Never forget…

[estreet]

that's not an answer to the question i asked you

You’re conflating personal ‘end of life’ decisions with a national response to a pandemic, ineffectively resorting to a fallacy.

 

[afoaf]

Ya’ll don’t care if older Americans and people with health issues die as long as you can go to happy hour at Cracker Barrel, in other words. That was always quite clear.

nobody ever said this. its a gross mischaracterization.

didn't ifallalot say something to the effect that old people were going to die anyway?

vespaghetti spammed that quote quite a bit....

Yes. Many, many times

We have kids that will have negative effects for the rest of their lives just so dementia patients on oxygen could live a couple more months

attn: crustBrother

 

[crustBrother]

attn: crustBrother

so @Ifallalot says "old people are going to die" and @estreet concludes that @Ifallalot does not care?

well, maybe @Ifallalot indeed does not care. i cannot see inside his head.

the only thing i can tell you for sure is that i also acknowledge that "old people are going to die" and believe that fact has a bearing on what resources we as a society expend on their care. and i do care about old people. but i also care about young people.

and i would not trade away a significant part of young peoples' futures in a futile attempt to extend a relatively small part of old peoples' lives.

that seems like a bad trade to me. apparently a majority of people think its a good trade. jolly for them.

 

[estreet]

They matter. Just not at the economic expense of the other 99.99% of the country

So in your fantasy world without economic expense, Americans watched the deadly pandemic on the news each night, seeing the death count, hospitals overrun, and story after story of personal tragedy, and they just ignore it all and send their kids to school, go to the office every day, and enjoy happy hour at Cracker Barrel on the way home.

You have a rich fantasy life.

Worse? It's also a function of the worldwide economy, especially in a small and isolated country like that which was directly affected by it's insanely paranoid neighbors

So in your fantasy world, not only does the US government ignore the pandemic, they somehow force all other nations to ignore the pandemic.

You have a super rich fantasy life.

Who's rewriting history here?

For instance, in your rewrite only "dementia patients on oxygen" died of covid. That you feel the need for hyperbole indicates that you do care on some level though. Feelings are nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[estreet]

that seems like a bad trade to me. apparently a majority of people think its a good trade. jolly for them.

What you fail to acknowledge is that it was never a trade.

 

[grapedrink]

didn't ifallalot say something to the effect that old people were going to die anyway?

vespaghetti spammed that quote quite a bit....

FF/PB chopped it up and put it in quotes to make it look worse than it was and put it in his signature. Then got his hand slapped by mods

 

[crustBrother]

What you fail to acknowledge is that it was never a trade.

you think the lockdowns, remote learning, and trillions of dollars printed to fund the lockdown have no impact on the future of the next generation?

it does have an impact. that impact is the trade. and the really sad thing is that the old people got next to nothing out of that trade.

 

[grapedrink]

you think the lockdowns, remote learning, and trillions of dollars printed to fund the lockdown have no impact on the future of the next generation?

it does have an impact. that impact is the trade. and the really sad thing is that the old people got next to nothing out of that trade.

Housing market is irreparably fooked in Coastal California and many other desirable markets. Everything shot up in price by $100-200k+ in a short span, inventory is in the shitter, and now the rates are 2-3X what they were before

 

[estreet]

you think the lockdowns, remote learning, and trillions of dollars printed to fund the lockdown have no impact on the future of the next generation?

it does have an impact. that impact is the trade. and the really sad thing is that the old people got next to nothing out of that trade.

Do you actually think that if there were no lockdowns people would have ignored the pandemic and gone about business as usual? You can’t actually think that, seriously.

Incidentally, even the Trump administration extended the lockdowns. If there was ever an administration that would have tried to prevent them it would have been that administration. So how could they have possibly been prevented?

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

Do you actually think that if there were no lockdowns people would have ignored the pandemic and gone about business as usual? You can’t actually think that, seriously.

Yeah he can. We might not agree with it, but Free Will exists.

 

[crustBrother]

Do you actually think that if there were no lockdowns people would have ignored the pandemic and gone about business as usual?

of course nobody would have ignored it. but gone about business as usual?

yes. the vast majority would have. and i don't think that. i *know* that. because sweden. because south dakota.

 

[crustBrother]

Free Will exists.

you just couldn't resist could you

 

[grapedrink]

Do you actually think that if there were no lockdowns people would have ignored the pandemic and gone about business as usual? You can’t actually think that, seriously.

A lot of people would have. I still went out to eat, grocery shopped, hung out with friends etc. Probably would've gone to the gym. Would've done it all without a mask as well. Much of the restrictions in California lacked logic and were mostly for optics.

Plenty of states went back to semi-normalcy in regards to the above and people weren't dropping dead at disproportionate rates because of it. The onus should've been on the vulnerable to protect themselves, not the other way around.

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

you just couldn't resist could you

 

[ghost_of_lewis_samuels]

but Free Will exists.

where is this demonstrated?

 

[Sharkbiscuit]

where is this demonstrated?

The Fjords and the Badlands?

Every time a Stanford Professor doesn't use semester breaks to molest wild African primates?

 

[afoaf]

so @Ifallalot says "old people are going to die" and @estreet concludes that @Ifallalot does not care?

well, maybe @Ifallalot indeed does not care. i cannot see inside his head.

the only thing i can tell you for sure is that i also acknowledge that "old people are going to die" and believe that fact has a bearing on what resources we as a society expend on their care. and i do care about old people. but i also care about young people.

and i would not trade away a significant part of young peoples' futures in a futile attempt to extend a relatively small part of old peoples' lives.

that seems like a bad trade to me. apparently a majority of people think its a good trade. jolly for them.

it seems like a bad trade because you've framed it in the most histrionic way possible as part of a very convoluted attempt to qualify what is effectively an acknowledgement that what estreet said, and what you originally objected to, is, in fact, accurate

mind you, I'm not making a value judgment, however, ironically, your logic does

 

[estreet]

yes. the vast majority would have. and i don't think that. i *know* that. because sweden. because south dakota.

The Swedes didn't ignore it. From the National Library of Medicine:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden was among the few countries that did not enforce strict lockdown measures. Instead, the country relied on its citizens' voluntary behavioral changes, considering them to be more sustainable. This approach involved enforcing physical distancing, encouraging working from home, limiting social gatherings and travel, prohibiting most public events, and so on. Initially, masks were mandatory only in healthcare and older adult care settings, but later they were also recommended for crowded public transport. Kindergartens, primary schools, and secondary schools remained open throughout the pandemic, which was a unique policy. A large majority (>90%) of the Swedish population approved, endorsed, and complied with the Swedish policies, according to repeated public polls conducted during the pandemic by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency.

Greater than 90% voluntary compliance with those recommendations is hardly ignoring the pandemic. Why can't you accept that people fear a deadly pandemic???

Initial results not good, but they seem to have done better in later years.



Economic results appear to be unavoidable.

 

[hammies]

A lot of people would have. I still went out to eat, grocery shopped, hung out with friends etc. Probably would've gone to the gym. Would've done it all without a mask as well. Much of the restrictions in California lacked logic and were mostly for optics.

Plenty of states went back to semi-normalcy in regards to the above and people weren't dropping dead at disproportionate rates because of it. The onus should've been on the vulnerable to protect themselves, not the other way around.

IMO the recession would have been longer and worse. Let's say half of America went about its business as usual and half only would do the absolute necessary outings (groceries, gas, etc.) - no entertainment, eating out, and so on. In a consumer-based economy this is an enormous hit, let's say a 20% reduction in overall activity. The laissez faire government wouldn't have put the PPP protections in place, business would be closing right and left, layoffs would hit, and so on.

 

[estreet]

A lot of people would have. I still went out to eat, grocery shopped, hung out with friends etc.

So did we. I'm missing your point for some reason because we did that without ignoring the pandemic.

Probably would've gone to the gym.

"Probably." Finally a little honesty.