aren't training for powerlifting are getting so much stronger than before.

An adult male who can't squat 225 for a set of five.....as a male is functionally useless. He should just go see a surgeon and make the sex change official.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
1,928
1,150
113
Regional Vic, Australia
...Sitting isn't normally dangerous or harmful. Are you doing some version of extreme sitting?
lol, it feels like it at times!

I had no idea about the injury rate of online vs in person coaching. Was just trying to assess it from my man off the street view - some of the numbers being talked about are serious amount of iron. General question - is training to failure done any more?
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
1,928
1,150
113
Regional Vic, Australia
I taught myself from SS and their DVD. Novices can set up a camera and film their lifts and critique them on their own or post them here.
setting up a camera is a good idea. I think I suggested that to llilibel last year. I did it during lockdown for the one leg DL. It was revealing, I have been using a really light weight so no problem with safety, but I was using my knee a lot more and less of my glute than I imagined myself to be.

So go on then show us yer ... lifts. We are all friends here, no one is going to use it for online bullying.
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
lol, it feels like it at times!

I had no idea about the injury rate of online vs in person coaching. Was just trying to assess it from my man off the street view - some of the numbers being talked about are serious amount of iron. General question - is training to failure done any more?
I don't recommend it as it's not useful for positive strength and conditioning outcomes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr J

PRCD

Kelly Slater status
Feb 25, 2020
9,208
5,638
113
how does it work Havoc? video post analysis only OR live, 2 way communication over zoom? Entire session monitored?
You're overthinking this. Get the SS DVD and the book and make work.
 

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
how does it work Havoc? video post analysis only OR live, 2 way communication over zoom? Entire session monitored?
When practical it's always best to have an in person training session first and then online from there...unless your coach see's that safety is going to be an issue. Otherwise the lifts are recorded and sent or uploaded to your coach who critiques your form and gives you cues to improve. Individual training sessions are given to the trainee based on progress and how the coach see's the trainee progress with respect to correctly performing the lifts. Online training a coach would be more likely to reduce weight and allow the trainee to develop skills before adding too much stress. In person you have more control via hands on so you can get things sorted in real time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc and Mr J

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
11,235
6,085
113
33.8N - 118.4W
setting up a camera is a good idea. I think I suggested that to llilibel last year. I did it during lockdown for the one leg DL. It was revealing, I have been using a really light weight so no problem with safety, but I was using my knee a lot more and less of my glute than I imagined myself to be.

So go on then show us yer ... lifts. We are all friends here, no one is going to use it for online bullying.
I mentioned about my sister's full cage set up. I wanted to borrow her 35lb plates to move to the next level, but she told me my 17 year old niece is working with a coach and needs them. Well since she's working with a coach I figured I'd send her a video. I sent her a video of me doing a deadlift. Her reply?

"You need to clench your butt when you lock out." :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Is she yanking my chain?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Mr J and Havoc

VonMeister

Duke status
Apr 26, 2013
18,382
5,357
113
JOE BIDENS RAPE FINGER
I mentioned about my sister's full cage set up. I wanted to borrow her 35lb plates to move to the next level, but she told me my 17 year old niece is working with a coach and needs them. Well since she's working with a coach I figured I'd send her a video. I sent her a video of me doing a deadlift. Her reply?

"You need to clench your butt when you lock out." :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Is she yanking my chain?
You don't need to clench your butt. It happens automatically. It's one of two things. You're not locking out, which is full extension at the top....or the weight is too light and full glute activation is not necessary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
6,025
8,823
113
in da hood next to paradise
365 is an impressive lift for a woman. Women today, even ones that aren't training for powerlifting are getting so much stronger than before.

An adult male who can't squat 225 for a set of five.....as a male is functionally useless. He should just go see a surgeon and make the sex change official.
totally agree. Most women hit that number at my gym in 3 months without any prior training.

how does it work Havoc? video post analysis only OR live, 2 way communication over zoom? Entire session monitored?
Upload top sets of the week to true coach and get video breakdown and feedback on my form. Coach does all my programming and can watch bar speed etc. and make adjustments. Coach it’s an SS coach which is pretty hard to get certified. They also do live zoom classes with multiple ppl but my schedule is fkd so i can never make them. I Did in person training prior which is optimal. I have a platform, power rack, bench, power bar and 500 lbs of weights at home tho. Some duuus record at the gym. I got my own set up at home bc I’d get in fights with all the idiots trying to curl in the squat rack when I used to train at golds gym. Fkn morans.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr J