“I just want to find 11,780 votes”

Random Guy

Duke status
Jan 16, 2002
27,966
1,588
113
Does the afoaf /surfdog bet have an expiration date?
Is there a public record of conviction?
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
I imagine Surfdog is off figuring out a way to spin the document I just linked

he's been getting on quite lately so we'll see what happens tonight...
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
Also add 400 hours of community service to his 1 year probation sentencing.

He's was convicted (Aug 19, 2020), and sentenced (finally, after months of delays) Jan 29, 2021.

Still waiting for the "judgement of conviction" to show up somewhere, publicly.
---------------------------------------------
Minute Entry for proceedings held before Judge James E. Boasberg: Sentencing held on 1/29/2021 as to KEVIN CLINESMITH (1). Defendant sentenced to a term of twelve (12) months Probation and a $100 Special Assessment. Appeal rights given. Bond Status of Defendant: remains on Personal Recognizance Bond (PR)/appeared by video; Court Reporter: Lisa Griffith; Defense Attorney: Justin Shur and Megan Church; US Attorney: Anthony Scarpelli and Neeraj Patel; Prob Officer: Crystal Lustig; Witnesses: Dr. Carter Page. (nbn)
---------------------------------------------
AGAIN.

How does one get a sentencing hearing, get sentenced, without a conviction first?

Simple question, should get a simple answer.

Does one get sentenced, THEN get a conviction? I think NOT.

He did not, or EVER, rescind his guilty plea, that was FULLY accepted and recorded by the judge, Aug 19, 2020.

If judge didn't accept his guilty plea, you might have some grounds. But he did, and it was done, all but the sentencing process.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/united-states-v-clinesmith/
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA

here you go, Page 1, item number 4 in the conditions for release....

that says loud and clear, return to court on the (previously set) sentencing date
and, if convicted, must surrender as directed

the courts had not convicted him yet by virtue of the court's own documents and language

that document was filed with the courts on August 19th, citing a December 10th sentencing date



jesus fkn christ...please stop talking out your ass all the time
That's old news.

Once the judge formally accepted his guilty plea, even after persistently questioning Clinesmith for knowing what rights he gives up doing so, he agreed with his plea, and was on to sentencing.

No "judgement" necessary when someone pleads guilty before a trial even gets started.

Guilty plea is the same as a conviction, once judge FORMALLY approves it.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/8/united-states-v-clinesmith/

And from you own page link above......

"Your client acknowledges that your client’s entry of a guilty plea to the charged offenses authorizes the Court to impose any sentence, up to and including the statutory maximum sentence, which may be greater than the applicable Guidelines range. The Government cannot, and does not, make any promise or representation as to what sentence your client will receive. Moreover, it is understood that your client will have no right to withdraw your client’s plea of guilty should the Court impose a sentence that is outside the Guidelines range or if the Court does not follow the Government’s sentencing recommendation. The Government and your client will be bound by this Agreement, regardless of the sentence imposed by the Court. Any effort by your client to withdraw the guilty plea because of the length of the sentence shall constitute a breach of this Agreement."
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
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113
like I said, more bullshit...completely ignored the document and content therein

the August 19th alludes to sentencing and conviction date on December 10th which was further delayed

you just posted more tripe, bolded it to make it look like it meant something, and tried to act like all the bullshit you've posted refutes the very specific and very clear language I pointed out to you. nothing you have ever posted confirms conviction.

a conviction is a very clear state in a case. it is marked by very clear filings in the court. there was no conviction at the time specified in the wager

the clinesmith case is a fkn joke, Durham didn't find sh!t, there was no conspiracy or wrong doing in the
CIA or the FBI as it related to crossfire hurricane (as evidenced by the lack of convictions and repeated statements by the DOJ, who's running Durham's case, on the matter)

the entirety of your bet fell flat on its face...

you have zero fkn integrity, dude

1612359567986.png
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
like I said, more bullshit...completely ignored the document and content therein

the August 19th alludes to sentencing and conviction date on December 10th which was further delayed

you just posted more tripe, bolded it to make it look like it meant something, and tried to act like all the bullshit you've posted refutes the very specific and very clear language I pointed out to you. nothing you have ever posted confirms conviction.

a conviction is a very clear state in a case. it is marked by very clear filings in the court. there was no conviction at the time specified in the wager

the clinesmith case is a fkn joke, Durham didn't find sh!t, there was no conspiracy or wrong doing in the
CIA or the FBI as it related to crossfire hurricane (as evidenced by the lack of convictions and repeated statements by the DOJ, who's running Durham's case, on the matter)

the entirety of your bet fell flat on its face...

you have zero fkn integrity, dude

View attachment 104652
Read the statement above VERY slowly and carefully.

"if convicted, must surrender as directed to SERVE A SENTENCE THAT THE COURT MAY IMPOSE."

He later appeared and was SENTENCED last week to 400 hours of community service and 1 year of probation.

So, he was convicted prior (by pleading guilty, and the judge accepting his plea, fully and on the record). No "if" about it.

NO "if" question to his "convicted" status. What else could he be when he plead guilty and he and the judge signed his life away (for potential 5 years and/or $250,000 fine)? He plead guilty and judge approved it the same day. Convicted.

That court date was his SENTENCING DATE (which was pushed out a couple times to Jan. 29, 2021, due to both sides lawyers bickering over punishment due). He was already convicted right after he plead and when judge approved it, sealed it. Done. Nothing was going to change his guilty/convicted status after that, even if he later changed his mind. It says such in all his plea documents.

All activity after Aug 19, 2020, was pre-sentencing squabble of how Clinesmith had a family, lost his job and "standing" and didn't deserve 5 years in jail, wah! wah!:cry:

I had a bad feeling once Biden won that he would get off easy. Sure 'nuff.

But, I've asked this AGAIN AND AGAIN:

How do you get sentenced to punishment WITHOUT a CONVICTION?
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
he was asked to show up and, if convicted, be prepared to surrender

the date: December 10th

he didn't actually get convicted until Jan 29th when his sentencing actually occurred because,
as I have repeatedly demonstrated, that's how the process works

if he was considered convicted at that time by the court they would not have used "if/may" language.

you're hilarious to watch in action though...keep going!

you do love to play stupid word games, after all....

1612410574660.png
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
Here's some snippets from the Aug 19, 2020 plea agreement that basically prove he was convicted once he plead guilty and judge and all parties signing off on it:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"In addition, your client agrees to pay a special assessment of $100 per felony conviction to
the Clerk of the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. Your client also
understands that, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 3572 and § 5E1.2 of the United States Sentencing"

He was ordered to pay the $100 at and prior to his sentencing.

B. Statute of Limitations

Your client agrees that, should the conviction following your client’s plea of guilty
pursuant to this Agreement be vacated for any reason,
any prosecution, based on the conduct set
forth in the attached Statement of Offense, that is not time-barred by the applicable statute of
limitations on the date of the signing of this Agreement (including any counts that the Government
has agreed not to prosecute or to dismiss at sentencing pursuant to this Agreement) may be
commenced or reinstated against your client, notwithstanding the expiration of the statute of
limitations between the signing of this Agreement and the commencement or reinstatement of such
prosecution. It is the intent of this Agreement to waive all defenses based on the statute of
limitations with respect to any prosecution of conduct set forth in the attached Statement of Offense
that is not time-barred on the date that this Agreement is signed.

D. Appeal Rights

Your client agrees to waive, insofar as such waiver is permitted by law, the right to appeal
the conviction in this case on any basis
, including but not limited to claim(s) that (1) the statute(s)
to which your client is pleading guilty is unconstitutional, and (2) the admitted conduct does not
fall within the scope of the statute(s). Your client understands that federal law, specifically 18
U.S.C. § 3742, affords defendants the right to appeal their sentences in certain circumstances.
Your client also agrees to waive the right to appeal the sentence in this case, including but not
limited to any term of imprisonment, fine, forfeiture, award of restitution, term or condition of
supervised release, authority of the Court to set conditions of release, and the manner in which the
sentence was determined, except to the extent the Court sentences your client above the statutory
maximum or Guidelines range determined by the Court. In agreeing to this waiver, your client is

Page 6 of 10
Case 1:20-cr-00165-JEB Document 8 Filed 08/19/20 Page 7 of 10

aware that your client’s sentence has yet to be determined by the Court. Realizing the uncertainty
in estimating what sentence the Court ultimately will impose, your client knowingly and willingly
waives your client’s right to appeal the sentence,
to the extent noted above, in exchange for the
concessions made by the Government in this Agreement. Notwithstanding the above agreement
to waive the right to appeal the conviction and sentence,
your client retains the right to appeal on
the basis of ineffective assistance of counsel, but not to raise on appeal other issues regarding the
conviction or sentence.


E. Collateral Attack

Your client also waives any right to challenge the conviction entered or sentence imposed
under this Agreement
or otherwise attempt to modify or change the sentence or the manner in
which it was determined in any collateral attack, including, but not limited to, a motion brought
under 28 U.S.C. § 2255 or Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 60(b), except to the extent such a
motion is based on newly discovered evidence or on a claim that your client received ineffective
assistance of counsel. Your client reserves the right to file a motion brought under 18 U.S.C.
§ 3582(c)(2), but agrees to waive the right to appeal the denial of such a motion.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/8/united-states-v-clinesmith/
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
View attachment 104703

Why would there be a CHECK MARK on the "if convicted" selection, if he wasn't already convicted?
because there are different types of release

he's being released and when he has his next hearing, the terms of his conviction may require surrender

keeeeep going, Dog!

you're stupid highlight doesn't even say what you assert it does; a conviction is a very specific thing which
is why the original wager hinged on it. it is clear and measurable....it doesn't require inference or illogical
deduction to be achieved

stay classy
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
it's so funny...the bet was that Durham was going to uncover all this wrongdoing

Durham found NO FISA court violations
Durham found NO FBI wrongdoing in Crossfire Hurricane
Durham found NO DOJ wrongdoing in special counsel investigation
Durham found NO DNI wrongdoing for Ukraine whisteblower escalation

Durham found some poor, lowly clerk who amended a document to be (what he though)
MORE specific and factually correct, but which, as it turns out, was wrong. The document
itself was NOT a lynchpin in Crossfire Hurricane, the FISA warrants that were granted and
renewed, or the Special Counsel investigation.

he made a professional mistake; there was no conspiracy or malice

the spirit of the bet fails on that point alone, IMO. Durham found nothing that comports with
the wide-ranging conspiracy to that Surfdog was constantly blathering about

and then, on top of the utter failure of the Durham investigation to uncover any wrongdoing,
his bet fails to meet the time criteria:

a conviction by the end of September

he originally asked for charges, but I said no, because Barr could have charged anyone for
anything, plausibly...and a conviction is a very clear condition that would require the case be
completely adjudicated by the courts...or so one would think, but then again I underestimated
Surfdog's inability to accept reality.

a plea agreement was submitted to the court on August 19th. the problem is that the plea agreement
is NOT A CONVICTION. the court has to accept the plea agreement, convict, and then sentence.

the simple submission of the plea to the courts is not instantly/automatically a conviction because
the court requires time to review and certify the terms of the plea agreement; the prosecutors do not
unilaterally set the terms. plea agreements are always made pending approval by the courts.

this is precisely what was going on in the intervening months between submission of the agreement
and the December 10th appearance date (which was ultimately delayed until late January.)

everything that I've stated here can be substantiated and corroborated directly....it does not require
deduction or inference or indirect implication....he'll argue until he's blue in the face that submitting
a plea agreement is tantamount to a conviction, admittedly I can see some merit to this argument,
but it isn't a conviction and it doesn't satisfy the terms of the bet.
 
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afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
a conviction isn't vague...you're fkn high.

the final case docs will have a date of conviction on them.

they should be up soon...he was only sentenced on the 29th.

perhaps Surfdog will come up with a new explanation as to why the court docs themselves are wrong.
 
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Phi1

Miki Dora status
May 21, 2002
4,808
887
113
Hell Cajon, Ca
it's so funny...the bet was that Durham was going to uncover all this wrongdoing

Durham found NO FISA court violations
Durham found NO FBI wrongdoing in Crossfire Hurricane
Durham found NO DOJ wrongdoing in special counsel investigation
Durham found NO DNI wrongdoing for Ukraine whisteblower escalation

Durham found some poor, lowly clerk who amended a document to be (what he though)
MORE specific and factually correct, but which, as it turns out, was wrong. The document
itself was NOT a lynchpin in Crossfire Hurricane, the FISA warrants that were granted and
renewed, or the Special Counsel investigation.

he made a professional mistake; there was no conspiracy or malice

the spirit of the bet fails on that point alone, IMO. Durham found nothing that comports with
the wide-ranging conspiracy to that Surfdog was constantly blathering about

and then, on top of the utter failure of the Durham investigation to uncover any wrongdoing,
his bet fails to meet the time criteria:

a conviction by the end of September

he originally asked for charges, but I said no, because Barr could have charged anyone for
anything, plausibly...and a conviction is a very clear condition that would require the case be
completely adjudicated by the courts...or so one would think, but then again I underestimated
Surfdog's inability to accept reality.

a plea agreement was submitted to the court on August 19th. the problem is that the plea agreement
is NOT A CONVICTION. the court has to accept the plea agreement, convict, and then sentence.

the simple submission of the plea to the courts is not instantly/automatically a conviction because
the court requires time to review and certify the terms of the plea agreement; the prosecutors do not
unilaterally set the terms. plea agreements are always made pending approval by the courts.

this is precisely what was going on in the intervening months between submission of the agreement
and the December 10th appearance date (which was ultimately delayed until late January.)

everything that I've stated here can be substantiated and corroborated directly....it does not require
deduction or inference or indirect implication....he'll argue until he's blue in the face that submitting
a plea agreement is tantamount to a conviction, admittedly I can see some merit to this argument,
but it isn't a conviction and it doesn't satisfy the terms of the bet.
Flynn, Manafort, Stone, etc caught lying under oath: “pRoceSS crImEs!!!”

Clinesmith buggers an email: “Deep state at work!!!”
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
latest cases documents posted:


On August 19, 2020, Mr. Clinesmith made his initial appearance before this Court. He pleaded guilty, Dkt. 8, and was ordered released on his own recognizance with pretrial supervision conditions, Dkt. 10. Pursuant to those conditions, on August 25, 2020, Mr. Clinesmith surrendered his passport to Pretrial Services. Dkt. 41. On January 29, 2021, Mr. Clinesmith was sentenced to 12 months probation. See Minute Order Jan. 29, 2021.

interesting that the court documents indicated that he was released with "pretrial supervision conditions"

it's almost like August 19th was not his actual trial nor indicative of a conviction

any day now...
 

StuAzole

Duke status
Jan 22, 2016
17,201
1,935
113
latest cases documents posted:


On August 19, 2020, Mr. Clinesmith made his initial appearance before this Court. He pleaded guilty, Dkt. 8, and was ordered released on his own recognizance with pretrial supervision conditions, Dkt. 10. Pursuant to those conditions, on August 25, 2020, Mr. Clinesmith surrendered his passport to Pretrial Services. Dkt. 41. On January 29, 2021, Mr. Clinesmith was sentenced to 12 months probation. See Minute Order Jan. 29, 2021.

interesting that the court documents indicated that he was released with "pretrial supervision conditions"

it's almost like August 19th was not his actual trial nor indicative of a conviction

any day now...
Pretrial supervision conditions are issued early on - and before the plea - so your point on this one misses the mark. Your best argument is that there's no conviction until the plea is certified. But even then, the timing of how this all could work makes the bet too vague. It was possible that he could have plead and been sentenced on the same day. It was also possible that he could plead and then be sentenced several months later. Neither of you anticipated any of this in the original bet, I'm sure. In fact, I don't expect either of you anticipated a plea at all.

In regular jargon, Surfdog probaby wins this bet because a plea is generally considered a conviction. In technical jargon, you probably win the bet because a conviction needs to formalized on the record. In reality, neither of you win the bet because there's no way to tell what you intended regarding a plea.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
34,299
7,097
113
Pretrial supervision conditions are issued early on - and before the plea - so your point on this one misses the mark. Your best argument is that there's no conviction until the plea is certified. But even then, the timing of how this all could work makes the bet too vague. It was possible that he could have plead and been sentenced on the same day. It was also possible that he could plead and then be sentenced several months later. Neither of you anticipated any of this in the original bet, I'm sure. In fact, I don't expect either of you anticipated a plea at all.

In regular jargon, Surfdog probaby wins this bet because a plea is generally considered a conviction. In technical jargon, you probably win the bet because a conviction needs to formalized on the record. In reality, neither of you win the bet because there's no way to tell what you intended regarding a plea.
it was certainly anticipated...this is why he got (over?) a full year on the terms

I chose conviction because, as you say, is a formal benchmark in a case and
one that Bill Barr couldn't direcly ratfuck

more docs will be posted....I'm in it for the long haul, obvs, I think I want to take
ifallalot's bet on GM being all EV by 2035 or whatever!
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
19,771
1,011
113
Oceanside,CA
I was waiting for StuAzole to give his breakdown.

The Plea Agreement snippets I posted above show numerous accounts of "conviction" in the agreement.

And you were wrong about "the judge not accepting that day" on Aug 19, 2020. He did in the trial waiver agreement, and it's signed off by both parties attorneys at the bottom of the Plea Agreement.

Clinesmith-waiver.png

Hence, from that day onward, no trial to "judge".

All that was left was deciding on a sentence. Which attorneys screeched back and forth about for months.
 
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