10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

[SurfFuerteventura]

You seem really defensive. Maybe go burn another one down before you continue reading...I mean that in a friendly way (insert bouncing head reefer madness emoji here).

If you've paid any attention to this thread you would have discerned that I have never really given any advice. I come here to get advice. Some of the advice I was given was strength training and specifically barbell training. This advice, given by others, was never given without caveats. I doubt Von Meister has a blanket training plan that is the same for everyone. It's probably more like Greg Griffin fins- designed for the particular board.

My problem was when you said, "He said to STAY AWAY FROM THE WEIGHTS when you're (sic) spine is structurally damaged." He probably said this with with regards to your specific case but you presented it as a general truth. That statement, as a general rule, is flat out wrong. I'm not saying it's wrong for your situation, or for Bob Dobbalina's, or Feralseppo's. I would not and did not disregard my MDs before embarking on my rehab routine. But for the majority of spinal structural damage, AKA degenerative disc disease, AKA normal wear and tear, strength training is the best RX.
Havoc and I have disagreements about the dosage but not the RX. Lifted my toddler weights this PM and feel good.

strength training for back pain

From the link you so kindly provided...

"Weight lifting for back pain
Done properly, lifting weights doesn't usually hurt your back. In fact, it may help relieve chronic back pain. But when you have acute (sudden) back pain, putting extra stress on back muscles and ligaments could raise risk of further injury. Ask your doctor whether you should lift weights, and which exercises to avoid"

We do agree on something.

IT IS FOOLISH OF EVERY SINGLE POSTER ON HERE WHO HAPHAZARDLY RECOMMENDED LIFTING WEIGHTS TO ALEVIATE BACK PAIN.

SEE A REAL MD BEFORE TOUCHING WEIGHTS, THEY MAY VERY WELL END YOU UP IN A WHEELCHAIR.

I mean, how do you all know the people you tell to lift are free of sttuctural injury?

Right, you don't. But yet, go lift.

I'll see you after I hit 635.

 

[VonMeister]

From the link you so kindly provided...

"Weight lifting for back pain
Done properly, lifting weights doesn't usually hurt your back. In fact, it may help relieve chronic back pain. But when you have acute (sudden) back pain, putting extra stress on back muscles and ligaments could raise risk of further injury. Ask your doctor whether you should lift weights, and which exercises to avoid"

We do agree on something.

IT IS FOOLISH OF EVERY SINGLE POSTER ON HERE WHO HAPHAZARDLY RECOMMENDED LIFTING WEIGHTS TO ALEVIATE BACK PAIN.

SEE A REAL MD BEFORE TOUCHING WEIGHTS, THEY MAY VERY WELL END YOU UP IN A WHEELCHAIR.

I mean, how do you all know the people you tell to lift are free of sttuctural injury?

Right, you don't. But yet, go lift.

I'll see you after I hit 635.

Is there a list of people who began a strength training program to address recurring non specific back pain who subsequently wound up in wheel chairs? I’ll wait.

 

[PRCD]

Exactly no one on here said to start deadlifting in the acute phase of low back pain.

 

[SurfFuerteventura]

I get that you guys think I am stupid.

I too understand this.

Accept it, and fully embrace it as well.

I trust though that I am smart enough to know to follow the advice of those smarter than I; thus the reason why I don't listen to all you "lifters".

At least I know I am stupid, so I got that going on you.

 

[VonMeister]

I get that you guys think I am stupid.

I too understand this.

Accept it, and fully embrace it as well.

I trust though that I am smart enough to know to follow the advice of those smarter than I; thus the reason why I don't listen to all you "lifters".

At least I know I am stupid, so I got that going on you.

So you don't want to answer the question.

Let's try an easier one.

You keep claiming your Portuguese surgeon is top ten in the world. I'm sure you had a reason to make this claim...Can you provide the ranking list you used to make this claim? I'll wait.

 

[One-Off]

From the link you so kindly provided...

"Weight lifting for back pain
Done properly, lifting weights doesn't usually hurt your back. In fact, it may help relieve chronic back pain. But when you have acute (sudden) back pain, putting extra stress on back muscles and ligaments could raise risk of further injury. Ask your doctor whether you should lift weights, and which exercises to avoid"

We do agree on something.

IT IS FOOLISH OF EVERY SINGLE POSTER ON HERE WHO HAPHAZARDLY RECOMMENDED LIFTING WEIGHTS TO ALEVIATE BACK PAIN.

SEE A REAL MD BEFORE TOUCHING WEIGHTS, THEY MAY VERY WELL END YOU UP IN A WHEELCHAIR.

I mean, how do you all know the people you tell to lift are free of sttuctural injury?

Right, you don't. But yet, go lift.

I'll see you after I hit 635.

Article written by one of the TOP THREE neuro surgeons (got your guy beat)-

Early initiation of a strength training based rehabilitation after lumbar spine fusion improves core muscle strength: a randomized controlled trial - Journal of Orthopaedic Surgery and Research

Background To analyze the safety and effects of early initiation of rehabilitation including objective measurement outcomes after lumbar spine fusion based on principles of strength training. Methods The study recruited 27 patients, aged 45 to 70 years, who had undergone lumbar spine fusion. The...

josr-online.biomedcentral.com

 

[Mr J]

Article written by one of the TOP THREE neuro surgeons (got your guy beat)-

Early initiation of a strength training based rehabilitation after lumbar spine fusion improves core muscle strength: a randomized controlled trial - Journal of Orthopaedic Surgery and Research

Background To analyze the safety and effects of early initiation of rehabilitation including objective measurement outcomes after lumbar spine fusion based on principles of strength training. Methods The study recruited 27 patients, aged 45 to 70 years, who had undergone lumbar spine fusion. The...

josr-online.biomedcentral.com

strength training is a broad category of exercises. The strength program in that research is not what I call weight training - isometric lumbar exercises to start with, then use of a machine - I presume one of those seated lumbar machines. Its weight training of sorts I suppose, but not squats and deadlifts. I would call a smith machine weight training, but doesn't look like that was used.

 

[Mr J]

Don't do these at home folks, but my chiro says it is absolutely fine for me and I really like them. Started off with a week of no weight. Then a set of just 3kg on the weekend, which gave me mild DOMS the next day. Did another set with 3kg yesterday evening and no DOMS today. As well as ham strings it seems to stretch me in the upper rear pelvis area which is a place that all that squatting on my skimboard seems to work. Plus I like the idea of maintaining a good length in my hamstrings.

I have been doing 5 reps, holding the stretch for 10 seconds, which is how I do some of my other stretches.

 

[SurfFuerteventura]

Also, where was the "top 3" mention?

My only reference to "my" guys ranking, if you read what I wrote, was what one of the people about to be operated mentioned ....

From page 40-something, so you don't have to look for it...

Dr de la Torre

Link for anyone interested.

While I sat in the wheelchair awaiting my procedure, I met a couple of pro golfers and a pro football player (the rest of the worlds football, where the foot actually touches the ball), two professional snow people (1 female skiier 1 male snowboarder). Think it was one of the golfers who mentioned the 5th best in the world thing. All I know is among the mentioned above were a Swiss, a Korean, an American, a French and an Arab. The guy must know what he's doing to have people travelling from half a world away to pay him €300k to fix them, huh? Surely there's neurosurgeons in Saudi Arabia, Korea, France, Switzerland not to mention the USA.

Yeah, we all found him on the Playboy list of top 5, have some class!

Finding a neurosurgeon in Penthouse is like getting your lawyer out of the back of Rolling Stone!



I too read Sarno's book... Remember at the beginning, where it said "BARRING NON-CORRECTIBLE PHYSICAL INJURY"?

Me? I had three vertebrae in very bad shape, no discs between them at all, the middle vertebrae calcified in places and turned to sand in others. Nerve loss, muscle loss, etc... No amount of squats nor deadlifts can help when you are physically broken, fractured. First, fix it.. then squat and deadlift to recover.

Otherwise you are just furthering the damage.

That's not my humble opinion, that's what the neurosurgeon who actually went to medical school, invented new procedures, taught other neurosurgeons his ground breaking procedures and operated on royalty said.

But yeah, I think it better to trust some kook who can "take Mike Tyson" strengthman on the interwebs word over a trained doctor.

p.s. see the second highlighted section where I agree with lifting as recovery after getting fixed, in the cases where "broken" is an issue?

so, not quite sure what all the 'disagreement' is aboot anyhoo.

 

[One-Off]

Don't do these at home folks, but my chiro says it is absolutely fine for me and I really like them. Started off with a week of no weight. Then a set of just 3kg on the weekend, which gave me mild DOMS the next day. Did another set with 3kg yesterday evening and no DOMS today. As well as ham strings it seems to stretch me in the upper rear pelvis area which is a place that all that squatting on my skimboard seems to work. Plus I like the idea of maintaining a good length in my hamstrings.

I have been doing 5 reps, holding the stretch for 10 seconds, which is how I do some of my other stretches.

Have you watched his other videos?

 

[Mr J]

Have you watched his other videos?

Tom Merrick's vids? No, I only watched his jefferson curl one - more than once to make sure I am getting all the points he made. I will take a look.

However, just watched all of the Kneesovertoesguy vid you posted - impressive. Taking loaded stretching to the next level and looks like he has trained elite basketball and even golf athletes. I'm too old and not athletic enough to use the body weight percentages he is demonstrating, but that vid has given me a few ideas which I can do at a more modest level.

 

[Chocki]

Tom Merrick's vids? No, I only watched his jefferson curl one - more than once to make sure I am getting all the points he made. I will take a look.

However, just watched all of the Kneesovertoesguy vid you posted - impressive. Taking loaded stretching to the next level and looks like he has trained elite basketball and even golf athletes. I'm too old and not athletic enough to use the body weight percentages he is demonstrating, but that vid has given me a few ideas which I can do at a more modest level.

Tbh I’m not that impressed at all by ATG/Knees guy.
He looks tall, so big fucking deal that he can dunk now.
No mention anywhere I looked as to what his credentials are.
All his magic secret methods look over complicated and dumb.
Pro athletes aren’t any better than the average Joe at discerning what constitutes valid training methods. I met a guy who was training an active LHW UFC fighter. Had him doing circuits on the machines at the gym like the old people do.

 

[PRCD]

Tbh I’m not that impressed at all by ATG/Knees guy.
He looks tall, so big fucking deal that he can dunk now.
No mention anywhere I looked as to what his credentials are.
All his magic secret methods look over complicated and dumb.
Pro athletes aren’t any better than the average Joe at discerning what constitutes valid training methods. I met a guy who was training an active LHW UFC fighter. Had him doing circuits on the machines at the gym like the old people do.

Interesting that you'll listen to and believe Shank purely based on his performance of impressive athletic feats, yet won't do the same for KneesOverToesGuy. This video examines the evidence base of KOTG's claims:

Post your vertical leap and 40 yard dash time, as well as your powerlifting total, please.

 

[VonMeister]

Max Shank is certified in YouTube.

Both Max Shank and the knees over toes guy are goofballs that are trying to make a living as "movement specialists" fitness youtubers and e-book authors so they need everything to be exciting, fresh, and new.

Pro-athletes and other genetically gifted people can get away with fitness nonsense because their genetics allow them to be extremely sensitive to training stress....it's why they are high level athletes.

 

[Chocki]

Interesting that you'll listen to and believe Shank purely based on his performance of impressive athletic feats, yet won't do the same for KneesOverToesGuy. This video examines the evidence base of KOTG's claims:

Post your vertical leap and 40 yard dash time, as well as your powerlifting total, please.

That vid you posted did nothing to change my mind. Wasn’t surprised it was by some NASM PT calling himself a strength coach.
I’ve trained in person with Max. He was my KB cert instructor.
But don’t take my (former CSCS) word for how dank he is.

But Can You Move Your Body?

I hate Max Shank. He’s a phenomenal strength coach with a unique perspective and approach that I admire. He’s also a lovely human being. But I still hate him. Why? Because I’m not him. He can do cool stuff like deadlift 315 (for reps)….on one leg. He can do handstands, backflips, L-sits...

tonygentilcore.com

tony gentilcore - Google Search

 

[Chocki]

Max Shank is certified in YouTube.

Both Max Shank and the knees over toes guy are goofballs that are trying to make a living as "movement specialists" fitness youtubers and e-book authors so they need everything to be exciting, fresh, and new.

Pro-athletes and other genetically gifted people can get away with fitness nonsense because their genetics allow them to be extremely sensitive to training stress....it's why they are high level athletes.

What are you certified in other than deadlifts?

 

[VonMeister]

What are you certified in other than deadlifts?

Pointing out dipshits like you on the internet.

Just stfu and read this book.

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www.amazon.com

 

[Chocki]

I'm too old and not athletic enough to use the body weight percentages he is demonstrating, but that vid has given me a few ideas which I can do at a more modest level.

From the sounds of it I think GMB would be a good fit for you.

GMB Fitness - Play With Yourself

GMB teaches fun, smart exercises that give you the physical autonomy to pursue whatever activities you enjoy.

gmb.io

Best Routines & Tutorials From GMB

Move better with less pain and restriction - exercise tutorials, guides, and concepts that will make your life better.

gmb.io

 

[Chocki]

Pointing out dipshits like you on the internet.

This dipshit managed to get his CSCS .
I’m still waiting for you tell us what your certification is...

 

[VonMeister]

This dipshit managed to get his CSCS .
I’m still waiting for you tell us what your certification is...

First, there's isn't a strength and conditioning certification that exists today with the academic rigor and aptitude requirements necessary to demonstrate competency in being a strength and conditioning coach. I don't know why, but there just isn't.

No one manages to get a CSCS. You pay the online fee and you get the online certification.

Congratulations. You are now qualified for a job at 24 hour fitness.

The only reason to get a CSCS is if your too stupid to get insurance any other way.

I guarantee with 100% certainty you could not properly coach a trainee in the Squat, The Deadlift, the Bench Press, the Overhead Press or any related assistance exercise. I'm equally certain you could not develop a reasonable strength and conditioning program for any level of trainee, from novice to advanced.