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Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: SLOsurfer] #790775
02/05/06 06:46 AM
02/05/06 06:46 AM
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I usually try to stay away from SurfTech bashing, as I feel everyone should be free to ride whatever they chose without any kind of backlash. But to all the bashers, would you ride one if you were stranded on a desert island with perfect waves and it was the only board available? Its kind of funny that no one bashes the shapers that have made the plugs for SurfTech, Board Works, etc.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: hmmm] #790776
02/05/06 01:07 PM
02/05/06 01:07 PM
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Quote:

Anyone who can only get six months out of a poly board has a really dumb glassing schedule (like single 4 deck and bottom on a 2.25 inch thick board) or a really bad glasser. Unless we are talking about ultra powerful waves, in which case all bets are off.




my kg fishes are glassed heavy 6, 6x6. but just after a few months of not even moderate use, spider cracks occur on near the fins and under my front foot... this is not exclusive just to kg but all my boards i gotten even ones in hawaii. again just turning hard (bottom and top turns) can really put their toll on the traditional poly boards. seriously i need to pace myself on my boards so i don't break em too fast. i love them btw and they get the royal treatment and would never throw a board out that is not fixable.




I actually I like it when it when the deck wells out under my feet a bit. Sometimes Ill go back and laminate another layer of cloth on the foot wells to reinforce it in the down position. (I usually dont do this until I start getting cracks over the stringer) Keep the board out of hot cars and it cant go for years like that. Admittedly, in small wave every day type surfboards, I have about six boards that I rotate through, which spreads the wear out a bit, but a crushed in deck doesnt mean your surfboard is done. If that was the case, mine would be gone in a matter of days.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: Retropete] #790777
02/05/06 01:14 PM
02/05/06 01:14 PM
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have to maintain strict (by Thai standards) factory conditions and pay rates for their workers.




So, do you think that "Thai standards" are comparable to the standards in the US or Australia? And what is the rate at which they pay their workers per hour? Is that comparable as well?

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: GWS] #790778
02/05/06 01:35 PM
02/05/06 01:35 PM
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San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
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Quote:

Anyone who can only get six months out of a poly board has a really dumb glassing schedule (like single 4 deck and bottom on a 2.25 inch thick board) or a really bad glasser. Unless we are talking about ultra powerful waves, in which case all bets are off. SurfTech included. Ive seen a ton of them snap in big stuff.




My poly boards weren't glassed poorly; I'm just tough on my boards. My third to last poly board snapped when I came down from a botched air on it. I broke a significant portion of the nose off my second to last board when my fins came free on a hard turn and the board swung around and hit my forearm.

And it didn't hit that hard. I was so pissed when that happened.

I can see a poly board lasting a long time for a "conservative" surfer, but that I'm not.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: SLOsurfer] #790779
02/05/06 01:41 PM
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You land a thin board out in the flats, youre going to snap it. You see that one coming you need to ditch the board. The second one sounds like a single four glass job to me. Do you know what your boards were glassed with?

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: foamdust] #790780
02/05/06 01:46 PM
02/05/06 01:46 PM
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Quote:

Its kind of funny that no one bashes the shapers that have made the plugs for SurfTech, Board Works, etc.






That's exactly the source of the problem. Surftech wouldn't exist today nor would we talk about it here every week if Randy French was the only shaper. Nobody would care.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: vespagetti] #790781
02/05/06 01:58 PM
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Quote:

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Its kind of funny that no one bashes the shapers that have made the plugs for SurfTech, Board Works, etc.






That's exactly the source of the problem. Surftech wouldn't exist today nor would we talk about it here every week if Randy French was the only shaper. Nobody would care.




Maybe. It doesnt mean they wouldnt have the same variety of shapes. With a shaping machine and some time and effort, you can get some pretty close unauthorized copies going. I walked through a fairly well known shapers factory recently and noticed he had a whole quiver of brand new Channel Islands boards, sawn into sections. Digitize them and then run it through a shaping machine. Rail templates, on and on. There are no shaping secrets anymore.

I believe Rich Harbour started an association with SurfTech and then pulled the plug after getting a closer look at what he was getting involved in.

And speaking if RH, here is something from his website on denting. I do this with a lot of my boards, but I use less glass. He deals primarily in longboards so he uses more glass.

Heat is probably not the cause of most deck delaminations. The main cause is that fiberglass just does not stretch. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. A dent makes the distance between the edges of that dent greater. As the dent increases in depth so does the distance between the edges of that dent. Repetitive pounding in the dent causes slippage in the bond with the foam. This movement deteriorates that bond and accelerates the separation. The fiberglass, which has little or no elasticity, has no choice but to release from the foam. Deck dents delaminate primarily because of the constant pounding in one spot, and the lack of elasticity of the fiberglass. Failure to reinforce deep dents may result in delaminations.

To reinforce a dent:

Before the dent delaminates, remove the wax and sand the area thoroughly with 60 grit sandpaper, leaving absolutely no shine. Sand about 1 1/2" onto the flats. Using a catalyzed batch of resin, apply 2 layers of 6 oz. glass to the dent. The key to this is to cut the glass so that it just overlaps onto the flats, making sure that the weave direction matches the same direction as the glass when the board was constructed. This technique will make the glass disappear. The object here is not to fill the dent, but to create more strength in the dented area, and to have a new layer of fiberglass that forces the old glass to hold the new shape. Hot coat all of the way to the edges of the sanded area. Do not use any masking tape. Free stroke your brush strokes, feathering at the edges and get out of it quick. Resin has a wonderful way of self leveling if you give it a chance. Sand the area when the resin has kicked off with 60 grit paper. Just blend the edges onto the flats so there is no lump. I finish the sanding with 120 grit paper, wax it and surf. Unless you are going to remove the wax when you eventually sell the board, the only person that will know that it hasn't been glossed and polished is you. This is absolutely the simplest repair, and every surfboard owner should know how to do it.



I've never had a board delam that I have done that to. The weight gain isn't that much, because the extra glass is targeted right to the foot wells on the deck.

Last edited by GWS; 02/05/06 02:10 PM.
Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: GWS] #790782
02/05/06 04:43 PM
02/05/06 04:43 PM
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I was simply saying that the Cobra factory is not a sweatshop. Their wages and extra benefits (ie health plan) are much better than other Thai factories. The factories are well appointed clean and very well run.
I doubt the same can be said of some factories using cheap Mexican labour in your own country.
I do know the cost of living there and its enough to make ends meet. Something I am having real trouble doing for my wife and children since coming back to Australia with high taxation, insurance, housing, vechile, education, food and clothing costs. The beauty of less industrialised countries is they have less to spend money on making for a happier, less stressfull existence.

Last edited by Retropete; 02/05/06 04:55 PM.

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Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: Retropete] #790783
02/05/06 07:31 PM
02/05/06 07:31 PM
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The factories are well appointed clean and very well run.
I doubt the same can be said of some factories using cheap Mexican labour in your own country.





If you are talking about factories within the borders of the US, you would be wrong. If you are talking about US owned factories on the other side of the border, you would be right.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: GWS] #790784
02/05/06 11:23 PM
02/05/06 11:23 PM
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I'm glad to be wrong. As it is I'm no fan of factories of any description. My Lisu hilltribe wife makes handwoven Lisu shoulder bags, handbags and purses and so on which we sell ourselves at local markets. I'm all for keeping it as simple as possible.


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Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: GWS] #790785
02/06/06 01:06 AM
02/06/06 01:06 AM
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I think it's the name like Merrick that sells Tufflite not necessarily the shapes alone. People who buy them know little about design but put trust in a respected shaping name (and trend factor). I think if French was the only shaper on the Tufflite label, Surftech would be of no consequence to the traditional board makers. Just saying.... I know that it's too easy to be judgmental. I'm sure it's very tempting to just sign up with Surftech and wait for the royalty check in the mail every month, especially for smaller shapers. Not many of them can afford to say no to the opportunity like that in the name of principles.

Thanks for the delam prevention info. Today I had a really fun session on my Pavel bonzer which made me even more worried about the numerous spider cracks and stringer that's sticking out. That board doesn't have much foam to give.... and it's only about 8 months old, I surf it something like 15% of the time.

Have you tried doing a full deck patch instead of just individual spots? Would it do the same trick?

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: GWS] #790786
02/06/06 01:10 AM
02/06/06 01:10 AM
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San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
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Quote:

You land a thin board out in the flats, youre going to snap it. You see that one coming you need to ditch the board. The second one sounds like a single four glass job to me. Do you know what your boards were glassed with?




Both of them were double 4 top, single 4 bottom CI boards.

That was awhile ago, and I may have grown better at avoiding my board when I fall...

...but I've never had a poly board last me more than 3-4 months without some sort of major repair. The Santa Cruz that I have right now has been with me for 2 years, with only two major repairs done on it.

The only poly board I had from Roberts had a fin plug snap out (thanks, fcs) and the heel-side rear rail come apart after a few months of surfing. It was double 4 top, single 4 bottom.

The only poly DHD board I had the same problem: heel-side rear rail came apart after two-three months.

The only AST board (Dave Johnson) I've owned had both side fin plug anchors crack and let in water.

All of these poly boards have cracked along the stringer under my front foot, the point of needing repair.

My epoxy has been under my feet for 3-5 days a week for 2+ years, and has yet to get a single pressure dent under either of my feet. I don't use a traction pad.

One repair I had to do on my Santa Cruz was from dropping the thing on a rock while hiking to a certain surf spot. It was minor. That would have been a BUMMER of a ding with a poly board.

The other repair was from when I was trying to make it around a section. The lip landed on my feet, the board popped out from under me, and followed the wave face up until it cracked me in the head. There was hair stuck in the crack, and my head hurt like hell, but it was still a minor repair.

Now given that surfboard record, it would be VEEEEEERY hard for someone to persuade me to go with any material that is less durable than epoxy. I'm OVER pu/pe boards. I just can't afford a new board every few months, and I hate throwing money down the tubes like that. Sure, other people may say otherwise...different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: SLOsurfer] #790787
02/06/06 01:44 AM
02/06/06 01:44 AM
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I dont get it though. Why does everyone freak out about pressure dents? pressure dents aren't shi* to me. Big fuggin deal. You ride a board that is so kooky it has a stringer painted on it

Go look at someones like tfads quiver. reasonbly weighed..glassed super strong with like 5 oz cloth and the things might have 1 pressure dent on them. I guarentee he bags them and takes hella care of them, but it goes to show that polys can last.

sure if u want a fuggin popout to huntington hop on buy 3! Best idea ever!!!

there is no excuse to ride a popout.

gr8day just posted a fukkin sick vacuum bagged fish. Guarentee it's as strong as a surftech..and way better

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: dk] #790788
02/06/06 02:48 AM
02/06/06 02:48 AM
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Quote:

I dont get it though. Why does everyone freak out about pressure dents? pressure dents aren't shi* to me. Big fuggin deal. You ride a board that is so kooky it has a stringer painted on it

Go look at someones like tfads quiver. reasonbly weighed..glassed super strong with like 5 oz cloth and the things might have 1 pressure dent on them. I guarentee he bags them and takes hella care of them, but it goes to show that polys can last.

sure if u want a fuggin popout to huntington hop on buy 3! Best idea ever!!!

there is no excuse to ride a popout.

gr8day just posted a fukkin sick vacuum bagged fish. Guarentee it's as strong as a surftech..and way better




I understand what you're saying. The problem that I had with poly boards wasn't pressure dents. The problem was that those pressure dents would occur under my front foot, and next to the stringer. Before long, the glass on one (or both) sides of the stringer would open up. I wouldn't notice it because it was under my wax, and in a few weeks, it was de-lam, waterlogged board city.

And I like the santa cruz shape I have. It was recommended to me by a guy who reps for NHS (santa cruz is under this brand) and ...Lost. I would see him out there on Santa Cruz boards some days, and ...Lost boards other days. He surfs well.

I love my 6'1" Santa Cruz, and it has needed an average of one fix per year. That's it. End of story. That's enough reason right there (for me) to buy one. I find it hard to argue with that. It turns well, generates a lot of speed, and is a fairly forgiving board. Best of all: NO PRESSURE DINGS. As a result, NO CRACKS. No de-lams. No water-logged board. DK, you're entitled to your own opinion just like I am...you said there is "no excuse" to ride a popout. I say there's "no excuse" not to, if you like the way it surfs and it doesn't fall apart under your feet.

If you don't like the way they surf, then they're not an option for you. Don't buy one. I hardly think you need much convincing, though.

At the time that I bought it, I didn't know that there were durable non-popout alternatives. If I had known that, maybe I wouldn't have bought the Santa Cruz. The fact remains that I like the board, though. Now that I know that there are custom, durable alternatives to poly boards out there, I will probably not buy another popout.

Think about it: before we got clarked, who really knew that there were custom alternative-material boards out there? Those who browse this forum probably did, but when you're an average kid going to school and visiting your local shop every few days, the only options you see is custom poly boards and popouts. After having 5 poly boards fall apart under my feet in 2-3 years, I tried the only alternative I knew of: a Santa Cruz Tuflite. It worked. It still works, two years later. Now that I know of alternatives, I'll get a custom epoxy, probably. I'm sure as hell glad that I bought that Santa Cruz instead of shelling out $1600 for more poly boards to break, though.

Re: Why Everyone Hates Surftech, and Pop-outs in General [Re: SLOsurfer] #790789
02/06/06 01:33 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I dont get it though. Why does everyone freak out about pressure dents? pressure dents aren't shi* to me. Big fuggin deal. You ride a board that is so kooky it has a stringer painted on it

Go look at someones like tfads quiver. reasonbly weighed..glassed super strong with like 5 oz cloth and the things might have 1 pressure dent on them. I guarentee he bags them and takes hella care of them, but it goes to show that polys can last.

sure if u want a fuggin popout to huntington hop on buy 3! Best idea ever!!!

there is no excuse to ride a popout.

gr8day just posted a fukkin sick vacuum bagged fish. Guarentee it's as strong as a surftech..and way better




I understand what you're saying. The problem that I had with poly boards wasn't pressure dents. The problem was that those pressure dents would occur under my front foot, and next to the stringer. Before long, the glass on one (or both) sides of the stringer would open up. I wouldn't notice it because it was under my wax, and in a few weeks, it was de-lam, waterlogged board city.

And I like the santa cruz shape I have. It was recommended to me by a guy who reps for NHS (santa cruz is under this brand) and ...Lost. I would see him out there on Santa Cruz boards some days, and ...Lost boards other days. He surfs well.

I love my 6'1" Santa Cruz, and it has needed an average of one fix per year. That's it. End of story. That's enough reason right there (for me) to buy one. I find it hard to argue with that. It turns well, generates a lot of speed, and is a fairly forgiving board. Best of all: NO PRESSURE DINGS. As a result, NO CRACKS. No de-lams. No water-logged board. DK, you're entitled to your own opinion just like I am...you said there is "no excuse" to ride a popout. I say there's "no excuse" not to, if you like the way it surfs and it doesn't fall apart under your feet.

If you don't like the way they surf, then they're not an option for you. Don't buy one. I hardly think you need much convincing, though.

At the time that I bought it, I didn't know that there were durable non-popout alternatives. If I had known that, maybe I wouldn't have bought the Santa Cruz. The fact remains that I like the board, though. Now that I know that there are custom, durable alternatives to poly boards out there, I will probably not buy another popout.

Think about it: before we got clarked, who really knew that there were custom alternative-material boards out there? Those who browse this forum probably did, but when you're an average kid going to school and visiting your local shop every few days, the only options you see is custom poly boards and popouts. After having 5 poly boards fall apart under my feet in 2-3 years, I tried the only alternative I knew of: a Santa Cruz Tuflite. It worked. It still works, two years later. Now that I know of alternatives, I'll get a custom epoxy, probably. I'm sure as hell glad that I bought that Santa Cruz instead of shelling out $1600 for more poly boards to break, though.




SLOSurfer,
I've made many posts on this fourm trying to convince these guys that Tuflite boards are the way to go. They are just a bunch of old geezers stuck in the 70's with the retro boards. They just don't get it. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

I have a 6'1" CI Flyer that I've been riding on a daily basis for the last 3 1/2 years. I've had one major ding repair but besides that the thing has lost no integrity.

Actually I've found that when you repair Tuflite boards, it's kinda like they never got dinged in the first place. The repairs don't keep craking and needing re-repaired like typical poly board repairs.

I too have decided that I'm over the 1980's poly technology and I will never buy one again. I've since bought 3 more Tuflites to fill up my quiver. 6'3" CI Flyer II, 6'7" Minami mini gun, 6'8" JC Peter Mel. I think I need a 6'5" or 6'6" and a 7'0" to complete my all tuflite quiver.

After that I can buy new boards to try new shapes, and not waste my money trying to keep replacing boards that keep breaking.


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