Yes. And some people are.Autoprax said:
A guy I train with is 45 years old, eats mass quantities of just about anything and is as lean as anyone I’ve ever seen.
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Can we talk about the keto diet?
- Thread starter hal9000
- Start date
A guy I train with is 45 years old, eats mass quantities of just about anything and is as lean as anyone I’ve ever seen.
I convinced myself to try Keto after going down a YouTube wormhole. Lasted two months - fully went through the adaptation period, I was strict. If you aren’t, it isn’t Keto, and if you do it for less than a month, it isn’t Keto either - it’s just suffering as your body doesn’t adapt that fast.
I saw Voleks name come up. Another good one is Dom d’agostino. He’s got like 3-4 joe organ podcasts packed with info.
I’m a slim guy, and wasn’t even trying to lose weight. I was just eating what I considered maintenance. Turns out I regularly eat at a deficit because the pounds dropped. I lost about 20 pounds and weighed the same as I did in high school. And I could see five of my abs - I’ve literally never been able to see more than 3 in my entire life, even when I was like 10. This is without doing crazy ab exercises, just by reducing that layer of fat.
Yea, I’m a believer for purposes of fat reduction of if you just want to shock your system and try something new. I’m really not sure how much of it is legit for long term and I think there are a lot of things people have to be careful of and should do blood work to prevent missing, which I did not.
I was messing with intermittent fasting the whole time as well because it compliments Keto. I started doing longer fasts (just like 1-2 days) and my brain and body were like “fvvvck this” and had like a mini freak out. I came off the diet and still have a distaste for empty carbs. I used to eat massive bowls of pasta but now the sight and smell of bread is repulsive. It’s literally fvcking cardboard and I can’t believe people eat it.
It was good to get a reality check about just how many carbs we eat, and how happy that makes the precancerous cells in our bodies and has increased the nations waist line ever since fat was villanized in the 80’s(?).
This is a good read https://robbwolf.com/2015/09/24/the-origin-and-future-of-the-ketogenic-diet-part-1/
I saw Voleks name come up. Another good one is Dom d’agostino. He’s got like 3-4 joe organ podcasts packed with info.
I’m a slim guy, and wasn’t even trying to lose weight. I was just eating what I considered maintenance. Turns out I regularly eat at a deficit because the pounds dropped. I lost about 20 pounds and weighed the same as I did in high school. And I could see five of my abs - I’ve literally never been able to see more than 3 in my entire life, even when I was like 10. This is without doing crazy ab exercises, just by reducing that layer of fat.
Yea, I’m a believer for purposes of fat reduction of if you just want to shock your system and try something new. I’m really not sure how much of it is legit for long term and I think there are a lot of things people have to be careful of and should do blood work to prevent missing, which I did not.
I was messing with intermittent fasting the whole time as well because it compliments Keto. I started doing longer fasts (just like 1-2 days) and my brain and body were like “fvvvck this” and had like a mini freak out. I came off the diet and still have a distaste for empty carbs. I used to eat massive bowls of pasta but now the sight and smell of bread is repulsive. It’s literally fvcking cardboard and I can’t believe people eat it.
It was good to get a reality check about just how many carbs we eat, and how happy that makes the precancerous cells in our bodies and has increased the nations waist line ever since fat was villanized in the 80’s(?).
This is a good read https://robbwolf.com/2015/09/24/the-origin-and-future-of-the-ketogenic-diet-part-1/
Small sample size, but it is a metabolic ward study, therefore the highest standard. No advantage with ketogenic over high carb, and there was more muscle loss with the keto diet https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/104/2/324/4564649
Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.
Many other high carb vs low carb metabolic ward studies have shown no difference in total weight loss when controlling for total calories.
Controlling total calories is obviously the name of the game, but LCHF diets help to curb calorie cravings because there are less sugar spikes. Obviously replacing things like potatoes with vegetables create great calorie deficits as well.grapedrink said:
LCHF diets work really well for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. I'm not really sure why there is so much hate for them. Probably for the same reason why people hate vegans and probably politically motivated
There's no hate.ifallalot said:
It's when you start mouthing off at people who eat carbs and blame obesity on carbs and claim that endurance athletes don't need carbs and other science denying things you've said in this thread.
Stop preaching.
Ketotards = Vegans = CrossFitards = Jehovah Witnesses
Just don't.
There's more than one way to skin the cat.
If you think eating red meat is the pinnacle of health, go right for it.
But seriously, have you tried DMT?
I don't even know what it means, I just know it's a Joe Rogan meme. :smile2:
I'm pretty sure DMT is not even keto kosher.
I'm pretty sure DMT is not even keto kosher.
My criticism comes from the keto/low carb types who argue that there is some sort of metabolic hack with keto that supercedes caloric intake. They say idiotic straw man tripe like “so 1000 calories of Oreos has the same effect on my health as 1000 calories of salmon and broccoli?!” and that you don’t need to worry about calories. Then some take it a step further and talk about adding tablespoons of butter and coconut oil into your coffee as a weight loss tool. It’s misleading information that does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.ifallalot said:
Talking up the indirect benefits, that I mentioned in my very first post on this thread and the same ones that you also mentioned, is legitimate. All of which lead to less calorie intake.
I do agree that there are politics involved in the LCHF hate. The nutrition pyramid was written by grain and dairy councils, which is how we ended up with idiotic recs like 6-11 servings of grain per day and crappy polyunsaturated fats. All of those federally subsidized excess grain and seed crops need a home. Those same industries are also major contributors to the American heart association and several other health related non-profits.
Just like with everything, the truth is somewhere in the middle
No, we're talking about how the keto diet is dumb and how it's just the new iteration of the paleo craze, it's just a trend, and it will fade into the white noise just like all the others.Duffy said:
One thing that much of the research ignores (Dr. Jeff Volek completely ignored this concept in one of his review papers) is that, while many health problems can be associated with excess carbohydrate consumption, we also live way longer than our ancestors did. It's reasonable to conclude that our food had something to do with our increased lifespan.
Oh. Ok.hal9000 said:
Yeah, any “diet” with a name is dumb.
That’s how I judge them and it’s served me well so far.
All I’m saying is that when I eat a high carb diet I get hungry quicker (and more severely) and end up eating more.
When I eat low carb I have just as much energy, no loss in performance and I eat less and therefore maintain a lighter weight (which actually helps performance in surfing and other stuff).
Even die hard keto kreeps who do endurance races will carb up in the days leading up to a race and during the race itself. It’s the training cycle that gets the keto treatment.
Periodization...
Sanitation/solid waste disposal probably has the biggest impact in human lifespan. Followed by antibiotics and other medical advances.
Grains are certainly the most efficient way to feed a large population. Most of human history would have loved to have an endless supply of cheap calories. Although aside from being able to easily fulfill the caloric intake required for survival, most grains are relatively low in nutritional value.
Bingograpedrink said:
Humans have ate lots and lots of grain for at least 10k years. The spikes in lifespan didn't happen until recently.
The three most important industries for modern civilization are the trash, sewer+water, and electricity.
grapedrink said:
Full disclosure: I'm all for reducing the amount of carbohydrates in the human diet, especially processed carbs and simple sugars. I think we should reduce our consumption of saturated fats, I think we should get enough fiber in our diets, we should eat lean proteins, or plant-derived proteins, and we should eat more vegetables.
I could very well be proven wrong about keto diets, and they could, in the long-run, be proven to have benefits beyond short-term weight loss.
The problem I have with all the keto talk is that people are rushing headlong into a fad that isn't well-studied and lacks information in the scientific literature to support it as a long-term, healthy, sustainable lifestyle. There are several health concerns associated with keto and hopefully biochemistry can provide ample evidence so scientists and doctors can make sound recommendations. Several studies have also concluded that keto isn't a sustainable diet, and the weight-loss benefits diminish over time.
The problem I have with guys like Jeff Volek is that they have too much of a dog in the fight. Volek is an avowed keto supporter, is trying to sell stuff (https://www.virtahealth.com/about/jeffvolek) and seems to have a conclusion in search of a testable hypothesis. It's odd that all of his papers come to the same conclusion, isn't it? He also is a generally healthy person (according to what I've read) who has never suffered any major metabolic disease.
I'm sure I have more to say but I want to read a few more papers first. I'm starting with these:
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/86/2/276/4633078
https://leblognutrition.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/764-full.pdf
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049515003340
Those are all fair points, and I did clarify, in a previous reply, that I'm not against reducing carbohydrate intake, especially processed carbs, and simple sugars.Duffy said: