“I just want to find 11,780 votes”

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
Pretrial supervision conditions are issued early on - and before the plea - so your point on this one misses the mark. Your best argument is that there's no conviction until the plea is certified. But even then, the timing of how this all could work makes the bet too vague. It was possible that he could have plead and been sentenced on the same day. It was also possible that he could plead and then be sentenced several months later. Neither of you anticipated any of this in the original bet, I'm sure. In fact, I don't expect either of you anticipated a plea at all.

In regular jargon, Surfdog probaby wins this bet because a plea is generally considered a conviction. In technical jargon, you probably win the bet because a conviction needs to formalized on the record. In reality, neither of you win the bet because there's no way to tell what you intended regarding a plea.
The soul of the bet was simple "conviction" by Sept. 30.

Period.

I had no idea there would be guilty pleas in this ordeal. I thought once charges were brought, they would go to trial.

But that didn't happen when he plead guilty. He didn't plead the 5th or not guilty.

And, this whole investigation is far from over with Clinesmith's sentencing now done.

I expect more charges in the coming weeks/months. Covid is slowing this whole process, like everything else, unfortunately.
They even had to do this whole charge/conviction/sentencing ordeal remotely with tele-com.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
a conviction is marked by filing a "judgement of conviction" even in cases that plea out

no such filing existed as of that date

the documents I link refer to pre-trial release and sentencing date on December 10th

keep shucking and jiving, Dog!

it's a joy to watch

drip drip drip
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
did Surfdog ever explain how this guy was "convicted" while they were arranging
for his "pre-trial release"?

that's quite a logical conundrum for him to find himself in...
 
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Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
There was NO TRIAL to be had once he plead guilty and the judge signed the waiver of his rights to have one.

Both done on Aug 19, 2020.

Pre-release was just formalities to take away his passport and other travel restrictions to help prevent fleeing during pre-sentencing release.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
There was NO TRIAL to be had once he plead guilty and the judge signed the waiver of his rights to have one.

Both done on Aug 19, 2020.

Pre-release was just formalities to take away his passport and other travel restrictions to help prevent fleeing during pre-sentencing release.
"pre-trial release" date set....passport surrendered to "pretrial services"

all right there in thee document in thee court's own words!

also, return for sentencing hearing and "if convicted, surrender"....

all in the document

please keep spinning your wheels, surfdog!

I love to see the excuses you make

you lost the bet in every fkn way imaginable

this is of course why you never address the merit of the clinesmith "conviction"

because you know that it in no, way, shape, or form comports with your ridiculous
claims of deep state coups and illegal investigations

clown boat goes choo choo!
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
How did he get sentenced then, without a conviction first?

You've NEVER answered/addressed that.

BTW, you did hear about the vast un-redacted documents dump last week of January.

It will take a couple/few weeks to sort thru, but supposedly some good nuggets to nail a few Obama Admin 7th floor FBI types in there (McCabe, Comey, and others, maybe Clapper too). We'll see in the next few weeks/months.
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
once again, your logic is flawed

like I showed you, quoted in the court documents

appear on December 10th and if convicted, be prepared to surrender to serve your sentence

in this case, it appears that the conviction was (originally) to be entered on the 10th during that appearance
at which time HE WAS ALSO GOING TO BE SENTENCED ACCORDING TO THE PLEA AGREEMENT

you keep asking the same stupid question and acting like it's logically impossible that the conviction
was going to be entered along with the sentence.

I'm saying it's logically impossible that he was convicted on that date because 1) there is no conviction
entered in record and 2) they only submitted a plea; it has to be accepted, the defendant convicted, and
the sentence rendered

all they did on August 19th was submit a signed plea agreement

and, as usual, you ignore the fact that this stupid clerk that cocked up an email and not some
insidious fkn conspiracy (by the date, now almost a year and a half hence) like you were claiming
Durham was surely going to find

yet somehow we find you still chasing the fkn dragon over "unredacted documents"....oy fkn vey, bud
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
The judge accepted his plea agreement and also signed his waiver of trial rights the same day.

There was no more trial to judge after that. Only sentencing.

We'll see when the "judgement of conviction" clerk paper work is submitted, and what it documents as the conviction date.

I will pay you then, if any other date after those prior to Sept 30, 2020 are shown as the conviction date. It might be Jan. 29, 2021. It might be Aug. 19, 2020. We'll see.

You may be right. I may be right. It's all technicalities at this point once he plead guilty, judge accepted it, and waived his right to a trial (signed by judge also), Aug. 19, 2020.

We bet on conviction, NOT sentencing. That can take weeks and more likely months after conviction in many cases.
 

StuAzole

Duke status
Jan 22, 2016
17,201
1,935
113
There was NO TRIAL to be had once he plead guilty and the judge signed the waiver of his rights to have one.

Both done on Aug 19, 2020.

Pre-release was just formalities to take away his passport and other travel restrictions to help prevent fleeing during pre-sentencing release.
You’re wrong here.
 

StuAzole

Duke status
Jan 22, 2016
17,201
1,935
113
a conviction is marked by filing a "judgement of conviction" even in cases that plea out

no such filing existed as of that date

the documents I link refer to pre-trial release and sentencing date on December 10th

keep shucking and jiving, Dog!

it's a joy to watch

drip drip drip
This is where it’s iffy.

in a trial, a conviction comes when a jury says guilty. Not at a later sentencing date.

A plea is just a different way of getting to the same spot - guilty.

The technical Arguments prob work against Surfdog but my point all along was that neither guy anticipated a plea deal that took months to drag on when they made the bet.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
This is where it’s iffy.

in a trial, a conviction comes when a jury says guilty. Not at a later sentencing date.

A plea is just a different way of getting to the same spot - guilty.

The technical Arguments prob work against Surfdog but my point all along was that neither guy anticipated a plea deal that took months to drag on when they made the bet.
he anticipated Durham uncovering a wide ranging conspiracy to illegally investigate
and unseat Donald Trump. hard stop.

I bet he was full of sh!t and Durham would find nothing.

I gave him over a year

Durham did not find sh!t.

DURHAM DID NOT FIND sh!t.

DURHAM DID NOT FIND SHITTTTTTTT.

there is no other formal waypoint that Barr and his DOJ could not ratfuck that I could have
used for this bet short of conviction; this is why the terms of the bet allowed Surfdog such
a massive span of time to reach some conclusion on the matter...in fact, I added a full month
to the end of the term as a sign of good faith to resolve ambiguity around timing at the very
beginning of the wager

what a joke
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
Durham has not concluded his investigation, and is far from DONE.

Covid basically shut it down to barely a trickle for most of 2020.

They had to resort to Zoom testimonies and hearings, which is BS.

So, it's dragged on WAY longer than it should've and only recently are more repressed documents making their way to the light of day.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
As posted on another thread......

I'll gladly pay your bet once we see your precious "judgement of conviction" confirming it.

I might even pay you interest if you play nice.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
Trump didn't start "Obamagate" calls. He just coined the term for it, and probably copied from somewhere else.

This is only the tip of the iceberg, with new released docs coming every few days now. When Durham's done in a month or 2, it will all gel nicely into a very cognizant organized effort by the Obama admin walking out the door in late 2016/early 2017.
JUST THE TIP!

You obviously didn't read the Special Counsel Report or the Senate Intelligence committee report

To date Durham has one pencil pusher. Mueller rolled up Trump's campaign's upper management

You're a joke, Dog

Once again, you haven't proved conviction by the date and your entire idiotic narrative is bogus

Time to own it
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
Time to own this.........

Did you even read the plea agreement in it's entirety?

Plenty of "conviction" statements that were agreed to thru-out, multiple times.......

(shortened for brevity and ADHD accusing "wall of words" impatience of facts)

"In addition, your client agrees to pay a special assessment of $100 per felony conviction to
the Clerk of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia."

"Your client agrees that, should the conviction following your client’s plea of guilty
pursuant to this Agreement be vacated for any reason,
any prosecution,......"

"Your client agrees to waive, insofar as such waiver is permitted by law, the right to appeal
the conviction in this case on any basis
, including but not limited to claim(s) that (1) the statute(s)
to which your client is pleading guilty is unconstitutional, and (2) the admitted conduct does not
fall within the scope of the statute(s)."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And, this is a key comment regarding conviction and later sentencing.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In agreeing to this waiver, your client is aware that your client’s sentence has yet to be determined by the Court."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO WHERE do we see a similar statement that "conviction" has yet to be determined by the Court"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Notwithstanding the above agreement to waive the right to appeal the conviction and sentence, your client retains the right to appeal on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel, but not to raise on appeal other issues regarding the
conviction or sentence."

"Your client also waives any right to challenge the conviction entered or sentence imposed
under this Agreement."


https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/8/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Show me ANY other document in this case that mentions Clinesmiths non-conviction after this document, date Aug. 19, 2020.

EVERYTHING posted after this document was strictly related to sentencing.
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
Time to own this.........

Did you even read the plea agreement in it's entirety?

Plenty of "conviction" statements that were agreed to thru-out, multiple times.......

(shortened for brevity and ADHD accusing "wall of words" impatience of facts)

"In addition, your client agrees to pay a special assessment of $100 per felony conviction to
the Clerk of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia."

"Your client agrees that, should the conviction following your client’s plea of guilty
pursuant to this Agreement be vacated for any reason,
any prosecution,......"

"Your client agrees to waive, insofar as such waiver is permitted by law, the right to appeal
the conviction in this case on any basis
, including but not limited to claim(s) that (1) the statute(s)
to which your client is pleading guilty is unconstitutional, and (2) the admitted conduct does not
fall within the scope of the statute(s)."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And, this is a key comment regarding conviction and later sentencing.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In agreeing to this waiver, your client is aware that your client’s sentence has yet to be determined by the Court."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO WHERE do we see a similar statement that "conviction" has yet to be determined by the Court"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Notwithstanding the above agreement to waive the right to appeal the conviction and sentence, your client retains the right to appeal on the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel, but not to raise on appeal other issues regarding the
conviction or sentence."

"Your client also waives any right to challenge the conviction entered or sentence imposed
under this Agreement."


https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/8/united-states-v-clinesmith/

Show me ANY other document in this case that mentions Clinesmiths non-conviction after this document, date Aug. 19, 2020.

EVERYTHING posted after this document was strictly related to sentencing.
your reading comprehension is poor

"Your client also waives any right to challenge the conviction entered or sentence imposed
under this Agreement."


was a conviction entered yet, Surfdog?

you've spent a lot of time hemming about the judgement of conviction filing that I have
repeatedly alluded to and you just quoted language that substantiates my claim that a
conviction would have been entered in to the case record....

you're quoting a plea agreement and further substantiating my point seeing as how your
quotes reference conviction and sentencing at a future date.

entering a plea does not equate to an automatic conviction. every attorney, including
our own here, has communicated that consistently without deviation.

the plea was submitted and the court's documents then make a series of comments
about pre-trial release, surrendering passport to pretrial services, and returning to court
on December 10th and, "if convicted, be prepared to surrender"

conviction was going to occur on the 10th with sentencing and surrender

just like the court documents say

a conviction is a very distinct step in the process...you're trying to infer it happened
when the plea was submitted. you can keep trying to make that inference but that is
not how the process works.

if you wanted to make the bet on the point in time when a plea was submitted, we could
have made that bet. we made a bet on conviction. you cannot point to anything that indicates
he was convicted on or before the due date.

I have pointed to multiple documents from the court that indicate he was not convicted
by the due date.

please stop posting