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Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54684
02/05/03 05:12 AM
02/05/03 05:12 AM
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sb2sb Offline
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Actually you guys are right, but you are missing the key point.

Currently - Cell Phones create overcrowding.

For the last two/three weekends, a certain spot in NB/HB has been the only spot working decently and the number of people on their cell phones calling their friends was unbelievable.

Future - Surflines Cam will transmit TV quality images to your computer, NO JOKE, then everyone will have cams, b/c the information transmitall will be instaneous.

PS - Do whatever you need to do, but Surflines dominance of the Surf Forecast Industry will be complete in a few short years. Only My Opinion

PPS - I hate Cell Phones

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54685
02/04/03 06:04 PM
02/04/03 06:04 PM
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Richard Nixon Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by blakestah:
I don't support Surfline.

I don't support illegal property destruction.

You don't get it. The availability of other resources doesn't matter. The American consumer wants to be spoonfed info. And cams do fill that craving, very well. He doesn't want to read buoy data, or models. Just the facts, ma'am, and let me go surfing.

Consider all the viable subscription models on the internet. So far, the only ones that work (that I am aware of) are surf cams and porn. You will NEVER convince people to stop looking. There is a chance legislation can protect people's privacy, or zoning laws can restrict cams to commercial areas, but only if YOU get involved.

If not, well, it will be a Brave New World

Dude,
I have to ask. Just what is it that you do that you don't want people watching you?

On a side note, destroying property is totally wrong. I still don't think that Surf Cams impact the lineup as much as people think. I don't buy to much of the cell phone deal either. Payphones were available too but while cell phones make for a convience, I don't know if the masses really flock when its pumping due to cell phone usage.

I think its the actual forecasts that do it. My fav was swelldirection when it was working and I've been bummed since the daily stuff stopped but there is still alot of good content there, buoyweather and at lajolla surfing.

I think that if the swell dies off for a week and someone posts that a new swell is moving in a few days, look at the impact of the spot.

Just wondering outloud.

[ February 04, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Richard Nixon ]

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54686
02/04/03 06:07 PM
02/04/03 06:07 PM
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Jacques Chirac Offline
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quote:
Originally posted by Spray92109:

Second thing: get a paintball gun and learn to use it well. Do some target practice regularly. Get some non-soap paint pellets. When you see a camera, shoot the lens with paint. Don't get caught.

Did someone say "GUN"?

We Surrender!

The Nation of France.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54687
02/04/03 06:42 PM
02/04/03 06:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sb2sb:
Actually you guys are right, but you are missing the key point.

Currently - Cell Phones create overcrowding.

PPS - I hate Cell Phones

You are absolutley right on the money in terms of the real technological catalyst for crowds.

Blakestah, I love your website and you give by far the most accurate OB report that I know of but I have to respectfully disagree on the OB cams bringing crowds to those peaks. I check the cams occasionally but primarily to see the texture of the ocean to see if it is worth skipping out on responsibilities for a surf.
As for the whole privacy issue, I really don't have an opinion but I think that Nep has a point that cams of some form are here to stay.

On a semi related note I vaguely recall some cheesy 80s teen movie that showed some surf house in LA. It had all of these surfers passed out by empty beer cans. This house had close circuit tv system hooked up to all the best surf spots in LA. One of the surfers wakes rubs his eyes and sees the surf is firing at all the spots and wakes everyone up with the cliche "surfs up" they all proceed to rush out of the house in a mad fury.

I remember seeing this and thinking no way will that ever happen...and lo and behold we are having this discussion. Anyone else recall that movie???

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54688
02/04/03 06:52 PM
02/04/03 06:52 PM
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blakestah Offline
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Dude,
I have to ask. Just what is it that you do that you don't want people watching you?


That is a common reply to privacy advocates. Like, if you desire any level of privacy, that must mean you have something to hide.

But the basics of human behavior tell us that we act differently in front of different audiences. You become a lot more conscious of your behavior when 10000 people are watching you.

And if surfline spends $40000/mo on cams, they have tens of thousands of people potentially watching you.

When I am at the park, I'd prefer if I could only be seen by people in direct line of sight. Nude sunbathing is legal at Ocean Beach, but will not be practiced if it is broadcast to 10000 people.

Criminals can take advantage of the system. You can literally watch people hide their keys under their bumpers on the Surfline north Ocean Beach cam, because it offers a view of the parking area
(which is small).

There are a plethora of ways your behavior, and the behavior of others, may be changed by broadcasting the beach to tens of thousands of people. And right now, most Surfline cams are unknown to most people being broadcast. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has thought about this even a little doesn't see these points as valid, something to weigh against the potential gain of others in seeing the beach from afar.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54689
02/04/03 07:02 PM
02/04/03 07:02 PM
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San Diego, CA, USA
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Illegal property destruction?

Either the violation of your privacy is wrong, or it's not wrong. Moral comes before legal in a nation that still celebrates its "Boston Tea Party".

You didn't clearly state privacy advocacy as your motivation originally.

But here's the question: how close is too close? There are always satellite shots of the weather, geography, etc., everywhere, available on the Internet but their resolution and frequency are too low for civilians to observe the activity of others.

I agree with you about privacy, but surf cams generally don't provide the sort of resolution that violates the privacy of any individual. Soon, they might, but still, do you have a coherent set of standards you can propose?

And if the marketplace (full of fat lazy consumers or whatever you say) demands the cams, then the only way to get rid of them is to have them banned or to make maintaining them prohibitively expensive (aka vandalism) like it or not.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54690
02/12/03 03:39 PM
02/12/03 03:39 PM
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orange county, ca
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either surfline took down the black's cam or someone found it and tore it down.... Surfline - Black's

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54691
02/12/03 03:59 PM
02/12/03 03:59 PM
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I don't think it ever was a fixed camera, I thought it was a 2-3 minute loop of video from someone visiting the south lookout. Maybe it's only down for now, but then again, Surfline might have caved from the feedback from the surf community.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54692
02/12/03 04:00 PM
02/12/03 04:00 PM
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Carlsbad, California
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They are now showing a loop of Scripps Pier. Despite all the objections, I enjoyed the Blacks loop.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54693
02/12/03 04:20 PM
02/12/03 04:20 PM
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I'm with you WYD, I kindof like the loops. From what I usually see it looks like the camera guy usually tries to miss the set waves (especially for the Lowers loop). The other day his loop stopped as a set was approaching and then started again after the set was done.

As for the Blacks loop and me being up here in SC, I would probably be less likely to surf there. Since time for surf is lacking (with a kid and house repairs), If I checked the cam before I went, and unless it was firing, I'd probably stay here and surf the smaller surf.

But I usually get up to surf way before those loops start, so I only look at them to judge the other written reports and maybe forecast for the next day (which I'm sure lots of SD guys do with the Lowers cam during the summer). So wait, now I say ban them all [Wink] . I can live without the added forecasting use of them as long as it means less people coming to Trestles in the summer.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54694
02/12/03 04:26 PM
02/12/03 04:26 PM
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bock Offline
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why do you think anyone has a privacy right when surfing a very public beach?

Post deleted by Scott Bass #54695
02/12/03 10:28 PM
02/12/03 10:28 PM
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Post deleted by Scott Bass #54696
02/12/03 10:29 PM
02/12/03 10:29 PM
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Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54697
02/12/03 10:30 PM
02/12/03 10:30 PM
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I know something you don't know, and I'm not gonna tell. But I'll bet some other people know what I'm talkin' about.

Re: surfline put up a cam at black's.... #54698
02/13/03 01:46 PM
02/13/03 01:46 PM
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blakestah Offline
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bock wrote:
quote:
why do you think anyone has a privacy right when surfing a very public beach?
Dunno, do eye? Mebbe, because it is in the state Constitution? This article has been interpreted VERY broadly in California.

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.

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