Foilboard design, construction and durability.

grendel95

Billy Hamilton status
Nov 1, 2005
1,604
325
83
SJC
I'm on my second board, a 4'6 Freedom Techno and it's a great board, but the boxes have cracked and I opted to have them repaired. The repair is solid, full carbon replacement. Just from experience with fin box repairs in the past, repairs are never as strong as the original construction and with how much force is applied with a foil, I don't think it will last.

What is everyone riding and what are you considering for the future?
 

grg

Phil Edwards status
Mar 11, 2006
5,899
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Tuna Town/Baja
Ive seen many Foil Boxes fail and even from experienced installers. Way different than Surf Fin Box installs or repairs.

Its not just about having Carbon Glassed over the Foil Box. The Foam the boxes are in needs to be more dense. Ive had good experience fixing and installing with Pour Over foam.
 

ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
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Ive seen many Foil Boxes fail and even from experienced installers. Way different than Surf Fin Box installs or repairs.

Its not just about having Carbon Glassed over the Foil Box. The Foam the boxes are in needs to be more dense. Ive had good experience fixing and installing with Pour Over foam.
Do you do ding repair?

I know pure glass does hd foam inserts. They do freedom foil boards. Grendel still cracked his. Foiltheworld did a post on not tightening plates too tight bc others are cracking theirs, too.

Grendel and I talked about how the foilmount might be the strongest option. Being a cheap bastard, I can't see spending another $170 just for the mount though.
 

grg

Phil Edwards status
Mar 11, 2006
5,899
1,208
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Tuna Town/Baja
Do you do ding repair?

I know pure glass does hd foam inserts. They do freedom foil boards. Grendel still cracked his. Foiltheworld did a post on not tightening plates too tight bc others are cracking theirs, too.

Grendel and I talked about how the foilmount might be the strongest option. Being a cheap bastard, I can't see spending another $170 just for the mount though.
I do repair on my boards at work. Mostly wind and kite boards along with surf and SUP boards. Ive installed Mast tracks into crappy EPS foam using the Pour Over foam with great success. Lots of pressure on on those mast tracks especially on a Big SUP.

I would use the pour over instead of paying that much.
 
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Hdip

Michael Peterson status
Apr 23, 2005
3,337
797
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Malibu, CA
I don't really know. The Hurley brother's may be freaked out that Hurley is being sold and they may lose their jobs. Seems like they have boards in one of the Huntington shops somewhat regularly though.

Sad to hear that about the Freedom board as that is who I'm looking at to go to when this one finally breaks down.
 

Clamsmasher

Michael Peterson status
Apr 22, 2013
1,858
929
113
Nar
I'm on my second board, a 4'6 Freedom Techno and it's a great board, but the boxes have cracked and I opted to have them repaired. The repair is solid, full carbon replacement. Just from experience with fin box repairs in the past, repairs are never as strong as the original construction and with how much force is applied with a foil, I don't think it will last.

What is everyone riding and what are you considering for the future?
That's disappointing from a dedicated foilboard maker...not uncommon though.
I think the problem is often the prefabricated box cassettes most guys use.

They only sit 2" or so below the lam and aren't very large in area. They are usually gooped in with hard epoxy/qcell and there is no give to help translate force between the very rigid cassetthe and very soft foam (sometimes 1lb marshmallow).

I've been using 8lb pour foam like grg, either anchored to the deck or undercut (although 2lb blanks don't really need anchoring) with futures one shot boxes. The advantage is the foam exerts serious pressure as it expands locking it in, and it sticks like sh!t to a blanket. The foam around the install is slightly denser too as it has been compressed.

Carbon fibre, which is sexy and expensive....isn't magic and doesn't do sh!t if you don't play to it's strengths. It is way better to bag it, especially in the box region as you cannot see if it is wet at all, or perhaps too wet... there is always a degree of bridging on the sides of the box too.. Its better to slice the fabric covering the box as you laminate to ensure it holds tight to the sides of the box. Blobs of resin (which carbon floats on) or dry spots or voids will help the flanges to delam and crack. I also cap the whole box area after i've sanded the boxes open with 45bias carbon

Basically you want to stabilise the box area as much as possible. You need to run big laps in that aren and I run the capping layer of carbon all the way around to the deck, and forward of the boxes to add stiffness and stop the "hinging" action along the front of the foilplate or box install.
 
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Clamsmasher

Michael Peterson status
Apr 22, 2013
1,858
929
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Sorry forgot to add...because I make my own boards and they are relatively cheap I give them a very hard life. Kind of princess in the car park, whore in the water if you know what I mean.
ive sent them in thro pumping shorebreaks with big wings on them repeatedly as I’m leg rope averse....never ever cracked a box.
 

juandesooka

OTF status
Jan 12, 2009
346
294
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Building foil boards has been a fun start into surfboard building. I have always been intimated as surfboard design seems critical....foilboard design maybe less so.

My new one is going to be a copy of Armstrong board...friend has one , looks bomber.

Foil Mount...seems way too expensive for what you get. I hear the fail point will be delam...only held on my the fibreglass on top.

Cassette...they are not 8lb foam. I think 4 or 5. Probably work fine but not as heavy duty as you might diy.

I am frustrated by my latest install....twice in a row the HD foam has cratered when I set the epoxy in the fin box. Maybe it went exothermic or maybe it never set right....I am not trusting this new Foam It stuff I got. The prior yellow boat stuff worked great. Highlights that board building is "fun" but a lot of learning from mistakes
 
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ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
6,256
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Sozzle came up w/ a good point about the foam shrinking around the boxes. He said it might be due to the dark colors that many boards seem to be (carbon). Heating, expanding, cooling, then shrinking.

I think Grendel mentioned that it looked like the foam had shrunk around his boxes.
 
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Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
10,271
262
83
Maine
No comment :unsure: :ROFLMAO: :eek:

I was a track advocate for a long time. But in the long run a good Tuttle is the way to go.
 

Kaser1

Tom Curren status
May 3, 2004
10,271
262
83
Maine
A "Good" Tuttle or Track is the best way no?
Many variables with the option, mainly rider weight, skill level, etc.. Might not be a big deal for a lighter rider, doesn't beat the heck outa the board with pumping, tow ins, airs, etc...

I was not kind to my KT, and it held up pretty good for the year I had it.
 

grendel95

Billy Hamilton status
Nov 1, 2005
1,604
325
83
SJC
Checked out an Armstrong board today, kinda surprised to find it wasn't the sandwich construction I expected. Looked and felt solid, but the owner was a little dubious. I guess he uses it behind his boat and wasn't too thrilled at how easily it dinged compared to other wake equipment.

Board was really nice, not sure I could stand the paint job and huge logos for long though.
 
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May 15, 2017
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The spacestick boards have memory foam rails and and a skin covering the whole board.
The skin insulates from heat so the expansion and contraction does not happen.
The memory foam rails make a HUGE difference when you fall on the rail. You never noticed how many times you hit the rail until you have a Spacestick board.
Their boards haven't released fully to the public yet.
2 month backup on orders.
Nothing comes close to their design.

http://instagr.am/p/B5a0QE-H2bh/
 

ghostshaper

Phil Edwards status
Jan 22, 2005
6,256
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The spacestick boards have memory foam rails and and a skin covering the whole board.
The skin insulates from heat so the expansion and contraction does not happen.
The memory foam rails make a HUGE difference when you fall on the rail. You never noticed how many times you hit the rail until you have a Spacestick board.
Their boards haven't released fully to the public yet.
2 month backup on orders.
Nothing comes close to their design.

http://instagr.am/p/B5a0QE-H2bh/
where can I check one out in person?