Watch out! Cyclist coming through

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
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I tried his advice last night and I don't think I'd do it again. Weighting the front bars more means getting over the bars more. It feels like you're going over the bars if you do this, and you might if you hit anything. Instead, I tried again staying upright in a front-squat position with my heels dropping as I exited the turn like I'm pumping over a bump. Throughout the entire turn, I'm feeling slight backward pressure on the handlebars. This works a lot better. If your front fork feels squirrelly, pull outward on the handlebars. There are sponsored riders and retired pros on here so maybe they can give their opinion.


 

Oceanslide

Kelly Slater status
Mar 5, 2008
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:jamon: I use mine to cruise down the bike path right next to my hood to and along the beach in both directions,
following the same laws I expect the suited-up-spandex crew to do (they don't, usually). It's f'ing awesome.
People can be complete dikks on any mechanism. I give common courtesy. It would be nice if most did the same
on whatever the F they're driving/riding.
 

plasticbertrand

Duke status
Jan 12, 2009
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I tried his advice last night and I don't think I'd do it again. Weighting the front bars more means getting over the bars more. It feels like you're going over the bars if you do this, and you might if you hit anything. Instead, I tried again staying upright in a front-squat position with my heels dropping as I exited the turn like I'm pumping over a bump. Throughout the entire turn, I'm feeling slight backward pressure on the handlebars. This works a lot better. If your front fork feels squirrelly, pull outward on the handlebars. There are sponsored riders and retired pros on here so maybe they can give their opinion.
Your weight should be shifting constantly depending on the terrain.

But neutral position, were you're loosely holding your bars and letting your bike pivot around your bottom bracket is the basis for everything in MTB

Your need to be able to barely grip your bars if you want to be smooth.

More weight over the front - more grip on fast straights and open corners, weight back for berms, obstacles and manuals, even then your weight is shifting constantly .... neutral the rest of the time, you can't be in one position all the time.

I don't think that's really coachable, you will feel it the more you ride.

Head over bars/neutral - all about the front tire grip when going fast, the back will come around.

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rice

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Jul 2, 2002
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:jamon: I use mine to cruise down the bike path right next to my hood to and along the beach in both directions,
following the same laws I expect the suited-up-spandex crew to do (they don't, usually). It's f'ing awesome.
People can be complete dikks on any mechanism. I give common courtesy. It would be nice if most did the same
on whatever the F they're driving/riding.
It's an electric motorcycle.
 
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LelandCuz

Billy Hamilton status
Mar 21, 2011
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^If these positions make it feels like you're gonna flip over the bars you're bike's reach is too short and possibly the stem is too long and head angle is too steep. These are the changes that constitute "modern geometry" and allow aggressive cornering with some margin for error.

P.S. Finally got to race this season. Stoked to win the Enduro and 3rd in XC. 40 years old and still fighting in the pro class!
 

PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
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^If these positions make it feels like you're gonna flip over the bars you're bike's reach is too short and possibly the stem is too long and head angle is too steep. These are the changes that constitute "modern geometry" and allow aggressive cornering with some margin for error.
It's a Kona Taro/Honzo: HTA 68 degrees. I might be willing to try/buy a new hardtail if they implemented some of the ideas in @Chocki's awesome article. I don't know enough to chase around all these dimensions and at my level of riding, it probably doesn't matter that much. Maybe I'll wait a few years til they start making 26ers again haha. Not really thrilled with a 29er.
 

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
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^If these positions make it feels like you're gonna flip over the bars you're bike's reach is too short and possibly the stem is too long and head angle is too steep. These are the changes that constitute "modern geometry" and allow aggressive cornering with some margin for error.

P.S. Finally got to race this season. Stoked to win the Enduro and 3rd in XC. 40 years old and still fighting in the pro class!
Congrats and much respect. As a wannabe Enduro racer and someone who you couldn’t pay to Dirt Lance, I’m not sure which result I’m more impressed with. I bet there were some killers in the Pro class in both disciplines.
 
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Chocki

Phil Edwards status
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Archer, not the arrow. In this case. ^^^
I normally agree with this statement in general. Mt bikes are a different story.

The introduction of Enduro geometry aka “long, low, and slack” over the past few years is a game changer. It changes how the bike rides and how you have to ride the bike.
 
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Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
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It's a Kona Taro/Honzo: HTA 68 degrees. I might be willing to try/buy a new hardtail if they implemented some of the ideas in @Chocki's awesome article. I don't know enough to chase around all these dimensions and at my level of riding, it probably doesn't matter that much. Maybe I'll wait a few years til they start making 26ers again haha. Not really thrilled with a 29er.
Those ideas have been implemented, only by companies you won’t hear about unless you do some digging. The key to the puzzle is knowing your reach measurement and HTA <= 64.5/65 deg

I’m convinced there is some fuckery going on here in the US between the major bike companies and review sites. You’ll be hard pressed to find reviews of anything outside of the stateside major players. The review sites always push bikes that are wicked expensive ($4k = price of normal bike?).
Econ 101 rules do not seem to apply (Economies of scale). Why is an Ibis Ripmo Af (rad bike) $1k more than a Whyte G170?

As far as not digging 29” wheels, I’m not surprised. Getting back into riding I debated going that route. To start with I never liked the way the looked on a bike (wagon wheels). I did some research and what sold me on 27.5 was a video where they were asking Enduro World Series riders what they thought about the difference between the two sizes. The big/tall riders were stocked right away. Pretty much everyone else preferred the “ride” of 27.5, said they felt faster/were more fun and only switched to 29 once they saw the faster times they produced.
 
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LelandCuz

Billy Hamilton status
Mar 21, 2011
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27.5 for fun, 29s for racing, unless you're really short or tall. No one feels a downside going from 26 to 27.5*.
*Well, it helps that a lot of peolple went from aluminum rims to carbon at the same time so weight stayed the same.
 

plasticbertrand

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Jan 12, 2009
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I normally agree with this statement in general. Mt bikes are a different story.

The introduction of Enduro geometry aka “long, low, and slack” over the past few years is a game changer. It changes how the bike rides and how you have to ride the bike.
I don't know, I ride all sort of bike geometries, from Enduro to XC to gravel to road and never felt like 'I was going to go over the bars' because of the bike.

Principles are the same regardless of the geometry. If he's going over the bars' on one bike, 2mm slacker bike is not going to solve that problem.

He's talking about "weighing the bars more" - Rider err.
 

ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
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Those ideas have been implemented, only by companies you won’t hear about unless you do some digging. The key to the puzzle is knowing your reach measurement and HTA <= 64.5/65 deg

I’m convinced there is some fuckery going on here in the US between the major bike companies and review sites. You’ll be hard pressed to find reviews of anything outside of the stateside major players. The review sites always push bikes that are wicked expensive ($4k = price of normal bike?).
Econ 101 rules do not seem to apply (Economies of scale). Why is an Ibis Ripmo Af (rad bike) $1k more than a Whyte G170?

As far as not digging 29” wheels, I’m not surprised. Getting back into riding I debated going that route. To start with I never liked the way the looked on a bike (wagon wheels). I did some research and what sold me on 27.5 was a video where they were asking Enduro World Series riders what they thought about the difference between the two sizes. The big/tall riders were stocked right away. Pretty much everyone else preferred the “ride” of 27.5, said they felt faster/were more fun and only switched to 29 once they saw the faster times they produced.
Why is a 27.5 hardtail so heavy (901 = 31 lbs)?

I'm tempted to build a titanium ht to keep up w my groms on climbs. I just got my first fs 2 years ago, but I can easily go back w the mellow riding I do w the groms. Litespeed has all the bikes, including frames on sale right now.

If anyone has any suggestions for a light ht, preferably a frame that I can build out, I'm listening. I like the sound of the whyte, but don't want a ht that's as heavy as my fs. We just refinanced and took out some extra $.
 

Chocki

Phil Edwards status
Feb 18, 2007
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I don't know, I ride all sort of bike geometries, from Enduro to XC to gravel to road and never felt like 'I was going to go over the bars' because of the bike.

Principles are the same regardless of the geometry. If he's going over the bars' on one bike, 2mm slacker bike is not going to solve that problem.

He's talking about "weighing the bars more" - Rider err.
It could be reach/too short a bike coupled with trying to ride new school style? I didn’t understand what riding “in the bike vs on the bike” meant until I got on a “long” bike (450mm reach Med). Felt like the bike was custom made for me. Once I started really focusing on improving my technical trail riding skills/trying to shred as hard as possible it definitely felt like a piece of the puzzle was missing on the old bike (Timberjack). With the change I instantly could tell that from now on the only thing holding me back was me. It was like what I can only imagine smoking crack for the first time is like. I had found what I was looking for and I didn’t want anything else, ever.

Fully impressed with your ability to deal with the different geometries.
 
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PRCD

Tom Curren status
Feb 25, 2020
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I normally agree with this statement in general. Mt bikes are a different story.

The introduction of Enduro geometry aka “long, low, and slack” over the past few years is a game changer. It changes how the bike rides and how you have to ride the bike.
I don't know if I could get used to that. If you DO go OTB on a modern bike, don't you have less time to react? I feel like an old-school riding technique leaves a lot of room to adjust and my face is simply farther from the ground. IOW, I like being upright.

I suppose I have to try it.
 

plasticbertrand

Duke status
Jan 12, 2009
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Why is a 27.5 hardtail so heavy (901 = 31 lbs)?

I'm tempted to build a titanium ht to keep up w my groms on climbs. I just got my first fs 2 years ago, but I can easily go back w the mellow riding I do w the groms. Litespeed has all the bikes, including frames on sale right now.

If anyone has any suggestions for a light ht, preferably a frame that I can build out, I'm listening. I like the sound of the whyte, but don't want a ht that's as heavy as my fs. We just refinanced and took out some extra $.
Santa Cruz Chameleon is a winner. Alu or carbon.

If you don't mind steel, Ritchey is making some great light-for-steel-frames.
 
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PRCD

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