hey patrolman gain some weight and grow a power belly. u need some girth there to stabilize ur back
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10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)
- Thread starter VonMeister
- Start date
Blueandgreen specifically said he did "flexion exercises." I'd just like to know what they were. You extoll the virtues of the deadlift and the squat in part because they work a full range of motion, but there is about 15-20 degrees (maybe less for you) of back motion that is being neglected/avoided- the back in flexion.
Here are a few examples of "...as unathletic of a position you can be in."
That's a few world titles.
I understand that the lifts work the muscles that contribute to stability in these positions. At the same time wouldn't you correct a trainee who flexes their back that much during the lift? Especially Mick?
You mention that in flexion you use abdominal pressure. So you have to consciously keep that on? Someone suggested I keep my core tight when I do my pop ups, but when I surf I am totally "unconscious." I can't think at all. For example, before a session or even before a takeoff I'll think "I got to try and blow the tail" or "I should work on lay backs." But once I start paddling I'm on automatic.
Also I can't help but notice that extreme valgus position of the back leg in all three photos...
I think you're overthinking this.
When we strength train we do it under load using external resistance. Of course you want to limit shearing forces on the spine during this type of training. When you do this you strengthen these same muscles and they are better able to protect the spine. Just because this is a good practice doesn't mean that using the full range of motion of the spine is unhealthy or dangerous...but at the same time tucking down for a tube isn't athletic either...it's a function of necessity for the situation and offset by pushing the hips back and having the strength to hold that position while also controlling a surfboard for as long as necessary.
Without a lifting belt you create abdominal pressure by tightening every muscle in the core and trunk and by holding a deep breath. When lifting with a belt you do the same but instead use those same muscles to flex against a very tight belt. You create much more pressure with a belt which is why you can lift more weight using one.
There's nothing extreme about any of their positions.
When we strength train we do it under load using external resistance. Of course you want to limit shearing forces on the spine during this type of training. When you do this you strengthen these same muscles and they are better able to protect the spine. Just because this is a good practice doesn't mean that using the full range of motion of the spine is unhealthy or dangerous...but at the same time tucking down for a tube isn't athletic either...it's a function of necessity for the situation and offset by pushing the hips back and having the strength to hold that position while also controlling a surfboard for as long as necessary.
Without a lifting belt you create abdominal pressure by tightening every muscle in the core and trunk and by holding a deep breath. When lifting with a belt you do the same but instead use those same muscles to flex against a very tight belt. You create much more pressure with a belt which is why you can lift more weight using one.
There's nothing extreme about any of their positions.
And remember everyone, VM is the absolute AUTHORITAH on ANYTHING extreme!
This line leapt out at me and gets the thumbs up from me - it is very important to keep abdominal pressure as you call it during say a squat. The spinal column needs to be kept supported firmly during heavy lifts - regardless of whether it is in say slight flexion, extension or straight. What you call abdominal pressure I call a tense core, muscles to rear, front and sides of lower torso tight. When I used to barbell squat and deadlift I used to treat the weight belt as a reminder to keep a tight core during the lift. If I could feel my stomach pressing against the belt then I knew I was in tension all round. I am the erBB weakling so if people want to tell me this was a poor way of doing it I am fine with that!
This idea of a tense core extends into other activities, my chiro told me to keep a tight core during say a 180 rotational trick - I don't necessarily expect people to believe me whether that is good or practical advice or not for someone who wants to skate with a dodgy back. However, that is what I do, so reporting it on this thread.
Aha! So, if I believe my injury was a result of repeatedly being in the hunched over position (my original back problems started after a 3 day tube fest of 3 hour sessions), should I also train with some degree of flexion?
I don't believe anyone on this thread is qualified to say whether you can safely train flexion or not, only a qualified medical practitioner could say that and they would have needed to examine you first and get an understanding of your particular condition. By qualified practitioner I mean someone who specialises in back problems such as chiro, osteo, physio.
If say you were to hypothetically train with flexion or extension or straight back (front squats and even overhead presses seem to encourage extension) then regardless of one way or another the core should be kept super tight during the full motions of the lift to protect the back.
I think you do random exercises and will see random results. I don't recommend a novice or inexperienced lifter do anything under load without proper coaching.
I'm more qualified than any of your "specialists" that made up ailments in order to treat them. Your posts are entertaining though so carry on.
You got in a major car accident (probably because you are stupid).And remember everyone, VM is the absolute AUTHORITAH on ANYTHING extreme!
Do you still go to the magic vibrating mountain top and receive your vibrator healings?
How's your credit score?
Chiros are quacks. Many osteos and physios use techniques based on outdated science. @VonMeister and I are giving you advice on the latest science we've learned to solve our own problems. Finding practitioners who use the latest science is difficult.
You can't lift anything heavy without taking a big breath and bracing your spine. I can tell you can't lift anything heavy.
I actually don't care.
Is this something I can do with deadlifts? Or does it involve copious amounts of beer?
Uh, don't try that at home.
llilibel03 - The flexion stuff I started with was super basic. Lay on your back and gently pull your knees toward your stomach. Set of 10, don't force it. Walk around. How do you feel? Increased symptoms? What's the severity? Do 10 pressups to counterbalance with extension.
Now try this if you tolerated the above ok: sit down with your feet planted. Slowly bend forward toward the floor. As far as you can go, then sit back up. Repeat 10 times. Walk around and assess. If you can do this, the next step is ........ a deadlift! Go slow. No weight. Focus on form (no hyperextension and knee angle doesn't change). How does that feel? etc... Next step would be to add a 10lbs kettle bell. Always do 5-10 and assess. Always follow with extension. Each increase in difficulty/force, you do for a week. If you are improving each week (with maybe a couple bad/recovery days thrown in), you add more.
By the time you can Jefferson curl or deadlift with a bar and weights, you are many months if not years from where you are now.
llilibel03 - The flexion stuff I started with was super basic. Lay on your back and gently pull your knees toward your stomach. Set of 10, don't force it. Walk around. How do you feel? Increased symptoms? What's the severity? Do 10 pressups to counterbalance with extension.
Now try this if you tolerated the above ok: sit down with your feet planted. Slowly bend forward toward the floor. As far as you can go, then sit back up. Repeat 10 times. Walk around and assess. If you can do this, the next step is ........ a deadlift! Go slow. No weight. Focus on form (no hyperextension and knee angle doesn't change). How does that feel? etc... Next step would be to add a 10lbs kettle bell. Always do 5-10 and assess. Always follow with extension. Each increase in difficulty/force, you do for a week. If you are improving each week (with maybe a couple bad/recovery days thrown in), you add more.
By the time you can Jefferson curl or deadlift with a bar and weights, you are many months if not years from where you are now.
I have kicked off some robust discussion here, which is good. You are right I can't lift anything heavy, because as I have stated am not strong.
However I have a question and I am listening. So what I call a heavy lift (relative to my strength) would be some sort of deadlift or squat, or even overhead press. are you saying that breathing precludes bracing the spine during such a move? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, but I can't lift heavy. Also are you saying it is not necessary to brace the spine throughout such a lift, just some of it?
I'm saying that if you do a squat, you will automatically take a big breath and brace your spine without thinking about it.