10 Myths About Lower Back Pain (LBP)

[VonMeister]

The best way to get stronger is buy lifting the most weight possible over the longest range of motion. Anything other than a low bar back squat is going to reduce range of motion or put the body in a position that would not allow a person to access the range of motion or the resistance they could otherwise use. Making submaximal resistance feel tough or heavy is just putting your body in a position to underachieve, which is the opposite of effective training.

Asymmetric loading puts your body in a compromised position, which makes it operationally weaker, reduces overall stress on the target muscles, and increases chances of an injury. A symmetrical squat will stress every muscle that makes up your "core" far beyond what you can do by loading it asymmetrically because you will have a solid base and will be stressing these muscles with much more weight.

Something is always better than nothing. Lots better, so do what you can with what you have. If all I has access to was a set of dumbbells I would increase rep ranges to allow me to accumulate the same stress as if I were working with a heavy barbell...the only difference being is I wouldn't gain the experience in working with a barbell or a heavy low rep stressors.

 

[scdad]

Just to share, GBG shared with me his stretching program. I asked him about it because although I wasn't injured, my back was tight, and I felt like it could go out if I moved wrong. And, yes, I follow the erBB Rx for doin DL, and squats and heavy weights, and I work on my mobility and flexibility regularly. I figured, why not try something new and see if it helps. After giving it a go every day for a little over 2 weeks, I can say it has helped me. The back is feeling a lot less tight, and it seems to take me less time to get it warmed up and ready to go for my gym, surf, and swim sessions. So I'm stoked that I asked him for it and he shared.

So if you're not actually injured, and just in pain, maybe it will help you just to keep the muscles in a moving pattern more and letting the nervous system get comfortable when muscles are elongated.

Just 2 more cents to the erBB kitty

 

[One-Off]

These guys are from the VM school.

 

[Mr J]

These guys are from the VM school.
… .

yup.

Re the first chap, I don't has far as I know have bone spurs in my vertebrae - it wasn't mentioned after the x-ray. Would they show in just an x-ray? My discs weren't thinning in lower back either, although there was some thinning in my neck - which I don't stretch and try and help with posture. I do some lower back mobility exercises which were prescribed and which I expect he wouldn't agree with. I do accept his point though, my back might be doing well for my age, but 58 is not 21.

I agree with him about sit ups - they feel bad for me, I have not been prescribed them and I don't do them.

Re the second chap. He raises the awkward question of why did his back go ping while weightlifting? He is lifting impressive loads, so why didn't the strength he gained from that protect his back?

Another point is that his account is just an anecdote. Although anecdotes can be true and interesting personal accounts they are absolutely useless to base any medical decision on.

 

[VonMeister]

He was deadlifting 315 in a warm up set and because his max is over 600, wasn't paying close attention to form, which is a common issue with things your good at. Like, how you drive today compared to when you were just learning.

There's also a difference between being string and being a competitive strong man competitor. He is working with weights and stress that wouldn't be recommended for a person who was just trying to be healthy and live a long active life. When you start getting into the advanced fringes of of any sport the risk of injury goes up. Why did Bede shatter his hip at pipeline? Why do watermen drown?

The takeaway is the reaction to a pain input that anyone who has suffered from back pain has felt...the severe pain that can only mean you are on the verge of paralysis. It's a legitimate emotional response to an event that leaves you helpless and unable to do rudimentary activities like stand up or walk. BUT the gut reaction has been proven to be wrong. Activity and neuromuscular activation is the cure. It gets the soft tissue moving and healing and lets the mind know that this is a completely natural and normal event and to incremental move through it by increasing range of motion and stress through the joint. Doing it another way, like laying there and having a person move you through range of motion or manually stretch body parts doesn't work as well because you've removed the most important function of healing...the neuro part.

 

[Mr J]

...
I've got an appointment with the PT office next Monday. I asked to see someone specialized in weight training but the receptionist said they don't specialize.
..

How did things go with the PT?

 

[One-Off]

How did things go with the PT?

I basically got a massage. They told me to do exercises I was already doing. Said to wait another month before surfing.

 

[Mr J]

I basically got a massage. They told me to do exercises I was already doing. Said to wait another month before surfing.

did the massage find any muscle knots (trigger points)? I assume it wasn't an incense, fragrant oils and calming music type session. A month out of the water isn't so bad if you feel you are getting a stronger core from the exercises.

 

[gbg]

Just to share, GBG shared with me his stretching program. I asked him about it because although I wasn't injured, my back was tight, and I felt like it could go out if I moved wrong. And, yes, I follow the erBB Rx for doin DL, and squats and heavy weights, and I work on my mobility and flexibility regularly. I figured, why not try something new and see if it helps. After giving it a go every day for a little over 2 weeks, I can say it has helped me. The back is feeling a lot less tight, and it seems to take me less time to get it warmed up and ready to go for my gym, surf, and swim sessions. So I'm stoked that I asked him for it and he shared.

So if you're not actually injured, and just in pain, maybe it will help you just to keep the muscles in a moving pattern more and letting the nervous system get comfortable when muscles are elongated.

Just 2 more cents to the erBB kitty

Happy this has helped. Its a big time commitment but worth it.

 

[VonMeister]

did the massage find any muscle knots (trigger points)? I assume it wasn't an incense, fragrant oils and calming music type session. A month out of the water isn't so bad if you feel you are getting a stronger core from the exercises.

There's no such thing as trigger points, adhesions etc.

 

[surfbum00]

There's no such thing as trigger points, adhesions etc.

There is a lot of evidence saying there is...

 

[One-Off]

did the massage find any muscle knots (trigger points)? I assume it wasn't an incense, fragrant oils and calming music type session. A month out of the water isn't so bad if you feel you are getting a stronger core from the exercises.

I think erector spinae, the long muscles going vertically up the side of the spine- the right side was much more tense and hard and even I could feel it protruded more than the left side, so the PT dug into that muscle hard. He told me to mimic that with a tennis ball at home, which I did that evening.

I don't know if it was the massaging, but the day after (yesterday) my back was really sore again. Like, fuk me, three steps backwards. Even today, left side, above and under hip bone still really sore. It hurts when I bend over (like gbg self suck stretch, which I've also been doing). Glutes? Sacrioliac? I have been doing a lot of squats, unweighted and with 10lb dumbbells.

One thing the PT's (there were two, one was probably a supervisor/teacher) prescribed which I had not come across, either googling or in this thread, was the knee lift. They noted that the pop up involves pulling your legs up under your torso. So they recommended, first do burpees one leg at a time since I told them I'm not ready to do them both legs. And then a knee lift with a resistance band. All the squats and deadlifts (when I eventually get to them) involve pushing with the legs, not pulling them up to the chest.

The knee to chest stretch is also the one that feels the best right now...

Discuss.

 

[Havoc]

u wud be surfing already if u took vms advice over a month ago

 

[gbg]

I think erector spinae, the long muscles going vertically up the side of the spine- the right side was much more tense and hard and even I could feel it protruded more than the left side, so the PT dug into that muscle hard. He told me to mimic that with a tennis ball at home, which I did that evening.

I don't know if it was the massaging, but the day after (yesterday) my back was really sore again. Like, fuk me, three steps backwards. Even today, left side, above and under hip bone still really sore. It hurts when I bend over (like gbg self suck stretch, which I've also been doing). Glutes? Sacrioliac? I have been doing a lot of squats, unweighted and with 10lb dumbbells.

One thing the PT's (there were two, one was probably a supervisor/teacher) prescribed which I had not come across, either googling or in this thread, was the knee lift. They noted that the pop up involves pulling your legs up under your torso. So they recommended, first do burpees one leg at a time since I told them I'm not ready to do them both legs. And then a knee lift with a resistance band. All the squats and deadlifts (when I eventually get to them) involve pushing with the legs, not pulling them up to the chest.

The knee to chest stretch is also the one that feels the best right now...

Discuss.

Sounds like you have a good PT and he told you many of the same things I told you a month ago.

 

[One-Off]

u wud be surfing already if u took vms advice over a month ago

I took VM's advice- being active, working my way up. Starting with body weight, slowly adding weight. No I'm not squatting my body weight yet. Starting incrementally. I'm doing more than what the MD and PT practitioner's have told me, which was not to lift any weights until the pain was gone ...

With regards the lower back, is there any difference in the results of deadlifting and squats? I can see how there is a difference in what happens to the upper back and shoulders, but the lower back?

As I've gotten better the pain has localized- left side, over and under the hip bone.

 

[Mr J]

There's no such thing as trigger points, adhesions etc.

I call them muscle knots, because that's what it feels like to me. The masseurs call them trigger points, although at least one has mentioned the term myofascial release. Whatever the terminology they are clearly tangible tome and feel tender under manual pressure compared to the surrounding muscle area. So although you aren't going to be able to persuade me I am imagining them, I am aware that there contradicting studies that indicate massage is unhelpful and also those that indicate it helps.

You are well placed to assess the merits of one study vs another, so I am interested in hearing why you believe massage to be bad or unhelpful.

 

[Mr J]

I think erector spinae, the long muscles going vertically up the side of the spine- the right side was much more tense and hard and even I could feel it protruded more than the left side, so the PT dug into that muscle hard...
...
The knee to chest stretch is also the one that feels the best right now...

Discuss.

I can compare notes. It sounds like you did get a deep tissue massage (that term has been used at the clinic I go to every 3 weeks). So did it feel almost painful when the PT dug in? Did the PT maintain the manual pressure for something like 30 seconds or more and was there a feeling that the tense muscle eventually gave way and softened a bit? Because that's the feeling I get, although I've been getting this treatment a long time now and I have learned to relax with the knowledge that although it might leave me a bit sore the next day its not going to damage me. Its also hard to be truly objective, but my feeling is that the next day there is less of a tension/knot even if there is a little soreness.

The idea is that a muscle in spasm/tense is not operating correctly, other related muscles need to compensate and therefore the body isn't operating the way it is supposed to. So by releasing the tension the body is more likely to move properly rather than build up imbalances. I'm just being the messenger here, I don't claim ownership of the truth.

As mentioned before I am do not have the skills and background to evaluate studies of the merits or otherwise of therapies, but I do place value in practitioners who have years of experience in fixing people and also my personal experiences as a patient. I think the massage helps.

The knee to chest stretch you mention - is that done lying on the back and holding the shin with the hands? I have been prescribed that one. Not an extreme stretch in any way, no body weight load leaning forward or anything, feels safe. I still do that although not as regularly as 2 other exercise which also feel low risk and prescribed when I was in that delicate state. I continue to do them because my feeling is that they have been good for me, although I can't know for sure.

You have to do what you think is best for you, but I would not be doing anything that the PT says you shouldn't or not approved and that includes squats and the stretch that gbg does, you might set yourself back - you saw how the strongman tweaked his back with a warm up load. I like the gbg stretch and thinking about introducing some squat variation training, but I'm not in that delicate state any more.

 

[gbg]

I call them muscle knots, because that's what it feels like to me. The masseurs call them trigger points, although at least one has mentioned the term myofascial release. Whatever the terminology they are clearly tangible tome and feel tender under manual pressure compared to the surrounding muscle area. So although you aren't going to be able to persuade me I am imagining them, I am aware that there contradicting studies that indicate massage is unhelpful and also those that indicate it helps.

You are well placed to assess the merits of one study vs another, so I am interested in hearing why you believe massage to be bad or unhelpful.

VM is a know it all who knows nothing.

 

[One-Off]

VM is a know it all who knows nothing.

It's not necessary to dismiss him like that just because you have something different that works for you. A lot of the advice he gives has sound research backing it up. I prefer to take a little bit from everyone and, like Mr. J says, see what works. The stretch you recommended is the one that feels more delicate. I will creep forward with my finger tips but at a certain point I will feel a twinge in my back. At that pint I back up a bit and then just hold. That stretch also make me realize my hips are not as flexible as they used to be.

Since the injury I've done a 13 mile run no problems, but when I try a burpee or pop up the alarm signals (pain) sound off loudly. Kt's definitely the curved back position that gives me problems.

Mr. J, the PT was digging into the. muscle either with his thumb or knuckle and yeah at times it hurt. At one point the surrounding area started to tingle and I mentioned that to him but he just moved to another area but kept digging in hard.

 

[VonMeister]

There is a lot of evidence saying there is...

Not medical evidence. This is provable science here. Not some sh!t a guy with an online degree in some bullshit therapy or some garbage learned in strip mall college.

Unless there has been a previous surgery at the site which resulted in scar tissue, there is no such thing as a "muscle adhesion". Further, if there was previous surgery and you developed this tissue condition it is 100% impossible to relieve this condition manually and it requires further surgery....if it is decided to be medically necessary.

Trigger points and muscle adhesions are made up terms to sell toys and ebooks to dummies like Gbg.