10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

Mr J

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 18, 2003
985
54
28
Melbourne Australia
Getting coached on the lifts is most important. If u deadlift or squat wrong u will fk up ur back
I agree with that, looking up the correct form on the internet is not good enough, someone to watch and tell us what we are doing wrong is important. I have squatted - a long time ago. I didn't get trained by a qualified coach, but was getting tips from some of the experts at the gym.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

Mr J

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 18, 2003
985
54
28
Melbourne Australia
F...kin brain! It must have been an unconscious danger signal, because my conscious mind at the moment was enjoying a really nice, sunny, early morning surf (with mild irritation that the rising tide was slowing things down). Even when it started cramping my mental reaction was, "Just the cold, try stretching." I was not anticipating or perceiving a serious "threat" or "danger." Not consciously.

I'm getting better. I keep pushing. Yesterday I ran 4 miles. Today I was crawling around under my car, changing oil. every evening my back is sore. I find it hard to accept that the pain is just benign nerve input and that there's nothing physical going on...

If it's just mental, unconscious, I need to find a way to get into my unconscious and rough that f'fer up, tell him to stop sending false signals.

Asshole! I'm missing surf!
My chiropractor would disagree with the idea of ignoring pain and doing whatever I felt like during the recovery phase, however that was for my particular problem, your situation might be different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havoc

VonMeister

Tom Curren status
Apr 26, 2013
11,168
371
83
THE TERRORIST OF TERRAMAR
Havoc and VM, how do you avoid overuse when combining heavy lifting with another sport (surfing)? I am doing dumbbell exercises once a week for shoulders - just maintenance, not trying to be on an ever increasing strength program and I usually do it on wed or thurs, coz I'm normally stuck in the city thur/fri and I can get a rest day from surfing before paddling in the surf again. I get the impression that you both must be squatting more than once a week and wouldn't that hinder surfing?

I work for a sports science company and it is not a requirement to be a sports participant (don't need to be fit to be say a data scientist or coder, although the sports scientists seem to be capable of recording their own high intensity activity to test the equipment/software). Nevertheless the general culture of the place has ended up with a high percentage of sports nuts in the workforce and it can be interesting to compare notes. My bosses wife (middle aged) holds some sort of gym record for squatting and he tells me it cured her back problems. However, a sports scientist colleague told me his hip has never been the same since the time he did squats one day then went and played football the next day and something tweaked in his hip.
If he hurt his hips squatting there was a form issue. I don't know if he was squatting high or low bar but there are common errors with both that can lead to hip pain.

I squat 3 days a week and deadlift twice. Only one squat and deadlift day is heavy, the others are more of stress accumulation. Regarding fatigue management, it depends on your strength and conditioning program how much you are sleeping, nutrition, and age. If you are only concerned with driving up weight totals you're going to be in a constant stress/recovery condition and other activity isn't going to feel very good. Also there's no reason to have huge squat and deadlift totals if your not planning on competing or enjoy doing other activities aside from squatting and deadlifting. That said, everyone should train for general strength and if you don't have the equivalent strength capable of squatting and deadlifting 1.5x bodyweight you're going to pay for it later. The medical science on strength training is settled and people who are strong live better and more robust and healthier lives in their 60's, 70's and 80's. I want to be surfing till I die.

You can choose how you want to get strong. Dumbells, machines...whatever. Me, I choose a barbell because it is the quickest most efficient way to get whole body strong and I don't have a lot of time to waste doing it other ways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr J and Havoc

Havoc

Michael Peterson status
May 23, 2016
2,297
489
83
in da hood next to paradise
ya my goals are 2xbw dl, 1.5xbw squat, 1xbw bp, and 0.75xbw press. these are mediocre strength goals that i’ve seen ppl at my gym hit in 2-3 months. bc of surfing n lack of recovery (pita job, young child at home) my progress has been slower. recovery and gaining weight are the two most imp things for training.
 

llilibel03

Miki Dora status
Jul 28, 2005
5,339
178
63
I’m actually thinking bout quitting surfing for couple months to get my strength up and then starting up again. Surfing fks up my recovery from the heavy lift days.
I'm probably on a different wavelength than you...

All I want to do is surf. I've missed two weeks because of this back thing and I am not a happy camper. :cursing:
Weight training to me is just to keep me surfing, not an end in itself.

I've never had any interest in weight lifting or going to the gym. The idea of working out at a gym seems really boring to me. My only other activity has been running and when I running I'm on the strand (at the beach) or in the mountains. I hear a lot of people who say that running bores them to tears. And it's usually the gym rats who say that. Different strokes I guess.

One observation though- Dr. Baraki towards the end of his presentation says NOT to obsess about form when lifting. He says the body can adapt. He then says the important thing is to add weight incrementally. Maybe your statement that bad form can f..up your back only applies to those who are going for lots of weight, one or three rep type stuff?

Finally, in February I have my annual check up with the cardiologist. I have that myocardial bridge thing. With regard to running I was told to keep heart rate at 80% of max. I do that, but it's a slow pace for me. I will have to ask about the stress on the heart of weight lifting... I know it's much different that running or paddling.
 

VonMeister

Tom Curren status
Apr 26, 2013
11,168
371
83
THE TERRORIST OF TERRAMAR
Form matters but it's the mix of too large of a weight increase with bad form, or just too much weight and trying to grind through it that causes injury.

When coaches stress form it's not because one false move will hurt you, it's the slow degradation in form that comes from not focusing on it that winds up costing you in the end. Me personal belief is that it's not form, but the change in form under load that hurts you. You need to stay tight under load.

There's been a lot of study on weightlifting on the heart due to the heavy valsava when lifting a heavy weight. If your doc isn't up to date on it, or gives you the standard take it easy answer that DR's like to give when they are unsure, ask him to look into it....or check "up to date", which is the doctors google.
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Tom Curren status
Apr 27, 2016
11,914
1,174
113
Your mom�s house
The wife was diagnosed last January after an episode where she experienced shooting pain and numbness down her left arm and into her hand. I've never her seen her (or anyone else for that matter) so debilitated by something like that. She had an MRI and saw two MDs who recommended surgery/fusion but she has been able to manage and avoid it thus far through chiropractic care. The issue with numbness and pain has been present for a few years. She has improved over the last year but has seemingly more bad days than good and is getting pretty frustrated with it. She is working really hard to avoid surgery and exploring all kinds of other options, but gets very symptomatic after exercise and and even stretching. She is in pain daily and it limits her activity.

Do you (or anyone) have any recommendations for exercises or resources we could use? Would love if she could get some QOL back as she's really been struggling with finding a better normal.
Epidural injections and daily traction.

Do the the traction for the rest of your life.

Worked/is working for me.

4 years ago I had such horrific nerve pain in shoulder, tricep, lat, forearm that I asked my wife to kill me (and I meant it).

Got an injection in two discs and made a traction device that use almost daily.
 

llilibel03

Miki Dora status
Jul 28, 2005
5,339
178
63
Form matters but it's the mix of too large of a weight increase with bad form, or just too much weight and trying to grind through it that causes injury.

When coaches stress form it's not because one false move will hurt you, it's the slow degradation in form that comes from not focusing on it that winds up costing you in the end. Me personal belief is that it's not form, but the change in form under load that hurts you. You need to stay tight under load.

There's been a lot of study on weightlifting on the heart due to the heavy valsava when lifting a heavy weight. If your doc isn't up to date on it, or gives you the standard take it easy answer that DR's like to give when they are unsure, ask him to look into it....or check "up to date", which is the doctors google.
What's the standard take? So I'll know if he gives me that. He initially told me not to run the marathon after my diagnosis. Only let me run wearing heart rate monitor. When I told him I intended to run it, he just looked blank. Said, "Walk if you fell chest tightness." I ended up running, and finishing, without walking, slow (for me) but sub four hour marathon.

I do walk when I feel chest tightness. But this MD errs (?) on the side of caution. Of course my condition, with sudden cardiac arrest as one of the symptoms, warrants some caution.
 

Mr J

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 18, 2003
985
54
28
Melbourne Australia
If he hurt his hips squatting there was a form issue. I don't know if he was squatting high or low bar but there are common errors with both that can lead to hip pain.

I squat 3 days a week and deadlift twice. Only one squat and deadlift day is heavy, the others are more of stress accumulation. Regarding fatigue management, it depends on your strength and conditioning program how much you are sleeping, nutrition, and age. If you are only concerned with driving up weight totals you're going to be in a constant stress/recovery condition and other activity isn't going to feel very good. Also there's no reason to have huge squat and deadlift totals if your not planning on competing or enjoy doing other activities aside from squatting and deadlifting. That said, everyone should train for general strength and if you don't have the equivalent strength capable of squatting and deadlifting 1.5x bodyweight you're going to pay for it later. The medical science on strength training is settled and people who are strong live better and more robust and healthier lives in their 60's, 70's and 80's. I want to be surfing till I die.

You can choose how you want to get strong. Dumbells, machines...whatever. Me, I choose a barbell because it is the quickest most efficient way to get whole body strong and I don't have a lot of time to waste doing it other ways.
He didn't hurt his hip during the squat session, it got injured the next day when he played football. He blames it on doing another sport before he had recovered from the squats. He can't know for sure of course that was the reason, but he attributed it to overdoing things.

Anyway, you have answered my question on managing weights with other sports - you have figured out the overall load your body can handle and you aren't pushing the limits every weight session.

I am led to believe that free weights are better than machines for building overall/protective strength.

I gave your response a big thumbs up, although I am not doing squats and deadlifts, not because I don't believe in them, but because I reckon I would be overdoing it on my legs. I feel I am at my limit with what my legs can handle from skateboarding and surfing. Right now I do have a mild bit of soreness in my glute from several days of surfing in a row - when that happens it normally means I have had a good time and not too many crappy sessions, although this time I think it is coz I skated 2 days in a row, then went on an overnight flight back to Oz which isn't ideal recovery, then went surfing lol
 

Mr J

Gerry Lopez status
Aug 18, 2003
985
54
28
Melbourne Australia
I'm probably on a different wavelength than you...

All I want to do is surf. I've missed two weeks because of this back thing and I am not a happy camper. :cursing:
Weight training to me is just to keep me surfing, not an end in itself.

I've never had any interest in weight lifting or going to the gym. The idea of working out at a gym seems really boring to me. My only other activity has been running and when I running I'm on the strand (at the beach) or in the mountains. I hear a lot of people who say that running bores them to tears. And it's usually the gym rats who say that. Different strokes I guess.
...
You are replying to Havoc, but yeah, we got to work with what interests us or what we can mentally tolerate. I can't be bothered to go to a gym anymore. I live in a 1 bedroom apt so some dumbbells, a pullup bar installed in a doorway and one of those big inflatable silly balls is all I can practically fit in there and have the motivation to use lol

Despite the equipment I described if Charles Atlas was alive today, he would tell me that I am going to get sand kicked in my face when I go to the beach.
 

VonMeister

Tom Curren status
Apr 26, 2013
11,168
371
83
THE TERRORIST OF TERRAMAR
What's the standard take? So I'll know if he gives me that. He initially told me not to run the marathon after my diagnosis. Only let me run wearing heart rate monitor. When I told him I intended to run it, he just looked blank. Said, "Walk if you fell chest tightness." I ended up running, and finishing, without walking, slow (for me) but sub four hour marathon.

I do walk when I feel chest tightness. But this MD errs (?) on the side of caution. Of course my condition, with sudden cardiac arrest as one of the symptoms, warrants some caution.

When it comes to the heart, personally I would be cautious but I would also seek out opinions of other doctors. With everything we challenge the experts, seek advice from others etc except for doctors. We tend to listen to what the doctors tell us and live with it....except they are no more or less fallible than anyone in any profession.

I would find a cardiologist that runs marathons and see what he/she says.
 

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
33,647
744
113
Vagina Point
How old are you?

I would quit the marathons.

It's okay to dial things back.

That doesn't mean you don't run.

Dial it back so you can keep the party going all night.
 

llilibel03

Miki Dora status
Jul 28, 2005
5,339
178
63
I was planning on trying ultramarathons when I retire and have more time. But I've given up that idea. I think it's like the weight lifting- you keep trying for more.

With regards to lifting, if I get a barbell set and have no rack or bench (like Mr. J, I'm limited on space) what would be the essential exercises? For general and specifically surfing health ? For the overhead press and squats, if I'm not gong for really heavy weights, can you just clean lift and proceed?
 

NorthOC75

OTF status
Feb 5, 2010
329
12
18
I had lower back pain for 10 years. Sometime I would bend over to pick something up and I wouldn't be able to bend back up. I had not lifted weights since high school. I got a 24 hour fitness membership and started a beginners weight training program, which I did for 6 months. It completely cured my back issues. Even three years later, I don't have any back issues at all. I just felt great too. I need to get back on the program!
 
  • Like
Reactions: VonMeister