Trapezoid Keels

Hullman

Legend (inyourownmind)
Apr 29, 2005
543
37
28
Pretty sure Greenough developed the paddle fins for use in his sail boards. So he did stand up on boards with these fins. He probably also tried them in his edge board knee boards since he sticks them on all of the surfboards he builds for Rasta.

I've used them in non flexy edge boards I've made, all single fins. They are very stable and fast in a straight line which is probably why he loved them in the sail boards. They turn really well if you pivot them or steer them in a flat kind of turn. But if you roll them up on a rail like a flex fin, they die. No drive. I thought they might work really well in a thruster fin set up where a center fin could provide the needed drive. Pain in the ass to make them and expensive to buy because Greenough's design required a really stiff "stem". My understanding from those in the know was that the only flex he wanted was rotational around the stem's axis.
 

Clamsmasher

Michael Peterson status
Apr 22, 2013
1,855
926
113
Nar
Years ago I remember seeing an MT flex tail with those hockey fins. It had a “false deck” and a carbon skin on the bottom, long before I’d seen carbon on any other boards. Holy crap I wanted that board.
 

GWS

Duke status
Jan 11, 2002
42,605
21
0
done
deforest said:
I get it that shapers get inspired by other shapers and everyone is constantly reusing every ones stuff, but when Tomo comes along with such unique looking boards, and tail shapes... and then someone creates something very similar, its kind of a turn off for me.
Arguably MT copied a LOT of his "unique looking boards" from Jeff Alexander. Many, many others have done squared off noses, bat tails, etc. In the 70's. Herbie Fletcher made the cover of surfer and got a bunch of inside the cover the shots riding squared off noses.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWg4mzADq7_/?utm_source=ig_embed

Hatchet fins were a popular addition during the longboard era and there are thousands of them with glass on hatchet fins. MT put some good boards together and they've been marketed well, but just because you are unaware of that which came before doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just about nothing is new. It's mostly all re-works, refinements and combining previously done elements in fresher ways.
 

deforestcooper

Nep status
Nov 1, 2016
878
97
28
California
www.instagram.com
GWS said:
deforest said:
I get it that shapers get inspired by other shapers and everyone is constantly reusing every ones stuff, but when Tomo comes along with such unique looking boards, and tail shapes... and then someone creates something very similar, its kind of a turn off for me.
Arguably MT copied a LOT of his "unique looking boards" from Jeff Alexander. Many, many others have done squared off noses, bat tails, etc. In the 70's. Herbie Fletcher made the cover of surfer and got a bunch of inside the cover the shots riding squared off noses.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWg4mzADq7_/?utm_source=ig_embed

Hatchet fins were a popular addition during the longboard era and there are thousands of them with glass on hatchet fins. MT put some good boards together and they've been marketed well, but just because you are unaware of that which came before doesn't mean it didn't happen. Just about nothing is new. It's mostly all re-works, refinements and combining previously done elements in fresher ways.
I will concede that just about everything has been tried or “attempted” at some point in history, but like you said, it doesn’t mean that something can’t be refined or mastered by another. I personally think Tomo has boiled down the simmons/parallel rail line/planing hull theory and mastered the concept. I also think he has documented his learning process well enough that he shouldn’t be accused of stealing someone else’s idea or design (not saying that’s what you’re doing, but there have been people who’ve made such accusations). From what I’ve read he has always given credit where credit was due.

I think the Gemini debate has been discussed Ad nauseam, so I won’t get into that. But like I said… I think Tomo is man enough to give credit where credit is due.
 

deforestcooper

Nep status
Nov 1, 2016
878
97
28
California
www.instagram.com
Nobody's hating. I just feel like a lot of his work is "extremely" similar to Tomo's. I cant be the first to suggest that or say it. Even Dane's theme and surfboard label "Vulcan" (which is a planet in Star Trek) is similar to Tomo's theme of Star Wars (Vader, Deathstar, Skywalker). Allegedly, Dane digitized Tomo's files for him when Tomo worked here in the States, so its questionable who influenced who. Look... I dont know who was first to go with the Science fiction thing, but its obvious there are some definite similarities!!

And, everybody has struggles and obstacles they overcome in life (myself included). This is all just constructive criticism not destructive criticism (or is it). And it doesnt seem like he's taking sh!t off anyone anyways.... so....
 

Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
7,682
12,216
113
in da hood next to paradise
deforest said:
Nobody's hating. I just feel like a lot of his work is "extremely" similar to Tomo's. I cant be the first to suggest that or say it. Even Dane's theme and surfboard label "Vulcan" (which is a planet in Star Trek) is similar to Tomo's theme of Star Wars (Vader, Deathstar, Skywalker). Allegedly, Dane digitized Tomo's files for him when Tomo worked here in the States, so its questionable who influenced who. Look... I dont know who was first to go with the Science fiction thing, but its obvious there are some definite similarities!!

And, everybody has struggles and obstacles they overcome in life (myself included). This is all just constructive criticism not destructive criticism. And it doesnt seem like he's taking sh!t off anyone anyways.... so....
tomo copied george lucas and roy stewart
 

deforestcooper

Nep status
Nov 1, 2016
878
97
28
California
www.instagram.com
sd_101 said:
You can’t just say you’re not hating and it suddenly be true.

At least some of the trolls admit they are one. First you went after the fins and were proven wrong. Now you’re going after the outline and logo.

You wreak of bias, too.

All I know is I saw a Bullshark at my local in the lineup well before I knew what dafuq a Tomo was/is.
If I was hating I’d say that Dane is a copy-cat that ripped off designs and glassing techniques from well known shapers and manufacturers for his own profit. I didn’t say anything like that in my previous post???

Define troll?? I didn’t seek out anything. I just commented on a post that caught my interest.

You pull up Vulcans website and then pull up Tomos and give honest feedback about Vulcans designs and even boards names and tell me with a straight face they aren’t similar?
 

Havoc

Phil Edwards status
May 23, 2016
7,682
12,216
113
in da hood next to paradise
deforest said:
sd_101 said:
You can’t just say you’re not hating and it suddenly be true.

At least some of the trolls admit they are one. First you went after the fins and were proven wrong. Now you’re going after the outline and logo.

You wreak of bias, too.

All I know is I saw a Bullshark at my local in the lineup well before I knew what dafuq a Tomo was/is.
If I was hating I’d say that Dane is a copy-cat that ripped off designs and glassing techniques from well known shapers and manufacturers for his own profit. I didn’t say anything like that in my previous post???

Define troll?? I didn’t seek out anything. I just commented on a post that caught my interest.

You pull up Vulcans website and then pull up Tomos and give honest feedback about Vulcans designs and even boards names and tell me with a straight face they aren’t similar?
U guys need to have a breatholding contest at oceanside harbor. Oceanslide can be the judge!
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
38,642
27,984
113
Havoc4k said:
deforest said:
sd_101 said:
You can’t just say you’re not hating and it suddenly be true.

At least some of the trolls admit they are one. First you went after the fins and were proven wrong. Now you’re going after the outline and logo.

You wreak of bias, too.

All I know is I saw a Bullshark at my local in the lineup well before I knew what dafuq a Tomo was/is.
If I was hating I’d say that Dane is a copy-cat that ripped off designs and glassing techniques from well known shapers and manufacturers for his own profit. I didn’t say anything like that in my previous post???

Define troll?? I didn’t seek out anything. I just commented on a post that caught my interest.

You pull up Vulcans website and then pull up Tomos and give honest feedback about Vulcans designs and even boards names and tell me with a straight face they aren’t similar?
U guys need to have a breatholding contest at oceanside harbor. Oceanslide can be the judge!
Reading what defroster wrote made me a little sad for him. He’s got Tomo’s balls so far down his throat he can’t think straight.

The sh!t he said about Greenough shows so much ignorance about Greenough and his contributions to surfing, sail boarding, boating....living, I couldn’t even begin to respond. It also shows a massive abmount of ignorance about surfboards in general, their history and how we got to where we are today.

It’s just really disappointing.
 

grendel95

Billy Hamilton status
Nov 1, 2005
1,604
325
83
SJC
Greenough and the Thomson family are "neighbors" in Lennox head and have been working on and off together for ages.

5'5 x 19 1/4" Curren section has him riding a Greenough guided self shape with the MT hatchet fins. Read the description of the clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQO9DLLyybw

I've heard George and Mark had a falling out awhile back.

Anyways, I think the trapezoid keels are worth a shot. Kinda remind me of Halcyon's designs.


And I thought Vulcan was the old guy's Tomo, I've only ever seen one Vulcan less than 30L
 

retodd

Duke status
Feb 23, 2009
16,757
2,177
113
In regards to fin design

The posted keels will work ( anything works )

But as GG posted some many years ago that made me LOL

I don't need to try square wheels to feel how good they work!
 

Duffy LaCoronilla

Duke status
Apr 27, 2016
38,642
27,984
113
Anyways, I think the trapezoid keels are worth a shot.
Yeah, I still need to try my Lovelace Piggyback keels before spending another $100 on fins.

Maybe if we get some surf this winter.....
 

deforestcooper

Nep status
Nov 1, 2016
878
97
28
California
www.instagram.com
Duffy said:
Reading what defroster wrote made me a little sad for him. He’s got Tomo’s balls so far down his throat he can’t think straight.

The sh!t he said about Greenough shows so much ignorance about Greenough and his contributions to surfing, sail boarding, boating....living, I couldn’t even begin to respond. It also shows a massive abmount of ignorance about surfboards in general, their history and how we got to where we are today.

It’s just really disappointing.
I think there was a misunderstanding in what I wrote. What I meant by saying "I've never seen a picture of Greenough riding a kneeboard, or standing up for that matter" is that he was not a surfer and never surfed those hatchet fins himself (i.e. there are no pictures of him surfing because he didnt surf)... and I dont think he ever used those hatchet style fins on his spoon designs either? Of course I've seen photos of him, and I understand his contribution to surfing, sailing, and windsurfing, but to my understanding Greenough made a career out of filming. He wasn't a shaper or a surfer he was more of an inventor (at least thats my understanding).

Mark Thomson has told me that him and Greenough sailed everyday together for years... and I've read that they were good friends, but I dont know exactly what happened that caused them to part ways. I talk with the Thomson's fairly often so I think my understanding should be accurate, but if any of you old school guys have a different account or disagree, by all means, please let me know.