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Refinance now?? #2994723
08/09/19 05:24 PM
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We're only 2 years in on our mortgage 4.00% and are looking to refinance at 3.75% locked rate, no points. The property value has increased 100k (speculative until appraisal but also conservative based on neighborhood comps) We have an FHA and would be able to get out of the PMI ($300 or so a month, we will keep paying the same each month, so we can pay down the mortgage a bit quicker) crap we're currently paying. I'm no expert but this seems like a good idea. Any thoughts from the armchair pros on here?

Cheers, Belch

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994725
08/09/19 05:32 PM
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If you have an FHA loan you can do a "FHA quick refinance" that will allow you to drop the points without getting an appraisal.


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994741
08/09/19 06:11 PM
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I just closed on a construction loan at 3.875%.
Thought that was pretty good.

I'm no expert - but what will the closing costs be for the refi and how does that compare to the overall 0.25% savings?
I assume its probably in your favor but thats what I always remember hearing when talking about refi.

Last edited by HatterasGlass; 08/09/19 06:11 PM.
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994755
08/09/19 06:30 PM
08/09/19 06:30 PM
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You know refinancing costs you more money in the long run right? Sure your monthly payments are lower but your entire term starts over and guess what? If before you refinance every payment you were making lets say 80% was going towards interest and 20% to principal, after you refinance 95% of your payment is going to interest and 5% to principal. These numbers are rough, but you get the point. Your payments go down but you're further delaying how long it takes to make actual payments towards your principal.

Banks aren't in the business of making less money for themselves.

Plus you add in all the refinance fees.

Never....refinance.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994767
08/09/19 06:55 PM
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Pancake is very wrong. Makes sense to refi when you run the numbers and they come out in your favor. Short term, like under 5 yrs, probably not worth it.

If you can get 2% lower, you make up the costs in about 3 yrs.

.25% not really worth it though unless you go to 10/15 yr from 30 yr. Look up finance calculators and figure it out for yourself.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/refinance-calculator

Last edited by Driftcoast; 08/09/19 06:56 PM.
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Driftcoast] #2994772
08/09/19 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Driftcoast
Pancake is very wrong. Makes sense to refi when you run the numbers and they come out in your favor. Short term, like under 5 yrs, probably not worth it.

If you can get 2% lower, you make up the costs in about 3 yrs.

.25% not really worth it though unless you go to 10/15 yr from 30 yr. Look up finance calculators and figure it out for yourself.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/refinance-calculator


How long would someone be working at a bank for that came up with a way for them to make less money?

Go look at an amortization sheet and tell me how you don't spend more money over 30 years when you start your term over refinancing.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994806
08/09/19 08:18 PM
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Pancake has a point but you can make up for that differences by including additional "principal only" payments from time to time, or possibly switching to a bi-weekly payment rather than monthly.

Like he said, analyze the amortization table for the two options for the best comparison.

Add that $300 PMI payment to the amortization table for your current loan until you're under 80% LTV (I think this is when you're release from insurance) and compare apples to apples.

savings accounts suck, I'm not sure how much to invest in index funds, but I feel like I'm saving 3.75% on my money every time I do a principal-only payment.

Last edited by Fritzo; 08/09/19 08:19 PM.
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994807
08/09/19 08:21 PM
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get rid of the PMI - no brainer.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994816
08/09/19 08:45 PM
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Similar vein what math does a PMI make sense?

Sure, 20% down is brutal on your cash but at the same time why are you buying if you can’t stomach it?

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994817
08/09/19 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Belchfire1
We're only 2 years in on our mortgage 4.00% and are looking to refinance at 3.75% locked rate, no points. The property value has increased 100k (speculative until appraisal but also conservative based on neighborhood comps) We have an FHA and would be able to get out of the PMI ($300 or so a month, we will keep paying the same each month, so we can pay down the mortgage a bit quicker) crap we're currently paying. I'm no expert but this seems like a good idea. Any thoughts from the armchair pros on here?

Cheers, Belch


I'm a mortgage guy -- PM me. If you're not paying points and getting out of the FHA loan (MI for life) it's a good deal based on current rates. But I think it's gonna get better . . .

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Ranga] #2994820
08/09/19 08:52 PM
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I can't lend in CA, but will be glad to give you my $.02

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: rts265] #2994832
08/09/19 09:35 PM
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The removal of the PMI is the main driver. We can afford the mortgage and will continue paying the same amount every month, but the $300 something in PMI will go towards principal each month.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: sd_101] #2994874
08/09/19 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sd_101
Similar vein what math does a PMI make sense?

Sure, 20% down is brutal on your cash but at the same time why are you buying if you can’t stomach it?

Have you looked at home prices lately?

People don't walk around with $250k in liquid cash


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994875
08/09/19 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Belchfire1
The removal of the PMI is the main driver. We can afford the mortgage and will continue paying the same amount every month, but the $300 something in PMI will go towards principal each month.

Which means you gain more equity. Do it, its a no-brainer


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: ifallalot] #2994968
08/10/19 11:40 AM
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Yes, do it. I refinanced twice in 3 years. Mortgage payment dropped $475 altogether.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2994978
08/10/19 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Belchfire1
The removal of the PMI is the main driver. We can afford the mortgage and will continue paying the same amount every month, but the $300 something in PMI will go towards principal each month.

That's a win


Nobody surfs here anymore..........it's too crowded

shaka
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995092
08/10/19 05:16 PM
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read the fine print. all loans come with a charge. no points doesn't exactly mean no points


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995113
08/10/19 06:05 PM
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I do VA and FHA streamlines all day long. The FHA monthly payment is .85% of the loan amount divided by 12.

So youre really paying 4.85%. if you get a conventional at 3.75% or even 4% - Youre winning. Just dont pay a lot of points.

hit me up if you want another quote. you can take the appraisal to other lenders


btw youre on 28 years left. some lenders can set the term the same. otherwise have your LO calculate the extra principal you need to pay to pay off in 28 yrs. that defeats the amortization reset.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: laidback] #2995114
08/10/19 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by laidback
Originally Posted by Belchfire1
The removal of the PMI is the main driver. We can afford the mortgage and will continue paying the same amount every month, but the $300 something in PMI will go towards principal each month.

That's a win


It's a win. What's the APR


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995139
08/10/19 08:08 PM
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You can refinance at different amortization schedules, 15 yrs instead of 30 yrs is a common alternative. You might be able to get a 25yr loan which would actually pay off a little sooner than your current mtg.

Let's say your outstanding mtg is for $400k.

The principle+interest payment for a 30yr loan at 4% is about $1910, not counting property taxes, insurance and PMI
The principle+interest payment for a 25yr loan at 4% is about $2110
The principle+interest payment for a 25yr loan at 3.75% is about $2055

Of course, none of this takes into account your origination costs (loan fees and such). That adds up, too

Some of the decision making here will involve how long you intend to hold the property, through hell and highwater and possible divorce or job loss. These are serious factors that will vary by individual situation.



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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995184
08/11/19 01:31 AM
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Refi’d to a 15-year fixed a couple years back at 3.5% which will save us something like $80k over the life of the loan compared to our previous 30-year. As risk averse as I am, the payment only went up like $900 a month, so hoping all goes well and we have the house paid off in our late 50’s.

Were fortunate enough to avoid PMI but it was on the table at one point.


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995198
08/11/19 03:17 AM
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I work in the industry and can lend in CA. definitely get rid of the FHA PMI as it's squandering valuable money.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995217
08/11/19 04:41 AM
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Just heard the Federal Reserve is going to lower its rate for the first time in umpteen years. The window is now until the 3rd qtr next year.

From what I hear after qtr 3 next year the economy is going to take a huge dump.

Unless Trump wins.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995256
08/11/19 02:16 PM
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I pay pmi. Our home was kind of an impulse buy so we didn’t have much cash on hand for down payment. Gained 250k in Zillow value since 2015, but our interest rate is only 3%. Even with the rate decreases in every scenario I have explored my payment is still cheaper with pmi and a low rate than it would be to refinance. But that’s pretty unique. If I could keep the 3% and ditch the pmi that would be fantastic.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995459
08/12/19 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Belchfire1
The removal of the PMI is the main driver. We can afford the mortgage and will continue paying the same amount every month, but the $300 something in PMI will go towards principal each month.


If you can get rid of that stupid PMI payment and get a slightly lower rate as well, it's a no-brainer to refinance. Putting that extra $300+ into the monthly payment is smart.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995460
08/12/19 02:01 AM
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wait a year.

Fed entering full blown rate cut cycle likely starting September but no later than December IMO.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: subway] #2995511
08/12/19 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by subway
I pay pmi. Our home was kind of an impulse buy so we didn’t have much cash on hand for down payment. Gained 250k in Zillow value since 2015, but our interest rate is only 3%. Even with the rate decreases in every scenario I have explored my payment is still cheaper with pmi and a low rate than it would be to refinance. But that’s pretty unique. If I could keep the 3% and ditch the pmi that would be fantastic.


Couldn't you get your home reappraised? The new appraisal value should eliminate the requirement for PMI. That would raise your property tax though.


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2995575
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yeah and our property taxes just went up quite a bit as it is (legislative, not appraisal related)

Oh and we got that type of loan where the PMI remains, now matter what equity percentage we reach, for the life of the loan. So we will obviously refi at SOME point, bt with my absurdly low interest rate, the Fed needs to cut a bit more in order for it to come into the money

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: FishFace] #2995637
08/12/19 04:36 PM
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Thanks FishFace. I may hit you up after we get the appraisal. The 28 year or even 25 year loan is a pretty good idea. I'm gonna be old as dirt at that point anyways, so paying this loan off probably isn't actually happening. I'll be like 75 years old. Thinking we'll probably sell the place in 20 years and retire somewhere other than Encinitas. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I appreciate it.

Belch

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: subway] #2995724
08/12/19 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by subway
yeah and our property taxes just went up quite a bit as it is (legislative, not appraisal related)

Oh and we got that type of loan where the PMI remains, now matter what equity percentage we reach, for the life of the loan. So we will obviously refi at SOME point, bt with my absurdly low interest rate, the Fed needs to cut a bit more in order for it to come into the money



I've not heard of non-cancellable mortgage insurance.My advice is to keep track of your loan balance and area home prices. Once the loan balance reaches 80 percent of the home’s original value, you can ask the lender to drop the mortgage insurance premiums.

Exceptions? Yes, FHA loans on property purchased with less than 10% down. I guess that's what you have.


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: FishFace] #2995752
08/12/19 10:13 PM
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I'm not following the math here Fishface.

So say the loan amount is $260k

.85% of that is 2,210, then divided by 12 is $184.17

or am I doing it wrong and .85% is $221,000 then didided by 12 should be $18,416.67 ?

Neither one is right to me, so I might need a lil more splaining. what part did I miss?

Is it .....add .85% to the interest rate? like if the rate is 3.75% it becomes 4.6%?
if that is the case then the payment would be roughly 1k, yes?

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996112
08/13/19 06:55 PM
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Wow...lots of misinformation here. Good luck!


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Who's Your Daddy] #2996114
08/13/19 06:59 PM
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Who's your Daddy? Any insight you care to share?

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996236
08/13/19 10:20 PM
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Sorry, no time to chime in. You get what you pay for when seeking advice on the BB....


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996287
08/14/19 01:21 AM
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Dropping PMI is a no brainer.

If anyone wants a simple spreadsheet with Amortization and PITI calcs to calculate total interest paid PM me and email and I'll send it. It'll give you the true cost of interest over the life of the loan.

I just refi'd to drop to 3.625 from 4.25%.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996296
08/14/19 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Belchfire1
Who's your Daddy? Any insight you care to share?

Cracks me up when posters take them time to chime in order to tell everyone they're wrong, then they are "too busy" to explain why #toocoolforschool roflmao bigdeal


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996309
08/14/19 02:34 AM
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BORING! tomato

Are you guys fags? monkey


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Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996313
08/14/19 02:45 AM
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I refi'd into VA Loan at 3% a few years ago. As a DAV I don't pay fees or closing costs, which is nice....and no PMI on VA loans.


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The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996323
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Trona
I'm already in too deep to refi.

I don't want to reset the clock.

Would rather continue to just pay the thing off.

The monthly savings isn't enough to make me want to jump ship.


\_(''/)_/

Kids! Throw them to the gorillas! ~Autoprax
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Who's Your Daddy] #2996357
08/14/19 12:25 PM
08/14/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,296
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rts265 Offline
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Originally Posted by Who's Your Daddy
Sorry, no time to chime in. You get what you pay for when seeking advice on the BB....


Op I can send you my loan person if you want. PM me.

She just emailed me about the recent rate drop.

So, I guess it would be better than erbb advice?

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: rts265] #2996426
08/14/19 03:32 PM
08/14/19 03:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 412
Leucadia
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Belchfire1 Offline OP
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Leucadia
Everyone, thanks for the advice. I think I gots it figured out enough.

Cheers,
Belch

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: grapedrink] #2996662
08/14/19 09:16 PM
08/14/19 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,165
Carlsbad, California
W
Who's Your Daddy Offline
Tom Curren status
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Carlsbad, California
Originally Posted by grapedrink
Originally Posted by Belchfire1
Who's your Daddy? Any insight you care to share?

Cracks me up when posters take them time to chime in order to tell everyone they're wrong, then they are "too busy" to explain why #toocoolforschool roflmao bigdeal


Hardly too cool, grapedrink. Just a statement that there is misinformation on this thread and that this isn't possibly the best place for financial advice. Need an example:

JEwing stated (and I think should have known better): " The new appraisal value should eliminate the requirement for PMI. That would raise your property tax though."

This is unequivocally false in California . The property tax would not change based on refinance or appraisal activity...though it would most likely eliminate PMI (a great reason to refi).

Thanks to Proposition 13, which decreased property taxes by assessing values at their 1976 value and restricted annual increases of assessed value of real property to an inflation factor, not to exceed 2 percent per year. It also prohibited reassessment of a new base year value except in cases of (a) change in ownership, or (b) completion of new construction. These rules apply equally to all real estate, residential and commercial—whether owned by individuals or corporations.

What this means is that even if your property value increased 50% from the time of your purchase (the price at which your assessed value is set, if after 1976), your assessed value can only increase by 2% per year....regardless of any appraisal or refinance activity. The exception would be if new construction were occurring...which I don't believe to be the case with the original poster.

Sorry you think I was being a dick....some of us just don't have that much time. Now suck it!


This space available for rent
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2996792
08/15/19 03:47 AM
08/15/19 03:47 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,359
A Beach
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grapedrink Online happy
Phil Edwards status
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A Beach
Quote
some of us just don't have that much time

Sorry, I just don’t buy the whole “I don’t have enough time to explain why you are wrong, but I did have time to log in, read the whole thread, then leave a snarky know-it-all remark” schtick. It’s lame. You also found the time to explain prop 13, which is real estate 101 for anyone who has purchased a home in California, so not exactly new.
Do you have anything of actual value to contribute confused2


You forgot it was STOLEN?!
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: grapedrink] #2996960
08/15/19 04:11 PM
08/15/19 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,165
Carlsbad, California
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Who's Your Daddy Offline
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Originally Posted by grapedrink
Quote
some of us just don't have that much time

Sorry, I just don’t buy the whole “I don’t have enough time to explain why you are wrong, but I did have time to log in, read the whole thread, then leave a snarky know-it-all remark” schtick. It’s lame. You also found the time to explain prop 13, which is real estate 101 for anyone who has purchased a home in California, so not exactly new.
Do you have anything of actual value to contribute confused2


LMFAO...this is why I rarely even think of checking the BB nowadays.

1. I had time the second day to make a longer post.

2. Yes, everyone knows about Prop 13, yest somehow advice was given contrary to it....which was my point.

3. You are a douche...seeya cupcake!


This space available for rent
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Who's Your Daddy] #2997246
08/16/19 01:01 AM
08/16/19 01:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,526
California USA
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JEwing Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,526
California USA
Originally Posted by Who's Your Daddy

This is unequivocally false in California . The property tax would not change based on refinance or appraisal activity...though it would most likely eliminate PMI (a great reason to refi).

Thanks to Proposition 13, which decreased property taxes by assessing values at their 1976 value and restricted annual increases of assessed value of real property to an inflation factor, not to exceed 2 percent per year. It also prohibited reassessment of a new base year value except in cases of (a) change in ownership, or (b) completion of new construction. These rules apply equally to all real estate, residential and commercial—whether owned by individuals or corporations.

What this means is that even if your property value increased 50% from the time of your purchase (the price at which your assessed value is set, if after 1976), your assessed value can only increase by 2% per year....regardless of any appraisal or refinance activity. The exception would be if new construction were occurring...which I don't believe to be the case with the original poster.

Sorry you think I was being a dick....some of us just don't have that much time. Now suck it!


I specifically replied to Subway who lives on the east coast where prop 13 doesn't exist.


I was a little bit smarter and quicker than everyone else, so I've been able to live the way I've wanted to live - Mickey Dora
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2997266
08/16/19 01:44 AM
08/16/19 01:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,246
around san diego
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sd_101 Offline
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around san diego
So... was it lies, facts or opinions?

I still stand by the fact that I think PMI is a doofus move, even if CA housing prices require a $200k down payment. If you can’t afford it then why throw money away at a PMI, and suddenly believe you can afford it?

Want more space, relocate. Pissing away money for sq ft and proximity to the coast is ridiculous unless you make the money to back it up.

Commuting or relocating sucks but wasting money is still wasting money.

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: Belchfire1] #2997288
08/16/19 02:45 AM
08/16/19 02:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,083
san diego
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tsenn Offline
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san diego
Classic erbb...OP has long since bailed...others continue arguing....

Re: Refinance now?? [Re: sd_101] #2997297
08/16/19 03:19 AM
08/16/19 03:19 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,359
A Beach
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grapedrink Online happy
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Originally Posted by sd_101
So... was it lies, facts or opinions?

I still stand by the fact that I think PMI is a doofus move, even if CA housing prices require a $200k down payment. If you can’t afford it then why throw money away at a PMI, and suddenly believe you can afford it?

Want more space, relocate. Pissing away money for sq ft and proximity to the coast is ridiculous unless you make the money to back it up.

Commuting or relocating sucks but wasting money is still wasting money.

I see your point and agree with a lot of this. Although in todays world you can be doing pretty well, easily afford $3-4k/month in housing costs, but still have a tough time saving $150-200k in a timely manner for a down payment. In the time it takes you to save, the price increases could easily exceed your down payment. If you are able to lock in at a good price and refi later to get rid of the PMI, then thats a good move in hindsight.

That said, I wouldn't buy anything with PMI (or without) at the peak or start of a downslide, like where we seem to be now. That would be dufusy for sure foreheadslap


You forgot it was STOLEN?!
Re: Refinance now?? [Re: sd_101] #2997361
08/16/19 09:59 AM
08/16/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57,278
HB, CA
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ifallalot Offline
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Posts: 57,278
HB, CA
Originally Posted by sd_101
So... was it lies, facts or opinions?

I still stand by the fact that I think PMI is a doofus move, even if CA housing prices require a $200k down payment. If you can’t afford it then why throw money away at a PMI, and suddenly believe you can afford it?

Want more space, relocate. Pissing away money for sq ft and proximity to the coast is ridiculous unless you make the money to back it up.

Commuting or relocating sucks but wasting money is still wasting money.

If you can afford the monthly, PMI or not, you can afford it

Amount of down payment has nothing to do with how much you can afford. If you choose to throw away money on PMI, and you can afford it, BFD


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
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