Universal Basic Income

Feb 24, 2021
56
51
18
There's definitely a ripple effect on wages when the minimum wage goes up, but it's almost entirely concentrated at the low end of the wage spectrum.
I would say that the elasticity is up to $5.00 per hour max. A worker making $20 an hour is not impacted by another making $15.

A semi skilled burger flipper will want 50 cents to a dollar more than a new hire, but that is the extent of it.

There is demonstrable proof of this. A burger flipper wage will top out at say $17 an hour at a premium burger flipping establishment like in-n-out. If McDonald's raises their wage to $15, the premier in-n-out flipper will not strike and demand a higher wage, more than a dollar or two. A toner copier salesman, at $25 an hour, will imagine himself superior when comparing himself, and still be satisfied. A sewer pipe scrubber @ $30 an hour, will in fact be superior to both the burger flipper and the G.E.D. holding toner salesman. The scrubber is satisfied knowing that even if he smells like shít at the end of the day, he is in a better caste than the other two, and the wage elasticity ends.
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,204
22,752
113
I would say that the elasticity is up to $5.00 per hour max. A worker making $20 an hour is not impacted by another making $15.

A semi skilled burger flipper will want 50 cents to a dollar more than a new hire, but that is the extent of it.

There is demonstrable proof of this. A burger flipper wage will top out at say $17 an hour at a premium burger flipping establishment like in-n-out. If McDonald's raises their wage to $15, the premier in-n-out flipper will not strike and demand a higher wage, more than a dollar or two. A toner copier salesman, at $25 an hour, will imagine himself superior when comparing himself, and still be satisfied. A sewer pipe scrubber @ $30 an hour, will in fact be superior to both the burger flipper and the G.E.D. holding toner salesman. The scrubber is satisfied knowing that even if he smells like shít at the end of the day, he is in a better caste than the other two, and the wage elasticity ends.
ohaithere!
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
Rich guy always has a reason for poor guy not getting a break.

"OH, you can't do that because . . ." :poop:

I was making 15 an hour in the grocery business in the 80s.

Walmart's pay is so low that government has to give the workers money.

We must protect the Walton family?
So, you really think the people with some skills currently making around $15 +/- an hour in low wage areas like the midwest, south and others, are going to be jazzed when they make as much or just slightly more than a burger flipper?

That whole $14 to $20 pay range for apprentice and some experience skill sets are going to want quite a bit more for their work. And it just works up the ladder from there. Will it affect the $40-$50+ an hour folks? Probably not much. But average wage in USA is about $25 an hour (full time, very roughly). Median wage is only about $19 an hour (full time, roughly).

You think these people in the $16-25 an hour range will be stoked that they only make a few bucks more a hour than a burger flipper with little to no skills?
 
Feb 24, 2021
56
51
18
So, you really think the people with some skills currently making around $15 +/- an hour in low wage areas like the midwest, south and others, are going to be jazzed when they make as much or just slightly more than a burger flipper?

That whole $14 to $20 pay range for apprentice and some experience skill sets are going to want quite a bit more for their work. And it just works up the ladder from there. Will it affect the $40-$50+ an hour folks? Probably not much. But average wage in USA is about $25 an hour (full time, very roughly). Median wage is only about $19 an hour (full time, roughly).

You think these people in the $16-25 an hour range will be stoked that they only make a few bucks more a hour than a burger flipper with little to no skills?
Stoked doesn't matter. They can be jealous, but what are they going to do, quit? The wage ceiling is also part of how much the customer will pay for that service. The barber can complain all he wants, but if the customer won't pay, well then he is done.

Personally, I'd really like it if the copier salesman in Mississippi made a whole lot more. Then my Federal tax dollars won't go there to support them.

There was some poster here, a while back, dancing a jig, because he got a dollar an hour extra from Trump's tax deal. Imagine the back flips he would do for $15 an hour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CutnSnip

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
Don't cry when REAL inflation rears its ugly head again. We kind of need it.

But can get out of control like it did in the 70's real easy if not kept in check (super high interest rates)
 
Feb 24, 2021
56
51
18
Don't cry when REAL inflation rears its ugly head again. We kind of need it.

But can get out of control like it did in the 70's real easy if not kept in check (super high interest rates)
Real inflation is already here. How much is a pretend bit coin again?
 

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,204
22,752
113
Don't cry when REAL inflation rears its ugly head again. We kind of need it.

But can get out of control like it did in the 70's real easy if not kept in check (super high interest rates)
you keep repeating the same fallacy over and over again

rising minimum wage was not the cause of inflation in the 70's

it was an orthogonal response

increased minimum wages can have a stimulating effect, increasing employment as
consumer spending increases, reducing unemployment, and mitigating inflation
 
  • Like
Reactions: plasticbertrand
Feb 24, 2021
56
51
18
you keep repeating the same fallacy over and over again

rising minimum wage was not the cause of inflation in the 70's

it was an orthogonal response

increased minimum wages can have a stimulating effect, increasing employment as
consumer spending increases, reducing unemployment, and mitigating inflation
Let him have his opinion on the 70's. Otherwise, he his going to start on Weimar republic, printing presses, and Jews.
 

kidfury

Duke status
Oct 14, 2017
24,647
10,479
113
"The minimum wage increased to $2.00 an hour in 1974, $2.10 in 1975, and $2.30 in 1976 for all except farm workers, whose minimum initially rose to $1.60. Parity with nonfarm workers was reached at $2.30 with the 1977 amendments.
The 1977 amendments, by eliminating the separate lower minimum for large agricultural employers (although retaining the overtime exemption), set a new uniform wage schedule for all covered workers. The minimum went to $2.65 an hour in January 1978, $2.90 in January 1979, $3.10 in January 1980."
 

Aruka

Tom Curren status
Feb 23, 2010
11,981
22,506
113
PNW
So, you really think the people with some skills currently making around $15 +/- an hour in low wage areas like the midwest, south and others, are going to be jazzed when they make as much or just slightly more than a burger flipper?

That whole $14 to $20 pay range for apprentice and some experience skill sets are going to want quite a bit more for their work. And it just works up the ladder from there. Will it affect the $40-$50+ an hour folks? Probably not much. But average wage in USA is about $25 an hour (full time, very roughly). Median wage is only about $19 an hour (full time, roughly).

You think these people in the $16-25 an hour range will be stoked that they only make a few bucks more a hour than a burger flipper with little to no skills?
Uhhh, yeah dude, the whole point is to raise wages for the working class. If you've been paying attention for the past 30-40 years the costs of living such as healthcare, college, rent, etc have far outpaced wage growth.

If the minimum wage had kept pace with productivity since 1968 (as it had for the previous 30 years) it would be $18 today. A $7.25 minimum wage in the year 2021 is fuggin appalling , no matter the state.

Where did much of that money from the increased productivity go?

"When it comes to the pace of annual pay increases, the top 1% wage grew 138% since 1979, while wages for the bottom 90% grew 15%" source

Wealth and income disparity is a huge problem with so many downsides for the population as a whole. It hasn't always been this way though and I hope we can turn this around and save the middle class.

C'mon surfdog, let's make america great again.
 

enframed

Tom Curren status
Apr 11, 2006
11,639
6,431
113
Del Boca Vista, Phase III
You think these people in the $16-25 an hour range will be stoked that they only make a few bucks more a hour than a burger flipper with little to no skills?
You're talking out of your ass.

Ever flipped burgers at a fast food chain? I have..

Anyone who gets upset about burger cooks at fast food places being paid more is a straight up dick, and a small one at that.

Also, they have a skill: making food really fast while putting up with a LOT of bullshit from sexual harassment to drug abuse to being treated like absolute sh|t by many of their customers, all at the same damn time, every shift.

People who don't have to flip burgers just thank their fucking lucky stars they don't have to flip fucking burgers.

Not everyone is as petty as you seem to be.
 

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
I worked at KFC as a deep fry pressure cook in high school. Was trying to get a job as bus boy at Tony's on the Pier (would've been a gold mine compared). It was a hell job at times, but fun and good experience in others. Got to flirt with the order clerk girls from my and other high schools. Got work experience credit in school equal to 2 classes a day. Which meant many days out of school by noon, to either work or surf. Yeah. Those jobs were NEVER meant for raising a family with 2 kids or to buy a house. They were entry level to learn work experience. If you're 25-30 still working those type jobs, you need to re-think your strategies/priorities.

I could've worked my way up to be a manager type at KFC, but after seeing all the burn scares (splashing super hot oil) on the arms of the manager there, I decided to move on. Already had a few myself. Worked a stint installing speaker parts in a high end woodshop, just prior to my grunt construction days. All were just barely above minimum wage at first, until skill sets increased as I learned. Made up to $9 an hour in masonry in 1979 by age 21 and thought I was living large. But laid off, and re-thought my career path. Started over, making barely $5 an hr doing tape-ups for PCB designers artworks with my high school/community college art and mechanical drawing skills (before CAD, it was actually manual artwork), and learned my way up from there to today. All those jobs I was lucky to get only because I knew someone inside already, other than the PCB tape-up job which was from an ad in the Easy Reader (South Bay boyz know this one)

I was far from a protected, sheltered, spoiled silver spoon in mouth kid like most living near the beach (like many here today). We were living near poor standards compared to most of my surf buddies from more well heeled families. Dad was a disabled WWII vet working as a janitor at Redondo Post Office. Mom was the main breadwinner as a social worker (welfare eligibility worker) for LA county in San Pedro. They struggled to keep us well fed some years. We shopped at Salvation Army for clothes. Eating out once or twice a month was a luxury and treasured, even if it was just Bob's Big Boy. Vacations were rare other than Boy Scout camp trips. We did have a nice high end campground membership up in the mountains near Idyllwild that I inherited from mom and dad. That was our vacations in our teen years. Surfing was my escape.

Don't try to pin me as some elite with no apathy for economic struggle.
 
Last edited:

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,226
22,978
113
62
Vagina Point
You think these people in the $16-25 an hour range will be stoked that they only make a few bucks more a hour than a burger flipper with little to no skills?
Who would even think that way?

Do you think of what other people make and that influences the work you do?

Full timers at my work make double my salary.

Who cares?

I'm helping the state of Ca control spending.
 

enframed

Tom Curren status
Apr 11, 2006
11,639
6,431
113
Del Boca Vista, Phase III
Don't try to pin me as some elite with no apathy for economic struggle.
I didn't suggest you are elite, just you are acting petty.

Why do you think any skilled worked making $X would give a fcuk about a burger flipper making $X-2? or $X-4? Given the choice of doing almost anything for more money than what fast food pays, I'd take the other thing. I doubt I'm the only one. Danger levels all close to equal of course...

Empathy bad, compassion good, so say the erBB.
 
Last edited:

kidfury

Duke status
Oct 14, 2017
24,647
10,479
113
Surfdodge - constant state of cognitive dissonance. His mother supported the family via welfare, and he wants to pull up the ladder. Kiss up, kick down.