10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

One-Off

Tom Curren status
Jul 28, 2005
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Question for VM. I watched this video because this week I have my appt with the cardiologist.


She says that you are not at a greater risk for stroke or aneurysm while performing Valsalva during a lift because the tension in the rest of your body creates pressure in the cranium (cerebral spinal fluid) that balances out the pressure build up in the circulatory system.

Would that be true for lighter exercises too? Like push ups and pull ups? I notice that I tend to hold my breath doing push ups and I remember someone telling me not to do that.
 

VonMeister

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You're going to breathe when you need to. I wouldn't say the valsalva is necessary when doing pushups. It's more of a max load type of thing to build pressure internally and help keep everything tight and stable. I don't even think about doing it for things other than lifting, but I would venture to guess that I subconsciously do it when pop up or do anything else that requires a burst of exertion. If there's ever surf again I'll pay attention. generally you don't want to be breathing during an anaerobic movement though. Breath between reps or at rest position. This is natural and again, I think it's something that you already do without thinking about it.
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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....
One thing this injury has brought to light is how weak I am. Post injury when I started doing squats and lunges I was surprised how weak my quads were. The only activities I did before the injury were surfing and running. I've always been of the mindset- "the best exercise for surfing is surfing." I only started running to get cardio when I couldn't surf. Now, at 58, I'm going to have to change the mindset....
...
Consider your back incident as a positive useful life changing event. It is a temporary setback which has triggered you into doing something about protecting your future robustness and extending your surfing life. You will be a rebuilt man, stronger than ever.

You cannot blame your mid-length board for the back spasm, i see plenty of intermediate surfers on mid-lengths and they are not hurting their backs. Blame weak core strength, which you are doing something about.If your are getting 20+ waves a session and popping up with good form then yes surfing alone should keep you strong, the reality is that us ordinary people spend a disproportionate amount of time paddling which is fine for lower back muscles, but going to do very little for the front and sides of the core. Us ordinary/old people need to do some extra training.IMHO strength training is going to be better for you than running. In my books strength training includes body weight exercises and for specific conditions rubber bands too.

Sounds like you are using some common sense when listening to what the respondents on this thread are telling your. None of us are qualified medical professionals -
 
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Bob Dobbalina

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Haven't been able to walk for any significant period of time, or sleep thorough the night, or move without considerable pain and spasming for just over a month. Breathing to full capacity, getting up and down, getting out of bed...all excruciating. I'd scream in pain, but the exertion required hurts, so I just whimpered. I wasn't great for the 4 ,months prior to that, but I was feeling well enough to start running a few miles, swim, yoga, etc.

Anyway
Got my MRI Scan back today. The Cliff's Notes version is
Significant bulge in L2-L3 causing inflammation and serious narrowing of nerve canal.
L3-L4 slight bulge
L4-L5 diffuse disc bulge significant narrowing of canal
L4-S1 diffuse disc bulge

As I read it, the majority of my lumbar region is impacted. I have an appointment with a specialist on Wednesday and I presume we will be talking Cortisone injections and stuff.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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Haven't been able to walk for any significant period of time, or sleep thorough the night, or move without considerable pain and spasming for just over a month. Breathing to full capacity, getting up and down, getting out of bed...all excruciating. I'd scream in pain, but the exertion required hurts, so I just whimpered. I wasn't great for the 4 ,months prior to that, but I was feeling well enough to start running a few miles, swim, yoga, etc.

Anyway
Got my MRI Scan back today. The Cliff's Notes version is
Significant bulge in L2-L3 causing inflammation and serious narrowing of nerve canal.
L3-L4 slight bulge
L4-L5 diffuse disc bulge significant narrowing of canal
L4-S1 diffuse disc bulge

As I read it, the majority of my lumbar region is impacted. I have an appointment with a specialist on Wednesday and I presume we will be talking Cortisone injections and stuff.
Sorry to hear this.

You sound like how I was two months ago. But after 24 hours of intense pain I went to the ER and was given pain meds (opioids), steroids and NSAIDS. I was back to 70% after about 4-5 days, but to this day have pain. It sounds like you waited a lot longer before seeking help? And your symptoms came on gradually? Mine came on very suddenly.

If you've read through all the stuff written here you will discover that most bulges do not cause any symptoms. In my case three different MDs said not to get imaging (MRIs) done. Do you have tingling or pain radiating to other areas of your body? If not your prognosis is probably very optimistic. I would suggest you watch the videos Havoc posted. I'll link them here again (who'd have thought this thread would go on for 18 pages?).

It's a long journey that I just started. I thank everyone here who has given advice. It's all appreciated and leads me to investigate further.


 

VonMeister

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Haven't been able to walk for any significant period of time, or sleep thorough the night, or move without considerable pain and spasming for just over a month. Breathing to full capacity, getting up and down, getting out of bed...all excruciating. I'd scream in pain, but the exertion required hurts, so I just whimpered. I wasn't great for the 4 ,months prior to that, but I was feeling well enough to start running a few miles, swim, yoga, etc.

Anyway
Got my MRI Scan back today. The Cliff's Notes version is
Significant bulge in L2-L3 causing inflammation and serious narrowing of nerve canal.
L3-L4 slight bulge
L4-L5 diffuse disc bulge significant narrowing of canal
L4-S1 diffuse disc bulge

As I read it, the majority of my lumbar region is impacted. I have an appointment with a specialist on Wednesday and I presume we will be talking Cortisone injections and stuff.
The good news is there is nothing unique or extraordinary about your MRI results. I don't know how old you are but there are a lot of adults walking around with similar issues as you that are 100% pain free and unaware there is anything wrong with their back.

I will see if I can find my MRI report and copy paste it here, but from L-3 through S1 I had significant disc bulges with extruded fragments impinging nerve roots. Like you I was unable to walk for more than a few feet for several months and a pain free position was very temporary. I read the MRI's, listened to my docs and PT's and agreed that I was broken and needed to adjust my lifestyle and pain was something I was going to live with forever.....Until I wasn't. 12 months to the day after I started rehabbing I deadlifted 405 pounds and squatted 365.

The medical evidence is clear that cortisone injections are very rarely are successful long term for lower back pain. Many people feel worse after. I think they are the only treatment with a worse success rate than surgery for LBP.

I would recommend you find a good pain specialist that is an MD. There is relief and if it's a real doctor your insurance should cover it. I'm happy to point you to people that I think can help you get well but I think there's another hurdle you need to clear first that a pain specialist can work through with you.
 
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One-Off

Tom Curren status
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My barbell came. Put some 5 lb weights on it and did 7 deadlifts and my back feels better. What?
Psychological? Placebo? My instinct is this is not enough weight. But I'm going to build up slowly. And still all the other exercises I've been doing.

Bob, what's your age? Listen to VM. I believe the advice he is giving is sound.
 

Havoc

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My barbell came. Put some 5 lb weights on it and did 7 deadlifts and my back feels better. What?
Psychological? Placebo? My instinct is this is not enough weight. But I'm going to build up slowly. And still all the other exercises I've been doing.

Bob, what's your age? Listen to VM. I believe the advice he is giving is sound.
Get the 10lb bumper plates that have same diameter as 45lb plate or pull off a rack.
 
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Mr J

Michael Peterson status
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..

I watched these videos. After watching the Rippetoe deadlift tutorials, I was kind of appalled at how casually he did the lifts...I'm sure VM and Havoc would have some critiques...
… .
The experts didn't comment on the second vid you posted of the runner doing squats and deadlifts, so I will. Looks good to me - conventional wisdom has been keep straight lower back which he does. No sway back, no rounded back. See how he touched his upper stomach to make a point about keeping the core stable - need to keep the core tense when lifting to make sure the spine does not buckle. Do not let the core relax during the lift.

Perhaps the experts could comment on my comment?
 

Mr J

Michael Peterson status
Aug 18, 2003
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Stay tight? But I want to surf like the "Rubberman!"

Ironically the Rubberman was sidelined for good because of spinal (disc) problems.
llilibel, that was your response to VM telling you to keep the abs tight when paddling. You also gave a similar response to Autoprax's suggestion to keep the core stable.

VM some of my health professional would say some of your ideas are strange - such as your idea that there is no such thing as a muscle knot or a muscle imbalance and that elastic bands and exercises balls are a waste of time, but they would agree with you on that.

The best massage therapist I have had has unfortunately left the back centre, although his replacement is good. Anyway he noticed that I had been "hyper extending my back", how he could tell that when I was just lying face down on the table I don't know. Not being into surfing he didn't have any ideas why - although he was into skateboarding, MMA and kick boxing. So after self observing what I was doing when popping to my feet I could see that sometimes I was making mistakes and arching my back too much at times. The remedy is to not allow the back to arch too much by keeping enough tension on the front core, I retrained myself partly by making sure my hips were never pressed hard into the board when paddling around and still today I remind myself to keep the hips no more than just lightly touching - which means the abs have to stay under some tension to stop lower back tension from pressing the stomach into the board. The therapist noted that I did resolve that problem. This was well after I had resolved my back pain, but it was good to spot that I was setting myself up for future trouble and fix it up before it became a back pain problem.

Regarding Autoprax's suggestion and your concern that you would surf like the kook in the vid you posted I was told to stay away from surfing by my chiro for a few months because of the risky rotational forces it would place on my lower back. As mentioned previously I was allowed to continue skateboarding - was able to show the chiro some vid of my largely straight line low grade skateboard tricks. Some months down the track I asked the question, what if I want to do some rotational tricks and the answer was "tense the core". There is some cess slide type thing I like to do on flat banks and I once did tweak my back doing that, so I trained myself to tense the core when applying torque to get the wheels to break free into a rotational slide - maybe I do skate and surf like the kook, but I need to protect myself. I consider the backhand off the lip done with exertion to be safer than flopping around in turns - when going up the wave for that backhand lip hit we brace ourselves and can perform a high torque wrenching off the lip with a tight core - the tight core protects.
 
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VonMeister

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I don’t recommend not surfing because of risky rotational forces that are perfectly normal and well within what your back was designed to do.

I would also like to stress that taking advice from a massage therapist or chiropractor isn’t something I would recommend. Not cooking tips, not oil change and intervals for my car, not advice on how to re-roof the house, proper grass height for mowing, and certainly not advice on how to have a healthy back.
 

One-Off

Tom Curren status
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You guys know I was joking about the stiff torso and flailing limbs right? Although I don't know that I can think about keeping my core tight once I'm up and riding. Surfing is so automatic. Maybe as I'm paddling or even duck diving, but not while popping up or riding.

ps I tried to "tense the core" while sitting here and it felt like trying to sh!t. Is that what it's supposed to feel like?
 
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VonMeister

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You guys know I was joking about the stiff torso and flailing limbs right? Although I don't know that I can think about keeping my core tight once I'm up and riding. Surfing is so automatic. Maybe as I'm paddling or even duck diving, but not while popping up or riding.

ps I tried to "tense the core" while sitting here and it felt like trying to sh!t. Is that what it's supposed to feel like?
It depends. Are you trying to sh!t?
 

Bob Dobbalina

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Feb 23, 2016
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Sorry to hear this.

You sound like how I was two months ago. But after 24 hours of intense pain I went to the ER and was given pain meds (opioids), steroids and NSAIDS. I was back to 70% after about 4-5 days, but to this day have pain. It sounds like you waited a lot longer before seeking help? And your symptoms came on gradually? Mine came on very suddenly.

If you've read through all the stuff written here you will discover that most bulges do not cause any symptoms. In my case three different MDs said not to get imaging (MRIs) done. Do you have tingling or pain radiating to other areas of your body? If not your prognosis is probably very optimistic. I would suggest you watch the videos Havoc posted. I'll link them here again (who'd have thought this thread would go on for 18 pages?).

It's a long journey that I just started. I thank everyone here who has given advice. It's all appreciated and leads me to investigate further.
The good news is there is nothing unique or extraordinary about your MRI results. I don't know how old you are but there are a lot of adults walking around with similar issues as you that are 100% pain free and unaware there is anything wrong with their back.

I will see if I can find my MRI report and copy paste it here, but from L-3 through S1 I had significant disc bulges with extruded fragments impinging nerve roots. Like you I was unable to walk for more than a few feet for several months and a pain free position was very temporary. I read the MRI's, listened to my docs and PT's and agreed that I was broken and needed to adjust my lifestyle and pain was something I was going to live with forever.....Until I wasn't. 12 months to the day after I started rehabbing I deadlifted 405 pounds and squatted 365.

The medical evidence is clear that cortisone injections are very rarely are successful long term for lower back pain. Many people feel worse after. I think they are the only treatment with a worse success rate than surgery for LBP.

I would recommend you find a good pain specialist that is an MD. There is relief and if it's a real doctor your insurance should cover it. I'm happy to point you to people that I think can help you get well but I think there's another hurdle you need to clear first that a pain specialist can work through with you.
Yeah, common story I know. I turned 36 last week.

I've had similar issues off and on since my early 20's(laid up for a few moths before easing back into things) , and had some minor "oh sh!t" moments more recently that calmed down in a few weeks that sound like llilibil's experience. This instance came on by a pretty subtle movement (rolling out a yoga mat) but I'd describe it as a gradual slide toward my current experience that now escalated.
With L2-L3, it makes sense why I'm getting muscle spasms in my hips, groin, and core. I get pain from my low back, but in the last week it has shifted to the other side of my body, primarily spasming in my glutes, hips, and groin with pain radiating down my leg to my calf. The spasms are typically triggered when I stand up or when walking and turning my head. Lifting my hips, titling my pelvis, lifting my legs, all of these movements cause extreme pain. Other times, I'm able to do them, albeit slowly and cautiously.

Nsaids and a round of roids did not do it for me. Rest hasn't done it for me. Ice hasn't done it. Heat hasn't done it. The PT didn't have much for me.

I wouldn't waste my time getting an MRI if I was sore for a few days.

I know my core needs to be stronger. I know I need to lift weights. I like to stretch and do yoga even though I know that it might not help this issue, but it feels good. I know that imaging is the boogeyman for some. I know that people have bulging discs with no symptoms. I understand the concept of confirmation bias in terms of pain + imaging results = diagnosis. I've read the "I overcame it, don't get cut, doctors are shills for the corporate medical industrial complex" stories.

Nobody has told me I won't be able to do things. Nobody has said this will be forever.

I've got an appointment with a spine specialist tomorrow morning. Hopefully he has a plan. I'm open to injections, I won't consider surgery at this point, despite the current misery.
 

Bob Dobbalina

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Feb 23, 2016
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I would recommend you find a good pain specialist that is an MD. There is relief and if it's a real doctor your insurance should cover it. I'm happy to point you to people that I think can help you get well but I think there's another hurdle you need to clear first that a pain specialist can work through with you.
Can you elaborate on this some more? I'm with Kaiser at the moment.