10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

One-Off

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Mr.J- DOMS is not a problem for me. Lack of DOMS is. I was wondering why I never get it in my back since that's what I'm trying to work on. When I get DOMS it's always in the hamstrings (adductors). If I want to run I just wait a day. It has not prevented me from doing anything for more than a day. I make sure I don't do any weight work Thursday and Friday since I'm a weekend warrior/surfer.I'll surf Saturday and Sunday and Sunday I'll also do a long (8-13) mile run. Weight Monday and Wednesday. Trying to figure out where to fit in dynamic body weight stuff.

VM- I agree with you that MDs generally don't know much beyond their specialty. Weight lifting got mostly blank stares from my MDs. My PT instead encouraged me to do weights. Before the pandemic I saw another PT in that office working with a guy, doing squats with empty olympic bar. So they obviously use it.

If I'm doing light weights with enough enough reps you say I'm getting stronger, but at a certain point the adaptation stops. It becomes maintenance at that point? I'm wondering at what point I'm good to go (surfing) and can just be on a maintenance routine? I think I know your answer, though...it's something like a 275 lb deadlift, amirite? I'm behaving like one of my students trying to figure out what's the least amount work he can do and still get a D.
 
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VonMeister

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I feel that is an adult male can squat 275 pounds for a set of 5 he's strong enough for anything life can throw at him. There's plenty of men walking around that are strong enough to squat 275 pounds for a set of 5 but couldn't come close to doing it because of lack of technique. You don't have to use a barbell. It's my implement of choice due to the simplicity of it and the absolute unquestionable superior results you get from it compared to anything else. Getting DOMS more than one, that one time being the first time you trained is the result of a shitty program or shitty coach.

What ever equipment you have, you have to make it work so add sets and reps and work towards a level of fatigue that is manageable. If it gets easier than it's working.

Somewhere along the way surfers changed from rugged adventure seekers to sensitive waifs. Mickey Dora could assfuck anyone on todays WCT with little resistance. These guys surfed more for much longer than the pros of today....They could do real turns but they couldn't do airs so there's that. Why are pro and regular surfers injured so much nowadays?

I get that WCT surfing is a hyper specialized sport and to be judged against todays criteria you need to be a jockey.....but the other 99.99999999% of us aren't on the WCT, aren't earning a living surfing, and are just trying to stave off injury and death long enough to check turn another wave to the beach or throw a shitty turn that sure felt like Slater.

If you want to surf better, surf more. There is nothing you can do on land, no unbalanced surface training, no functional twisting super terrific sagittal pane nonsense, no self suck stretching routine or mystical eastern yoga technique that is going to translate to surfing.

If you want to surf longer, get stronger and better conditioned.
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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Mr.J- DOMS is not a problem for me. Lack of DOMS is...
Oh I see, you think DOMS is a requirement of a successful workout. I have never looked at it like that. For me DOMS tends to happen when introducing a new activity (whether it be strength training of some sort or new sport). If I keep that activity up it tends to not happen e.g I don't get it from planking with my exercise ball. Also randomly - I think VM found it funny that sometimes I get it from my hobbies. Some muscles seem to be more prone to DOMS than others - I would have thought that the deadlift works the lower back out plenty and no need to experience DOMS, but I am not an expert on this subject - VM, Havoc - opinions please?

Just for what I want to do if I get DOMS that goes on for more than one day and interferes with my primary hobbies (surf, skim, skate) then I consider myself to have overdone it from an inconvenience point of view - its a waste of life to spend 2 days recovering.
 

Mr J

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I would never suggest that strength training is a method to blindly apply to someone who is in real pain. Strength training is a means to protect yourself from injury and a valuable tool during the rehab phase to 1. help with recovery by using managed activity, and 2. to get a person stronger so their bodies are better equipped to resist the forces that cause injury to begin with.

Consulting with your doctor is always the first and best step when appropriate....but so many people are afraid to have a two way conversation with their doctor and just accept blindly what he has to say. 15 years ago my neurosurgeon told me to never pick up anything heavy again and to find different physical activities that were more appropriate for my "condition". I walked out of that office with the thought that one false move and I was a cripple and back surgery was inevitable. My family doctor said that was crazy and that, while I was in pain there was nothing out of the ordinary and to plan on doing whatever I felt like as the pain resolved. Which one was the specialist?

If physical therapists were good at what they do, why is recovery from non specific back pain just about non existent? Not all...but most of these "specialists" have decided that it should be a lifelong ailment that needs to be endured...treated by nonsense and behavior modification. By and large the "specialists" are dogshit herd animals who punch clocks for 20 bucks an hour while knowing jack sh!t about pain and recovery. Sure they can recite physical anatomy, point to which muscle insertions are where and understand the difference between distal and proximal or extension or flexion...but when it comes to pain, they are more likely to pull the alarm and yell fire than get a person back to health.

When a person is hurt they don't need to run off to a doctor. Sensible recovery starts at home. Rest up for a couple days during the acute phase and add activity as needed. Once able...see a strength and conditioning "specialist" and be better than you ever were before. It's really as simple as...Life happens..would you rather be hurt and weak or hurt and strong.
VM, I agree with much of what you just said, in particular paragraph 1. I was saying to lilibel only a post or 2 ago that a massage therapist told me strong glutes helps protect the lower back. Way back in this thread I said that a physio has told me this too - for the shoulder - he put me on heavy (for me) dumbbell overhead presses (Arnold press). Bicep curls too. His reasoning that an extra strength buffer helps in those situations where we accidentally push our joints over their normal exertion range e.g skateboard slam, rugby tackle. Interesting that you don't think that an extra flexibility buffer can't help protect against things like over extending calf or groin beyond normal range. Having said that I was definitely not prescribed regular stretching to increase mobility of my unstable shoulder - that would have been bad (except immediately post op when it needed loosening).

Yes, GP never fixed any of my biomechanical problems and no need to run off to a specialist when a bit of rest will sort it out.

Strongly disagree with paragraph 3. Physios, massage therapists, chiropractors etc can sometimes sort out a problem. Something that is an ongoing argument between us is that you don't believe muscle imbalances can happen - well I have had them and had them sorted by physio and podiatrist.
 
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Mr J

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..Getting DOMS more than one, that one time being the first time you trained is the result of a shitty program or shitty coach.
..
Seems like we have similar ideas regarding the value of DOMS, although I wouldn't be panicking if it took a few workouts/sessions to get past that DOMS stage.
 

VonMeister

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VM, I agree with much of what you just said, in particular paragraph 1. I was saying to lilibel only a post or 2 ago that a massage therapist told me strong glutes helps protect the lower back. Way back in this thread I said that a physio has told me this too - for the shoulder - he put me on heavy (for me) dumbbell overhead presses (Arnold press). Bicep curls too. His reasoning that an extra strength buffer helps in those situations where we accidentally push our joints over their normal exertion range e.g skateboard slam, rugby tackle. Interesting that you don't think that an extra flexibility buffer can't help protect against things like over extending calf or groin beyond normal range. Having said that I was definitely not prescribed regular stretching to increase mobility of my unstable shoulder - that would have been bad (except immediately post op when it needed loosening).
It's not just me. It's 100% of people who are qualified to have an opinion. What do you consider extra flexibility? There's a medical term for it..... it's called hyper extension.

Yes, GP never fixed any of my biomechanical problems and no need to run off to a specialist when a bit of rest will sort it out.

Strongly disagree with paragraph 3. Physios, massage therapists, chiropractors etc can sometimes sort out a problem. Something that is an ongoing argument between us is that you don't believe muscle imbalances can happen - well I have had them and had them sorted by physio and podiatrist.
Your story is like the woman who took her car to an oil change place and left with a 700 dollar bill...including paying for nitrogen in her tires.
 

VonMeister

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@VonMeister what are your thoughts on the reverse hyper as an add on exercise? Worth investing in the machine?
No. Westside Barbell is a freak show. Ex cons juicing up lifting equipped and squatting high. There's nothing going on there that I would recommend for general strength and conditioning.

Holding your lumbar spine in extension during a squat or deadlift is enough. If you want to reverse hyper you can do it off a counter or the top of a stairwell by getting someone to hold your feet. Of just lie on the ground and do Superman's.
 
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VonMeister

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For those of us without a squat rack, do you have a deadlift equivalent for that?
The deadlift and squat are two different exercises....with the squat being the king of all lifts and is why I use it as the benchmark. I would just continue doing what you can. lunges and split squats are good exercises....then squat when you have access to the necessary equipment.
 
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VonMeister

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My cardiologist knows I'm lifting. He just said don't go really heavy (although that is pretty subjective) and to watch the heart rate. I just had a phone appt with him this week and he gave me green light to use creatine, Autoprax's miracle drug. I guess as long as I go slow and incrementally I could conceivably increase weight over time without stressing the heart too much...
This morning I was lazy and finding excuses not to train. When the guilt finally set in I got started. Todays main lift training plan was deadlift single at RPE8, 1 set of 4 at RPE9 and 2 sets of 4 minus 8% from previous set. Second warm up set I felt a pop....like a back crack, just facet joints realigning themselves. Third warmup set I felt pressure and tightness building. Didn't think it was a big deal so I started on singles. second single felt good...bar speed was OK but out of caution I decided a potential set back wasn't worth it and I stripped the bar down to 225 and did 7 sets of 5 and just concentrated on bar speed. I'm sitting here right now feeling and knowing that I got good training stress and am better for it.

There's a bit of tightness in my lower back but nothing that I haven't been through before and I know I will be 100% on Monday for heavy squats. After lunch going to do 30 minutes on the Echo bike at a pace just above annoying and probably train pull ups to be active and reenforce that there's nothing wrong.

Don't worry about the raw weight. Worry about the work.

Also...as I was being a lazy pig I dropped a 45 pound bumper plate on top of my foot from about mid thigh height (that's one Skully high) when I was loading it on the bar. It went from numb to it fucking hurts in the last hour. A lesson in remaining deliberate when training.
 

bluengreen

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About a month ago i had another issue with back pain caused simply by bending down to put a bike tire on the ground and lifting back up. Felt a sharp pain in my low back and then pain in the glute. I could barely walk. First week it was bad enough that I need led to take some hydrocodone to sleep.

De gave me a steroid pack. My left foot is numb and I have zero strength in the left calf. It can’t support my weight if I try to stand on my toes with the left foot and I can’t lift my heel with the weight on my left foot. No problems doing so with my right.

I had similar problems on the right side a few years ago and have MRIs to compare. New MRI saus something about a desiccation of the disc or nerve and a 12 mm herniation. Not sure if I have all that correct need to look at the report again.

so deadlift doctors will squats and deadlifts eliminate the numbness in my foot and bring back the function of my calf which is useless at the moment. I have no pain anymore.

Previous incidents have left part of my right foot permanently numb.

what say you? Talk to a. Surgeon or deadlifts and squats?

You have VERY serious symptoms. STOP lifting and all explosive activity, or you will only further damage your spine and nerve. Don't talk to a surgeon either.

Get on a high dose course of steroids (Prednisone), which will reduce inflammation to manage your pain and form a protective sack of fluid around your nerve. Then you should be doing very conservative PT. Your body should heal itself if you take it slow. Hyperextension "press ups" will encourage the disc material to reabsorb. As pain and nerve function recover, you can slowly introduce appropriate levels of stress that will further encourage healing and make you less prone to similar injury in the future. If you want to left weights, they will be the VERY LAST phase of your recovery, which according to your symptoms is many months down the line.

Listen to your body. It's telling you that you are acutely and traumatically injured.

I can't believe people on this thread just overlooked this post of yours and continued talking about deadlifting. Hope you ignored all that bullshit. You are potentially jeopardizing proper nerve function if you continue. Ask Autoprax.
 
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Random Guy

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About a month ago i had another issue with back pain caused simply by bending down to put a bike tire on the ground and lifting back up. Felt a sharp pain in my low back and then pain in the glute. I could barely walk. First week it was bad enough that I need led to take some hydrocodone to sleep.

De gave me a steroid pack. My left foot is numb and I have zero strength in the left calf. It can’t support my weight if I try to stand on my toes with the left foot and I can’t lift my heel with the weight on my left foot. No problems doing so with my right.

I had similar problems on the right side a few years ago and have MRIs to compare. New MRI saus something about a desiccation of the disc or nerve and a 12 mm herniation. Not sure if I have all that correct need to look at the report again.

so deadlift doctors will squats and deadlifts eliminate the numbness in my foot and bring back the function of my calf which is useless at the moment. I have no pain anymore.

Previous incidents have left part of my right foot permanently numb.

what say you? Talk to a. Surgeon or deadlifts and squats?
Read the book
 

Random Guy

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You have VERY serious symptoms. STOP lifting and all explosive activity, or you will only further damage your spine and nerve. Don't talk to a surgeon either.

Get on a high dose course of steroids (Prednisone), which will reduce inflammation to manage your pain and form a protective sack of fluid around your nerve. Then you should be doing very conservative PT. Your body should heal itself if you take it slow. Hyperextension "press ups" will encourage the disc material to reabsorb. As pain and nerve function recover, you can slowly introduce appropriate levels of stress that will further encourage healing and make you less prone to similar injury in the future. If you want to left weights, they will be the VERY LAST phase of your recovery, which according to your symptoms is many months down the line.

Listen to your body. It's telling you that you are acutely and traumatically injured.

I can't believe people on this thread just overlooked this post of yours and continued talking about deadlifting. Hope you ignored all that bullshit. You are potentially jeopardizing proper nerve function if you continue. Ask Autoprax.
Or just read the fvcking book
 

Random Guy

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Healing back pain
By dr John sarno

I cannot believe that it helps anyone
Yet it helped many people I know
Many erbbers
Including me