Done with Xcel. Need a new warm hooded 5/4

Northern_Shores

Miki Dora status
Mar 30, 2009
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Smoothskin is warmer and provides protection from wind.

I'm sorry you're buying shitty suits and having problems with ripping and cracking.
Since when did a Mexican become a guru of the colderness? If I need advice on crossing rivers at night I will ask the Taco-man.
And speaking of ripping and cracking, the water is going under 5°C here and my ass is so cold even George Michael would have a hard time getting it warm!! :monkey:
 

SeaFoamGreen

Gerry Lopez status
Apr 10, 2009
1,250
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NorOR
Haven't had or noticed much of an issue since going with a no smoothy suit and it's often pretty windy around here. I guess the Hyperfreak does have an extra .5 of prene than the straight 5 mills I have always worn. My 4 mill Hyperfreak is surprisingly warm and has got me thinking a 4 mill Psycotech might work all the time.
 

casa_mugrienta

Duke status
Apr 13, 2008
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Petak Island
There was research by kitesurfers done on warmth smoothie vs regular neoprene. Smoothie won out in a major way. I posted the research previously but due to the lack of archive here I can't repost it. Most of the kitesurf wetsuits have a good amount of smoothie specifically because it cuts the wind and evaporative cooling.

It's funny talking to noobs or younger guys who finally get a suit with smoothie rubber after never having had one in years of surfing - Always the same comments: so much warmer and cuts the wind + "Oh, and it really gets warm when the sun hits it."

This is simple science.

When your wetsuit becomes wet it immediately becomes prone to evaporative cooling i.e. the wet tshirt effect. Most wetsuits that aren't new start saturating as soon as they're in the water. I know everyone thinks their neoprene is awesome (YAMAMOTOTOWOTOW!) but I see very few suits looking dry and beading up 30 minutes into the session...so evaporative cooling is taking place, especially the longer your session goes...making you colder.

Smoothie eliminates the evaporative cooling effect by a huge margin. It repels water and blocks wind to a large degree.

Most wetsuit companies don't want you to have smoothie because they're not in the business of keeping you warm, they're in the business of keeping you buying their shitty suits. All this bullshit "new tech" is just that - marketing bullshit. Same with the recycled eco-friendly ingredients crap. A good wetsuit is toxic, not enviro-friendly.

There's a reason why Japanese companies like BeWet make a lot of the wetsuits for the pro guys who ride for the shitty off the rack big brands. Better glues, better stitching, better neoprene, better wetsuit.
 
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Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
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Jacksonville Beach
From the "My xcels are a couple years older and I like them" camp...

I have a 3/2 comp, a 3/2 infiniti, and a 3/2 drylock. The comp's a year older than the other two.

I'm with casa_mugrienta. The smoothskin catches sun and deals with wind better. It's 55-56 here and I can't wear the comp and booties, but I'm fine with the other two and booties. 58-59 and I'll wear the comp unless it's some combo of lully/windy/cold. These were all online discount purchases so I'm not sure if both the smoothies were a bit bricky, but the mobility/flex in the comp feels baller.
 
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daave

Gerry Lopez status
Dec 28, 2002
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One thing about the smoothy Japanese suits. They will last a while (as in perform well) but you have to take care of it. Most surfers stomp their suits into cement when they get changed. Wouldn't recommend that. It's not a big deal but you need to take about 30sec or a min longer with changing.
 

SeaFoamGreen

Gerry Lopez status
Apr 10, 2009
1,250
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NorOR
Smoothie def has it bennies and off course those wind johnnies in this said research study got cold. Their in the direct brunt of the wind, while we're are trying to hide from it. I think the comp suits just work well around here (OR) because the water temps are in the higher end of the stated range for most 5s. Some of the people I surf with are rocking 4s these days. In fact a local shop started making their own suits with Japanese rubber and no smooth skin. If the water and air were colder I'd prob opt for a suit with smoothie, but as of now I don't miss it and notice a bit more flexibility and no worries about the extra seams pulling apart.
 
Jul 4, 2006
52
51
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New England
Regarding smoothy, I think the most anyone can do is speak from personal experience. My personal experience is that on two consecutive drylock 5/4's, the smoothy seemed to work well, but was also the weakest part of the suit. Both of those suits started failing because at least xcel glues those panels in place, so once the glue starts to fail, you end up with separating seams.

I'm surfing in New England, so I'm dealing with 38-42 degree water in the winter and typically surfing during or post-storms with wind and air as low as 15-20 degrees (some people go out when its colder, thats about where I draw the line). My Feral 6/5/4 with no smoothy has worked just as good, if not better, in cold and windy weather this winter. There was at least one session where I was out and with the wind chill it was between 0-10 degrees Fahrenheit and I was out for at least 2 hours.

Maybe smoothy is more critical on suits <5mm or 6mm, maybe the xcel smoothy being so vulnerable isn't replicated on other suits (though as mentioned above, the Japanese Neoprene smoothy is very susceptible to fingernail nicks and such). Maybe a yamamoto suit with smoothy would be even warmer (I know there are some on the market that include it). I don't know, I used to think it was super important, but I've been fine without it.
 

Sharkbiscuit

Duke status
Aug 6, 2003
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Jacksonville Beach
For me the smoothie zone if anything goes wrong is an easy repair that I normally do once.

The groin/hips is where I get leaks in my wetsuits and where I have to roofing seal that sh!t the most.
 

rgruber

Miki Dora status
May 30, 2004
3,617
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Not to defend Xcel since I started this thread declaring I was over them but my 5 mil and 4 mil Xcel Drylocks tend to fail in the seams and at wrists and ankles rather than on the smoothskin. Haven't had any issues with rips or tears or seperation. They just leak elsewhere.

I'm pretty sold on the 5/4 Psychotech or Feral 6/5/4 whenever I can get my hands on one, probably next year.
 
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jkb

Tom Curren status
Feb 22, 2005
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Central California
Regarding smoothy, I think the most anyone can do is speak from personal experience. My personal experience is that on two consecutive drylock 5/4's, the smoothy seemed to work well, but was also the weakest part of the suit. Both of those suits started failing because at least xcel glues those panels in place, so once the glue starts to fail, you end up with separating seams.

I'm surfing in New England, so I'm dealing with 38-42 degree water in the winter and typically surfing during or post-storms with wind and air as low as 15-20 degrees (some people go out when its colder, thats about where I draw the line). My Feral 6/5/4 with no smoothy has worked just as good, if not better, in cold and windy weather this winter. There was at least one session where I was out and with the wind chill it was between 0-10 degrees Fahrenheit and I was out for at least 2 hours.

Maybe smoothy is more critical on suits <5mm or 6mm, maybe the xcel smoothy being so vulnerable isn't replicated on other suits (though as mentioned above, the Japanese Neoprene smoothy is very susceptible to fingernail nicks and such). Maybe a yamamoto suit with smoothy would be even warmer (I know there are some on the market that include it). I don't know, I used to think it was super important, but I've been fine without it.
Not really fair to compare a 6/5 with a 5/4 though. Take durability out of the equation for a minute.......do you think a 5/4 Feral would be as warm as your 5/4 Xcel?
 
Jul 4, 2006
52
51
18
New England
Not really fair to compare a 6/5 with a 5/4 though. Take durability out of the equation for a minute.......do you think a 5/4 Feral would be as warm as your 5/4 Xcel?
That's a fair point. I think the warmth between both 5/4's would probably be similar, maybe a slight edge to the feral suit but total speculation. I was out on xcel moreso due to my last version of the suit being very prone to flushing around the chest zip, which they may or may not have fixed since.

I can say, the Feral suit is just as flexible and there's no noticable difference in bulk. The drying time is really remarkable on the feral suit, that was a huge surprise and a plus, climbing into a cold and wet suit when it's still dark out and freezing is enough to get me to pass if the surf isn't pumping.

I wish I had gone back to a 6/5/4 sooner. You can definitely get away with a 5/4 even in 40 degree water, but without question I've never been more comfortable in the water than I have been this winter, and it's absolutely increased my time in the water.
 

bobwarren

Nep status
Feb 24, 2016
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Neptune Beach FL
From the "My xcels are a couple years older and I like them" camp...

I have a 3/2 comp, a 3/2 infiniti, and a 3/2 drylock. The comp's a year older than the other two.

I'm with casa_mugrienta. The smoothskin catches sun and deals with wind better. It's 55-56 here and I can't wear the comp and booties, but I'm fine with the other two and booties. 58-59 and I'll wear the comp unless it's some combo of lully/windy/cold. These were all online discount purchases so I'm not sure if both the smoothies were a bit bricky, but the mobility/flex in the comp feels baller.

Doing just fine in a 3/2 Xcel lower end suit (Axis X) with smoothskin this year. No booties. My feet have gotten cold after an hour a couple times but other than that I have been toasty. The amount of 4/3s with boots and gloves (sometimes hoods!!?) I'm seeing is concerning. I get cold easily too.

The smoothskin helps a lot. Never had any durability problems with the smoothie part either.
 
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Northern_Shores

Miki Dora status
Mar 30, 2009
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Guarantee you that's not the case.
This is my Xcel suit after not even one full season of use. Next season is not happening for this POS suit. The seams around the cock and ass area are so leaky I might as well just surf in my Speedos.

1614011882138.png
 
Last edited:
Jul 4, 2006
52
51
18
New England
This is my Xcel suit after not even one full season of use. Next season is not happening for this POS suit. The seams around the cock and ass area are so leaky I might as well just surf in my Speedos.

View attachment 105494
100% the same issue I had with my xcel suits where the smoothie panels are in the suit; happening on my 1.5 year old drylock in 5-6 places which have all been mended with aquaseal but its just literally plugging holes until the suit sinks.