Can we talk about illegal firearm sales?

hal9000

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Urbana, Illinois

Twenty-five years ago, Scott King, then mayor of Gary, Indiana, spoke solemnly as he described a new strategy the city was taking to deal with the flow of illegally purchased guns fueling violent crime there.

Undercover Gary police officers had fanned out across the area for Operation Hollowpoint, successfully purchasing guns and ammunition at federally licensed firearm retailers despite representing themselves as suspicious buyers. King presented surveillance footage in an 18-minute video produced by the city.

Inside one pawn shop, a bespectacled clerk and two undercover police officers are shown discussing a 9 mm pistol. After the male officer admitted he did not have the permit required to buy the gun, the female officer accompanying him told the clerk she did. The clerk then suggested she buy the gun on her partner’s behalf in violation of federal gun restrictions.

“Might as well put it in your name then so I don’t have to make a call,” the clerk responded. “The feds are constantly screwing with people.”

The footage, which documented four suspicious purchases at different retailers selling guns, showed “how easy juveniles, felons and other prohibited purchasers can acquire guns from legitimate gun dealers through the use of a straw purchaser,” King said in the video.

The stings formed the basis of the city’s historic lawsuit seeking to hold local gun retailers and major gun manufacturers, such as Smith & Wesson, Glock and others, responsible for illegal sales like those uncovered in the investigation. As part of the suit, the city sought monetary damages and changes in industry practices.

Relentless legislative and legal efforts across the country have eliminated a flurry of lawsuits initiated by cities against the industry two decades ago. A bill approved by the Indiana legislatureand signed into law this month by Gov. Eric Holcomb may be the final blow to Gary’s suit, the last one standing from that original group of cases.

But the problem of illicit gun sales outlined by King and detailed in that grainy footage remains and continues to contribute to violence in northwest Indiana, nearby Chicago and beyond.
 

ElOgro

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Dec 3, 2010
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Twenty-five years ago, Scott King, then mayor of Gary, Indiana, spoke solemnly as he described a new strategy the city was taking to deal with the flow of illegally purchased guns fueling violent crime there.

Undercover Gary police officers had fanned out across the area for Operation Hollowpoint, successfully purchasing guns and ammunition at federally licensed firearm retailers despite representing themselves as suspicious buyers. King presented surveillance footage in an 18-minute video produced by the city.

Inside one pawn shop, a bespectacled clerk and two undercover police officers are shown discussing a 9 mm pistol. After the male officer admitted he did not have the permit required to buy the gun, the female officer accompanying him told the clerk she did. The clerk then suggested she buy the gun on her partner’s behalf in violation of federal gun restrictions.

“Might as well put it in your name then so I don’t have to make a call,” the clerk responded. “The feds are constantly screwing with people.”

The footage, which documented four suspicious purchases at different retailers selling guns, showed “how easy juveniles, felons and other prohibited purchasers can acquire guns from legitimate gun dealers through the use of a straw purchaser,” King said in the video.

The stings formed the basis of the city’s historic lawsuit seeking to hold local gun retailers and major gun manufacturers, such as Smith & Wesson, Glock and others, responsible for illegal sales like those uncovered in the investigation. As part of the suit, the city sought monetary damages and changes in industry practices.

Relentless legislative and legal efforts across the country have eliminated a flurry of lawsuits initiated by cities against the industry two decades ago. A bill approved by the Indiana legislatureand signed into law this month by Gov. Eric Holcomb may be the final blow to Gary’s suit, the last one standing from that original group of cases.

But the problem of illicit gun sales outlined by King and detailed in that grainy footage remains and continues to contribute to violence in northwest Indiana, nearby Chicago and beyond.
What race of people in Indiana is most likely to possess an illegal firearm?
 

hal9000

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Why are there so many repeat criminals on the streets of Chicago and Philadelphia?
that’s a fair question for a different thread.

this thread is about how illegal gun sales are responsible for putting guns on the streets.

Indiana does not want to address a problem to which it is a contributor.
 

ElOgro

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that’s a fair question for a different thread.

this thread is about how illegal gun sales are responsible for putting guns on the streets.

Indiana does not want to address a problem to which it is a contributor.
Who is buying/selling them?
 

manbearpig

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May 11, 2009
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in the bathroom
Who is buying/selling them?
In LA (and beyond) its the cops.


not sure I’ve seen this one yet
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

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Apr 27, 2016
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Twenty-five years ago, Scott King, then mayor of Gary, Indiana, spoke solemnly as he described a new strategy the city was taking to deal with the flow of illegally purchased guns fueling violent crime there.

Undercover Gary police officers had fanned out across the area for Operation Hollowpoint, successfully purchasing guns and ammunition at federally licensed firearm retailers despite representing themselves as suspicious buyers. King presented surveillance footage in an 18-minute video produced by the city.

Inside one pawn shop, a bespectacled clerk and two undercover police officers are shown discussing a 9 mm pistol. After the male officer admitted he did not have the permit required to buy the gun, the female officer accompanying him told the clerk she did. The clerk then suggested she buy the gun on her partner’s behalf in violation of federal gun restrictions.

“Might as well put it in your name then so I don’t have to make a call,” the clerk responded. “The feds are constantly screwing with people.”

The footage, which documented four suspicious purchases at different retailers selling guns, showed “how easy juveniles, felons and other prohibited purchasers can acquire guns from legitimate gun dealers through the use of a straw purchaser,” King said in the video.

The stings formed the basis of the city’s historic lawsuit seeking to hold local gun retailers and major gun manufacturers, such as Smith & Wesson, Glock and others, responsible for illegal sales like those uncovered in the investigation. As part of the suit, the city sought monetary damages and changes in industry practices.

Relentless legislative and legal efforts across the country have eliminated a flurry of lawsuits initiated by cities against the industry two decades ago. A bill approved by the Indiana legislatureand signed into law this month by Gov. Eric Holcomb may be the final blow to Gary’s suit, the last one standing from that original group of cases.

But the problem of illicit gun sales outlined by King and detailed in that grainy footage remains and continues to contribute to violence in northwest Indiana, nearby Chicago and beyond.
Why would the government go after people who aren’t breaking the law? The guy selling the gun to a straw purchaser might be breaking the law. The straw buyers are breaking the law. If it’s obvious that the purchase is on behalf of a prohibited buyer or the seller suggests that a straw purchase be made then by all means prosecute that guy.

Also, prosecute those who attempt straw purchases. Duh.

But why go after all gun sellers and manufacturers because some people break the law?

If I get caught speeding on the highway should the guy who sold me my car get a ticket? Should BMW USA get a ticket?

I’ve said this before but it’s always been thorn in my side. The state california has a registry of all firearms purchased or transferred through a licensed dealer. They also have records of all people convicted of felonies in the state.

Yet for some reason nobody has ever cross referenced those two data bases to see if any felons have firearms registered in their names.

Wouldn’t that be a good place to start? People on parole don’t even have 4th amendment protections and can have their homes searched without a warrant.
 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Twenty-five years ago, Scott King, then mayor of Gary, Indiana, spoke solemnly as he described a new strategy the city was taking to deal with the flow of illegally purchased guns fueling violent crime there.

Undercover Gary police officers had fanned out across the area for Operation Hollowpoint, successfully purchasing guns and ammunition at federally licensed firearm retailers despite representing themselves as suspicious buyers. King presented surveillance footage in an 18-minute video produced by the city.

Inside one pawn shop, a bespectacled clerk and two undercover police officers are shown discussing a 9 mm pistol. After the male officer admitted he did not have the permit required to buy the gun, the female officer accompanying him told the clerk she did. The clerk then suggested she buy the gun on her partner’s behalf in violation of federal gun restrictions.

“Might as well put it in your name then so I don’t have to make a call,” the clerk responded. “The feds are constantly screwing with people.”

The footage, which documented four suspicious purchases at different retailers selling guns, showed “how easy juveniles, felons and other prohibited purchasers can acquire guns from legitimate gun dealers through the use of a straw purchaser,” King said in the video.

The stings formed the basis of the city’s historic lawsuit seeking to hold local gun retailers and major gun manufacturers, such as Smith & Wesson, Glock and others, responsible for illegal sales like those uncovered in the investigation. As part of the suit, the city sought monetary damages and changes in industry practices.

Relentless legislative and legal efforts across the country have eliminated a flurry of lawsuits initiated by cities against the industry two decades ago. A bill approved by the Indiana legislatureand signed into law this month by Gov. Eric Holcomb may be the final blow to Gary’s suit, the last one standing from that original group of cases.

But the problem of illicit gun sales outlined by King and detailed in that grainy footage remains and continues to contribute to violence in northwest Indiana, nearby Chicago and beyond.
You're simply describing people's rights being trampled on, both the second amendment and freedom of commerce
 

Ifallalot

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Dec 17, 2008
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Why would the government go after people who aren’t breaking the law? The guy selling the gun to a straw purchaser might be breaking the law. The straw buyers are breaking the law. If it’s obvious that the purchase is on behalf of a prohibited buyer or the seller suggests that a straw purchase be made then by all means prosecute that guy.

Also, prosecute those who attempt straw purchases. Duh.

But why go after all gun sellers and manufacturers because some people break the law?

If I get caught speeding on the highway should the guy who sold me my car get a ticket? Should BMW USA get a ticket?

I’ve said this before but it’s always been thorn in my side. The state california has a registry of all firearms purchased or transferred through a licensed dealer. They also have records of all people convicted of felonies in the state.

Yet for some reason nobody has ever cross referenced those two data bases to see if any felons have firearms registered in their names.

Wouldn’t that be a good place to start? People on parole don’t even have 4th amendment protections and can have their homes searched without a warrant.
Tyranny
 
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Sharky

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Personally, I'm against people with Federal Firearm Licenses knowingly selling guns to strawman purchasers. It ought to be against the law. Because it is:

"In Indiana, any person who knowingly or intentionally makes a materially false statement on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Form 4473 (which federal law requires a purchaser to fill out when buying a firearm from a dealer) when purchasing a handgun commits a felony.1
A person who provides a firearm to an individual whom the person knows is prohibited from possessing or purchasing a firearm or intends to use the firearm to commit a crime commits criminal transfer of a firearm, a felony.2
A person who knowingly or intentionally sells, gives, or in any other manner transfers the ownership or possession of a handgun to another person who the seller knows is prohibited from purchasing a handgun or intends to use the handgun to commit a crime is guilty of a felony.3
Indiana also criminalizes the straw purchase of a handgun. A person who buys a firearm for another individual whom the buyer knows is ineligible to purchase or receive a handgun is guilty of a Level 5 felony.4 It is also a felony for an individual to purchase a handgun for someone the purchaser knows intends to use the handgun to commit a crime.5
A firearms dealer who knowingly or intentionally sells, rents, trades or transfers a handgun in violation of the state laws regulating such activities commits a misdemeanor.6
Indiana also makes it a felony to remove, obliterate, or alter the importer or manufacturer’s serial number on any firearm, or possess any firearm on which the importer or manufacturer’s serial number has been removed, obliterated, or altered.7"

Trafficking & Straw Purchasing in Indiana | Giffords
 
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Sharky

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so we should just let infinity amounts of fentanyl onto the streets? because inanimate objects are definitely not the problem. People are.
Since you started with this, let's take this analogy a bit further. If a pharmaceutical drug manufacturing concern gets a legal order from a pharmacy for fentanyl and fills that legal order, should the drug company be prosecuted if one of the pharmacists sells said fentanyl out the back door to people who don't have a prescription?
 
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