10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

VonMeister

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Having lower back pain for the first time ever this past week. Do I have to read all 56 pages of this thread or can someone sum it up for me? :roflmao:

Tweeked it slightly while surfing and then long plane ride followed by carrying board bags and backpacks probably half a mile to car followed by hour and a half drive home from the airport. Been pretty buggered up since. Never had lower back pain before in my life. Peaked on Tuesday and ever so slightly better every day since.
Keep moving as pain allows. It's not cancer. It's not debilitating. There's noting un-normal or un-natural. If you start stressing about it or fucking with it your going to be asking questions about to for the next year. If you want to get stronger to prevent future injuries or heal faster when the inevitable happens there's good ways to do it and silly ways to waste a lot of time.
 
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Mr J

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... The coaching cues for those lifts aren’t rocket science and were a big part of the study materials/exam.Program design too.
I haven’t read it in a while but I’m pretty sure anything you know and then some I can find in the CSCS manual or here
Or in a book by Poliquin, Staley, Dan John, etc.


If the CSCS was so worthless why did your bf the juicy Dr J of Barbell Medicine see the need to get one.

“The NSCA Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) certification is the gold standard in the strength and conditioning field.
Personal trainers, strength coaches, sports physical therapists, athletic trainers, and others try to tackle this exam to demonstrate advanced knowledge regarding training and science pertaining to athletes.
The CSCS exam is notoriously difficult with a pass rate of around 56%. In this article, I will give you tips and strategies regarding how to study for and pass the CSCS exam.”



I agree with you, squats and deadlifts are not rocket science, the movements are very simple to do. There are a few things to watch out for so we don't hurt ourselves, but for someone who just wants to build some protective strength, is not competitive or wishing to push personal limits it does not need hours of technical coaching. For someone who is really serious or competitive that's different. My chiropractor uses a strength coach for "legs day" training i.e heavy squats and deadlifts. As an aside Von Meister tells me squats and deadlifts are not leg exercises - whatever!

Qualification/certification matters for our health practitioners. Chiropractors need 5 years in Australia by government requirement. Physios are required to be qualified to be allowed to practice too. Massage therapists have some sort of certification. I can see the other side of things though - these sort of practitioners practice what I consider to be black art. Manual skill and intuition for understanding the patient/student is needed to be good at their profession. Sports coaching is very much in the black art realm. So I don't see it as necessarily surprising or bad that there is not always clear regulated certification for things such as strength training. Anyway I think its good you got a CSCS - that gives you some credibility in my books. I also consider my chiropractor to be supremely qualified at advising a man off the street like me on how to lift!
 

Mr J

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Tbh I’m not that impressed at all by ATG/Knees guy.
He looks tall, so big fucking deal that he can dunk now.
No mention anywhere I looked as to what his credentials are.
All his magic secret methods look over complicated and dumb.
Pro athletes aren’t any better than the average Joe at discerning what constitutes valid training methods. I met a guy who was training an active LHW UFC fighter. Had him doing circuits on the machines at the gym like the old people do.
So without going into his credentials what I liked about ATG/Knees guy was that he was demonstrating impressive athletic ability. Just like there is more than one definition of intelligence there is more than one definition of athletic ability and he was showing the sort that I can appreciate - great mobility and strength to body weight ratio, plus he wasn't in a gym and his maintenance routine was meant to be quite quick to do. When I used to do taekwondo I could do that semi front splits position and lower myself forward until my chin touched the ground - I needed to have my arms straight down behind my back to reduce body weight load - he was doing it with a weight on his back/shoulders.

I don't feel the need to do that now, but here are three things I picked up from that video that did not look overly complicated or dumb:
I'm already doing the jefferson curl - cheers Autoprax. I now plan to make myself an inclined step for that extra stretch when I am ready.

Those one leg calf raises on a step is something I could easily do with no equipment - currently I am just stretching (2 types - bent leg for lower calf and straight leg for upper calf), but reckon some load would be good.

That piriformis stretch on the ladder - when I saw that a light bulb switched on in my head - I have good hip mobility and no hip pain or issues, but despite this every time I get a massage the masseuse finds a really tight bit in my upper hips just to the rear. So there must be some plane in which my mobility is limited, but I couldn't find it - the ITB stretch didn't seem to get it. At home I can lie with my body weight on a spiky ball and get it to loosen, but I have been thinking there must be a better way. The masseuse gave me one which didn't help. However when I tried the ATG ladder stretch it seemed to get that area - I used a convenient bar stool instead of ladder. Showed the masseuse this morning and the response was "that's it!". The therapists can be good but they don't know everything. Thanks llilibel for that vid :)

PS thanks for the heads up on GMB I haven't looked into it yet, but I will - I am always interested in fine tuning things. Just as a bit of background the last week has been typical of what I do. Sunday rest. Monday, surf and skim morning and evening, some stretching - no weight jerfferson curls and various stretches. Tues surf twice then push ups on exercise ball. Jack knifes on exercise ball. Planking with legs on ball and just one arm on floor - gets the core reflexes firing to maintain balance - 30 seconds each arm. Side planks - 2 types one of which does adductors. Jefferson curls with light weight. Rest wed. Thurs, fri sort of similar to mon/tues. Saturday morning skateboard, chiro/massage. Rest tomorrow. That's quite a lot for my 60 yr old body, so no room for any real heavy stuff - there is such a thing as overdoing it. I will however be re-introducing one leg dead lifts when daylight saving ends. I like them, but its been hard to fit it all in with my current morning/evening surf schedule.

edit--> there is actually a bit more to my weekly routine than that, there are various stretches I haven't mentioned - also doing body weight only bulgarian split squat - I can easily do it with dumbbell weight, but slowly lowering myself down for eccentric load and an isometric pause at the bottom for 10 seconds seems to work my flexors well. My after surf routine doesn't take long though and some stretches are done on the beach after exercise.
 
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Chocki

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Youtube and e-books links. You're a consumer. :roflmao:

I share knowledge based on my experience and advice from others I trust. With everything in life, I hope I can help but YMMV. Take some all or none..I don't care.

You share YouTube links of stupid human tricks.

I know Dan John. Let me know if you want me to make an introduction.

I don't care why anyone would get a CSCS. Generally it's the only way for guys like you to get insurance for your job drawing in suckers for 30 bucks a month at the local globo gym. It That's the value....30 bucks a month. Claiming that only 56% of people can pass it (which isn't true, everyone who pays passes) shows how bad at this people like you are. It's not like it's proctored. There isn't a single online certification for anything on earth that only 56% of people can pass.:roflmao: Not a good look gymBro.

Like I said ding ding dong. You claim you have a CSCS but I know with 100% certainty you could not competently design or coach a person though any strength and conditioning program or coach anyone how to properly perform any lift.
“In the MLB, the CSCS certification requirement extends to coaches working with Double-A Minor League teams and up. For the first time ever, the 2017 NBA collective bargaining agreement requires an NSCA CSCS certification for S&C Coaches working in the league, and National Basketball Strength and Conditioning Association (NBSCA) President, Bill Burgos, has strong support from S&C Coaches within the NBA to make the RSCC distinction a standard throughout the league.”
 
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Chocki

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So without going into his credentials what I liked about ATG/Knees guy was that he was demonstrating impressive athletic ability.
So I did some more research into ATG/Knees guy. He’s a Poliquin guy ( https://www.google.com/search?q=poliquin+charles&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari ).
Poliquin is 100% worth looking into some more along with Paul Chek and Pete Egoscue.

But I would never hitch my wagon to a one trick pony.

Which is why I love Max. He’s the Bruce Lee of strength & conditioning.
Take what you need and leave the rest.
Very open minded.
No one size fits all, cookie cutter approach.

But what first put him on my radar (I was interested in Kettlebells at that point) was what a super freaky athlete he was.


1616242523455.jpeg



 

Chocki

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Youtube and e-books links. You're a consumer. :roflmao:

I share knowledge based on my experience and advice from others I trust. With everything in life, I hope I can help but YMMV. Take some all or none..I don't care.

You share YouTube links of stupid human tricks.

I know Dan John. Let me know if you want me to make an introduction.

I don't care why anyone would get a CSCS. Generally it's the only way for guys like you to get insurance for your job drawing in suckers for 30 bucks a month at the local globo gym. It That's the value....30 bucks a month. Claiming that only 56% of people can pass it (which isn't true, everyone who pays passes) shows how bad at this people like you are. It's not like it's proctored. There isn't a single online certification for anything on earth that only 56% of people can pass.:roflmao: Not a good look gymBro.

Like I said ding ding dong. You claim you have a CSCS but I know with 100% certainty you could not competently design or coach a person though any strength and conditioning program or coach anyone how to properly perform any lift.
Sounds an awful lot like sour grapes to me lol.

Programming I like:

 

Autoprax

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Most people don't train.

If you do anything with some intensity it's going to bring about positive neural adaptation.

The key is to find training that you like.

Then you will adhere to it.

I was thinking of a hip thrust machine that is hooked up to a flesh light.
 
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Chocki

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Having lower back pain for the first time ever this past week. Do I have to read all 56 pages of this thread or can someone sum it up for me? :roflmao:

Tweeked it slightly while surfing and then long plane ride followed by carrying board bags and backpacks probably half a mile to car followed by hour and a half drive home from the airport. Been pretty buggered up since. Never had lower back pain before in my life. Peaked on Tuesday and ever so slightly better every day since.


 
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VonMeister

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Sounds an awful lot like sour grapes to me lol.

Programming I like:

It's like I can see the future. :roflmao: More ebooks fanboi. Why would you take a hyper specific program and apply it to a novice lifter? :roflmao: What do you do when somebody else's program doesn't work or stops working?

You're just a consumer. :roflmao:
 
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Mr J

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From the sounds of it I think GMB would be a good fit for you.


Yes, you are on the right track there. It is harder to pick out ideas and assess from just their free stuff than the ATG knees guy, but their aim and philosophy is right up my street If You Can't Do It In Jeans, You Can't Do It GMB Fitness

Just like they say I don't want to dress up and go to a gym, I want to do my routine at home in jeans. I find going surfing, skimming and skating more fun than working out so don't want to spend hours on a program or commuting to some fitness centre. I also subscribe to their idea that good hip mobility makes everyday life easier. Take this morning for instance, I was using a hand saw to take the bottom off a sticking door. I don't have proper saw horses, so set it up on some low plastic boxes which meant I would have to bend over if standing. My back is fine nowadays and it wouldn't have caused me problems, but wouldn't have been comfortable. However, I could easily do a one legged squat on top of the door and with my other leg on the floor I was stable low and comfortable. Actually not dissimilar to one of the poses I saw on the GMB site.

High hip mobility is not for everyone though. I used to follow a "surf trainer" on social media, admittedly more for entertainment than seriously hoping to pick up tips. Very mediocre looking skills in the water, but had an incredible dry land pop up without using the feet and that skill and core strength looked very real. Then it turns out she was getting out of that role because of some detached hip labrum problem and the hip mobility stretching she was demonstrating was actually making it worse.

All that stretching I used to do for taekwondo and the stretches I still do, don't seem to be causing me any hip problems, so it suits me.
 
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Mr J

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“In the MLB, the CSCS certification requirement extends to coaches working with Double-A Minor League teams and up. For the first time ever, the 2017 NBA collective bargaining agreement requires an NSCA CSCS certification for S&C Coaches working in the league, and National Basketball Strength and Conditioning Association (NBSCA) President, Bill Burgos, has strong support from S&C Coaches within the NBA to make the RSCC distinction a standard throughout the league.”
NBA is big money, if they require CSCS then it is not to be dismissed. The article also mentions 2 NFL teams who require what looks like the level beyond CSCS (I am not familiar with these qualifications). Thats just 2 teams mentioned though, coz NFL teams are doing their own thing. I work for a sports science company which does have some NFL on their books. I am not a sports scientist, nor a data scientist, just a code monkey who works with the formulas that the clever people come up with. The clubs are all over the numbers and analytics, if we were to do something called "changing their data" i.e changing the way the formulas work without at least agreeing up front, they would get very upset. On the other side of things there are apparently a few top coaches with proven track record (in the minority) who don't work with the sports science - do it all traditional - I don't know what traditional methods means coz I'm not very interested in football lol. So it shows sports training has a black art component and not all academic.
 

PRCD

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Some fanboism makes sense if it's evidence-based. If the "expert" is citing papers and at least running experiments on himself and clients with hard data, it's OK to like him. I'm a Rippetoe/SS fanboi to an extent. SS published some great stuff over the years. These guys have to make money, so of course they're going to sell programs.

But a lot of these "experts" provide no evidence for their claims and just kind of wink and say, "Trust me/Look at me." This is bad fanboism.
 
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Chocki

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Youtube and e-books links. You're a consumer. :roflmao:

I share knowledge based on my experience and advice from others I trust. With everything in life, I hope I can help but YMMV. Take some all or none..I don't care.

You share YouTube links of stupid human tricks.

I know Dan John. Let me know if you want me to make an introduction.

I don't care why anyone would get a CSCS. Generally it's the only way for guys like you to get insurance for your job drawing in suckers for 30 bucks a month at the local globo gym. It That's the value....30 bucks a month. Claiming that only 56% of people can pass it (which isn't true, everyone who pays passes) shows how bad at this people like you are. It's not like it's proctored. There isn't a single online certification for anything on earth that only 56% of people can pass.:roflmao: Not a good look gymBro.

Like I said ding ding dong. You claim you have a CSCS but I know with 100% certainty you could not competently design or coach a person though any strength and conditioning program or coach anyone how to properly perform any lift.
I’d love for you to introduce to me Dan John. He’s a fucking legend.
Then I’d love for you to tell him what a stupid, worthless, old hippy he is for advocating crawling on the ground.

 

Chocki

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Some fanboism makes sense if it's evidence-based. If the "expert" is citing papers and at least running experiments on himself and clients with hard data, it's OK to like him. I'm a Rippetoe/SS fanboi to an extent. SS published some great stuff over the years. These guys have to make money, so of course they're going to sell programs.

But a lot of these "experts" provide no evidence for their claims and just kind of wink and say, "Trust me/Look at me." This is bad fanboism.
The proof is in the pudding

Core of Max’s program for free
 
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VonMeister

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Zercher :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Someone who is in need of a strength based program and your best option is the dumbest exercise ever invented as a starting point. :roflmao:

You know who doesn't do Zercher squats. Max Shank. He does steroids. He uses fake weights when filming many of his lifts...but Zercher squats...nah...except when he's selling them to fanbois looking for someone NEW!, EXCITING! and THE GREATEST EXERCISE SECRET NO ONE WILL TELL YOU! on the internet :roflmao:
 
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VonMeister

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I’d love for you to introduce to me Dan John. He’s a fucking legend.
Then I’d love for you to tell him what a stupid, worthless, old hippy he is for advocating crawling on the ground.

Your problem is you're just a consumer and have no idea what you're reading. You don't know why or when Dan would recommend bear crawls or any other tool he uses for a trainee. You read an article and you think you're an expert now. Dan also wrote plenty of material on hill sprints and strongly recommends them......but you know who he doesn't recommend them for dummy???? Novice trainees whose sole focus is getting stronger. Dan knows, because unlike you he is intelligent and experienced, that any training activity outside of the main resistance lifts in a strength focused program is going to be useless at best and likely harmful to progress. Dan knows the difference between catabolic and anabolic. Dan knows one size doesn't; fit all and because your favorite YouTuber does something doesn't mean it's appropriate for everybody or anybody. Dan will be the first to tell you that if your focus is getting your squat or deadlift numbers up or just looking to build general strength the last thing you will want to do it hill sprints.....but again, he recommends them for specific trainees.

My trainees... and me do plenty of things aside from lifting based training. It's all part of intelligent programing. It's why it's called Strength and Conditioning, and not Strengthconditioning.

If you want to read articles about bear crawling, knight yourself as the bear crawling expert and slide around on your belly crotch gazing...more power to you.
 
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