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Durham gets the first Russiagate conviction – Ex-Justice Department lawyer Kevin Clinesmith

S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,552
23,130
113
for the record, I understand Surfdog's position and am open to eating crow
if my understanding is incorrect, but I was specific up front to eliminate
ambiguities...

maybe we play it for
Surfdog said:
And to back up the "guilty plea" being the same as a "conviction", here's some links to actual lawyers take on the question.....

https://www.lawyers.com/ask-a-lawyer/criminal/is-there-a-difference-between-a-court-conviction-and-a-guilty-plea-1567745.html#:~:text=A plea of guilty results,found guilty after a trial.&text=A sentence of supervision means,not count as a conviction.

It seems a few lawyers may differ, but a vast majority claim it's the same thing. No difference.
Click to expand...

you're misreading it

entering a plea is not a conviction

the case has not been adjudicated

the differentiation made in the article is guilt by plea vs guilt by trial...both can yield convictions

if you read the full set of responses you can see that "conviction" is dependent upon whether
or not the judge entered a judgement of conviction upon receipt of the plea (or in any court
process subsequent to that but before EOM September)

has a judgement of conviction been entered for Clinesmith?
 
S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
Not sure? But sentencing is supposed to be Dec. 10, and that was set back in Aug 19. So it sounds like a done deal to me?

So, as far as guilty pleas are concerned, how is this any different than Popadopoulos and Flynn when it comes to guilty pleas and their convictions at the time?
 
afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,552
23,130
113
Surfdog said:
Not sure? But sentencing is supposed to be Dec. 10, and that was set back in Aug 19. So it sounds like a done deal to me?

So, as far as guilty pleas are concerned, how is this any different than Popadopoulos and Flynn when it comes to guilty pleas and their convictions at the time?
Click to expand...
you either don't read or you are being willfully obtuse

the bet was based on a conviction

there is no conviction

a plea has been entered

that is not the same thing

if you can point to something that indicates that the judge entered a judgement of conviction
when the plea was entered, you win the bet.

typically, however, based on my conversations with two separate lawyers, a plea is not in and
unto itself a conviction. a judge can, as mentioned, reject a plea.

it's weird how I insisted on very specific language to remove any ambiguity from the wager,
but you're hear attempting to redefine legal terms.
 
afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,552
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further, the spirit of the bet was that Durham was going to find wrongdoing

this fkn guy is getting railroaded on a bullshit procedural and has not been
proven to be operating in bad faith or to be part of a larger conspiracy

this guy is going to loose his ability to practice law because of an assumption
and poor revision tracking on a document.
 
S

Surfdog

Duke status
Apr 22, 2001
21,768
1,988
113
South coast OR
"After inquiring about whether Clinesmith understood the rights he was giving up by pleading guilty and whether he understood that the maximum possible sentence in the case is five years in prison, Boasberg accepted the plea and set sentencing for Dec. 10. "

"Scarpelli said the government was not asking that Clinesmith be detained pending sentencing, but they did get the judge to order that Clinesmith surrender his passport and get prior approval for domestic travel outside specified states."

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/19/former-fbi-attorney-pleads-guilty-durham-398605

I'd say that's pretty much adjudication, on Aug. 19.

Adjudication: The ability to automate a judgment based on background screening outcome. This judgment often results in “meets requirements” or “does not meet requirements” outcome. Once adjudication takes place automatic distribution and/or adverse action can occur.

Adjudicated Guilty – Conviction: The defendant has been found guilty of the charges.

Adjudication Withheld – Non-conviction: The court does not give a final judgment regarding the case. The defendant is given probation, a program or community service for which they have a specified amount of time to complete. If the defendant complies, the case may be dismissed, depending on the county/state. If they do not dismiss in that particular county/state, then the disposition remains adjudication withheld and the case is closed. However, if the defendant is found in violation, the case disposition may be changed and the defendant can be found guilty.
 
W

Why_was_I_banned

Billy Hamilton status
Sep 5, 2020
1,388
775
113
Funny how Surfdog, the biggest troll, doesn't realize that Afoaf is trolling him.

Let's bet that he doesn't get it until after the election
 
afoaf

afoaf

Duke status
Jun 25, 2008
49,552
23,130
113
he still hasn't demonstrated that this guy was convicted

holy sh!t

he handed over his passport?!

ahahahaha

jesus, I don't know how much more clear it can be....
 
Autoprax

Autoprax

Duke status
Jan 24, 2011
68,542
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62
Vagina Point
potato-nator said:
think of all the dummies that got hurt or worse in the riots.
Click to expand...
false analogy?

You expect criminals to wreck sh!t. That is why they are criminals.

I say throw them in jail if they committed a crime.


The president is supposed to countering that chaos.

Trump could have totally defused that unrest but instead he stirred it up.

He's still doing it.
 
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