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Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2974817
06/30/19 04:39 PM
06/30/19 04:39 PM
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Everyone likes 911s.


A threat response is a potent trigger for motivated reasoning.

"People who are right a lot listen a lot, and they change their mind a lot. . . . . They wake up and reanalyze things and change their mind. If you don't change your mind frequently, you're going to be wrong a lot."
Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2974835
06/30/19 05:15 PM
06/30/19 05:15 PM
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Too advanced so both were outlawed



The 2J competed in the Can-Am series and qualified at least two seconds quicker than the next fastest car--but mechanical problems limited its success. It ran for only one season, in 1970, after which it was outlawed by the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). Although originally approved by the SCCA, they succumbed to pressure from other teams who argued that the fans constituted "movable aerodynamic devices." Sanctioning body FIA had banned such devices beginning with the 2E. There were also complaints of debris generated by the fans damaging following cars. McLaren argued that if the 2J were not outlawed, the Can-Am series would be ruined by its dominance—something McLaren had been doing since 1967.[6] A similar fan was used in Formula One eight years later on the Brabham BT46B, which won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix, but the company reverted to the fanless BT46 soon afterwards due to concern for rules violation. The car was later deemed to have been within FIA technical specifications.

It was amazing watching how well this worked back then .








Looks like some straight face claiming anothers break thru design too ;-)

Re: F1 [Re: Greg Griffin] #2974907
06/30/19 08:54 PM
06/30/19 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Greg Griffin
Too advanced so both were outlawed



The 2J competed in the Can-Am series and qualified at least two seconds quicker than the next fastest car--but mechanical problems limited its success. It ran for only one season, in 1970, after which it was outlawed by the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA). Although originally approved by the SCCA, they succumbed to pressure from other teams who argued that the fans constituted "movable aerodynamic devices." Sanctioning body FIA had banned such devices beginning with the 2E. There were also complaints of debris generated by the fans damaging following cars. McLaren argued that if the 2J were not outlawed, the Can-Am series would be ruined by its dominance—something McLaren had been doing since 1967.[6] A similar fan was used in Formula One eight years later on the Brabham BT46B, which won the 1978 Swedish Grand Prix, but the company reverted to the fanless BT46 soon afterwards due to concern for rules violation. The car was later deemed to have been within FIA technical specifications.

It was amazing watching how well this worked back then .





<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pukIEuzgd3U" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Looks like some straight face claiming anothers break thru design too ;-)

Texas redneck Jim Hall started all this in the mid 60's.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2974941
06/30/19 11:52 PM
06/30/19 11:52 PM
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It was video game like how much faster they went thru turns :-)

Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2975193
07/01/19 03:48 PM
07/01/19 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Leaverite

a 50Mil$ mansion besides of a tent.
The Dutch.
I can't even describe it.

Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2975383
07/01/19 08:58 PM
07/01/19 08:58 PM
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We need another Mario Andretti to get the American public interested in F-1.

When I lived in Italy I never watched soccer but always watched F1. It was the time of Michael Schumacher and Ferrari dominance, so good times for Italians. I also watched World Cup Skiing and the Tour de France. Those year were the years of Lance Armstrong's dominance and I became a fan. Kind of disappointing how that all turned out.

Re: F1 [Re: QuadFin] #2975392
07/01/19 09:09 PM
07/01/19 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by QuadFin
F1 so boring.

Best drivers in world, best cars in world, best engineering. But so boring because same top teams wins all the time. Car spring to lead in first lap and stay that way to end of race unless big crash.

$150-400m each year to have F1 team. Stupid.

New budget max per team, $150-million from 2021

[Linked Image]



Years ago when they ran the Long Beach Grand Prix with F-1 I went to see it. Seeing it live, on streets you have driven, was mind boggling, anything but boring, even watching the car in last place. Where I was sitting we would see them go through a series of s turns in the distance, then a block long straight going up a steep hill, brake, and then a 90 degree turn after which they would disappear down a long straight away. The acceleration they did in that block going up hill shocked2 . Then the thing I was never aware of until seeing it live was the braking socrazy They would get going way over 100mph going up that one block, then slam on the brakes, sometimes skidding into the 90 degree turn going about 60mph (?) and then be gone.

Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2975405
07/01/19 09:37 PM
07/01/19 09:37 PM
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This was a little before I saw the LBGP but it jibes with what I remember. We were sitting where they made the right turn onto Ocean, the s turns were down by Pine (in the video at about 1:30). Anybody who's ever driven down Ocean Blvd in Long Beach will get a feel for their speed....and this video's from the 70's.

[Linked Image]


Re: F1 [Re: patrolman] #2975448
07/01/19 10:51 PM
07/01/19 10:51 PM
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Like baseball, I imagine being a live spectator at an F1 is far better than TV.

On TV? Meh. The fact that they drive through cities is pretty cool though shaka


You forgot it was STOLEN?!
Re: F1 [Re: Autoprax] #2976372
07/03/19 05:31 PM
07/03/19 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Autoprax
Everyone likes 911s.


It has such a timeless, eye pleasing shape. No other car stood the test of time as well.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]






"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2976376
07/03/19 05:41 PM
07/03/19 05:41 PM
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F1 was always about pit stop strategy and qualis. Generally after the start and the first lap, it's a snooze fest unless you really nerd out on details.

What's fascinating is the technology that stems from it.

The advances in aerodynamics alone are insane.

Humble brag: I've been working with the Renault team for a few years now, since they powered the Red Bull team. Fun gig.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: F1 [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2976571
07/04/19 03:08 AM
07/04/19 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted by Leaverite
We all are surfers. We all follow and enjoy the tech that trickles down to us.

We also all drive cars.

The F1 stuff these days is the absolute cutting edge. If these cars did no have downforce they would be airplanes.

A twin turbo, gasoline engine with a hybrid motor.

The rules. The hybrid battery pack gives about a 160HP

I still watch regularly (recording Austrian GP now) but these cars a f-ing stupid. They pretty much turned it into Formula Prius for political reasons. The expense of developing and building these contraptions means only the major factory teams can do it and the non-factory teams have to rent their engine packages from their competitors. The only outlier (not actually entering an entire car but renting powerplants) is Honda. No Judd, no Cosworth, no Yamaha, no Ilmor etc, etc.

I want them to over power the cars with a 3.5L formula, normally aspirated, 12 cyls max.

They'd likely all wind up being V-10's based on the compromise of power and fuel consumption but there are plenty of smaller manufacturers and specialty racing outfits that can put together a reliable 950-1100Hp V-10 and the electronics to tame the beasts are readily available- Marelli sells tons of this stuff to F1 and MotoGP and there are lots smaller mfgrs of this stuff around the world.

I'd also get rid of the multi-element wings and DRS.

My last demand (wish) is that they allow pushrod V-8's up to 10L's, I want stuff a Brodix built 10L Chevrolet into an F1 car, it should make about 1500Hp all day long at a leisurely 8000rpm or so!


The power output they get out of the V6's today though is just absolutely insane. Twin turbocharged V6 with two electrical energy harvesting systems that add over 160 HP to the package. The primary thing is that conventional motor burns fuel so much more efficiently than normal engines. They have a special fuel pre combustion chamber and three spark sources per cylinder. More fuel is burned each stroke. The electrical systems work /charge off of both the braking system and the exhaust. All told, over a 1000 hp from a V6.

Until last weekend it has been pretty much Mercedes/Ferrari dominated but Team Red Bull (Aston Martin and Honda) took a really convincing win.

Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2976576
07/04/19 03:45 AM
07/04/19 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Leaverite
Originally Posted by CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted by Leaverite
We all are surfers. We all follow and enjoy the tech that trickles down to us.

We also all drive cars.

The F1 stuff these days is the absolute cutting edge. If these cars did no have downforce they would be airplanes.

A twin turbo, gasoline engine with a hybrid motor.

The rules. The hybrid battery pack gives about a 160HP

I still watch regularly (recording Austrian GP now) but these cars a f-ing stupid. They pretty much turned it into Formula Prius for political reasons. The expense of developing and building these contraptions means only the major factory teams can do it and the non-factory teams have to rent their engine packages from their competitors. The only outlier (not actually entering an entire car but renting powerplants) is Honda. No Judd, no Cosworth, no Yamaha, no Ilmor etc, etc.

I want them to over power the cars with a 3.5L formula, normally aspirated, 12 cyls max.

They'd likely all wind up being V-10's based on the compromise of power and fuel consumption but there are plenty of smaller manufacturers and specialty racing outfits that can put together a reliable 950-1100Hp V-10 and the electronics to tame the beasts are readily available- Marelli sells tons of this stuff to F1 and MotoGP and there are lots smaller mfgrs of this stuff around the world.

I'd also get rid of the multi-element wings and DRS.

My last demand (wish) is that they allow pushrod V-8's up to 10L's, I want stuff a Brodix built 10L Chevrolet into an F1 car, it should make about 1500Hp all day long at a leisurely 8000rpm or so!


The power output they get out of the V6's today though is just absolutely insane. Twin turbocharged V6 with two electrical energy harvesting systems that add over 160 HP to the package. The primary thing is that conventional motor burns fuel so much more efficiently than normal engines. They have a special fuel pre combustion chamber and three spark sources per cylinder. More fuel is burned each stroke. The electrical systems work /charge off of both the braking system and the exhaust. All told, over a 1000 hp from a V6.

Until last weekend it has been pretty much Mercedes/Ferrari dominated but Team Red Bull (Aston Martin and Honda) took a really convincing win.

I was a little bummed for Leclerc, he got robbed of his first win a few races back when 20% of that stupid fcuking powerplant failed. This last race Max was just faster when it counted.

BTW, the 1.5L Turbo's of the late 80's were making in the region of 1500Hp in qualifying and 1100-1300Hp for the race. Both the Renault V-6 and the BMW Inline-4 were production based engines.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: F1 [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2976578
07/04/19 03:52 AM
07/04/19 03:52 AM
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It's the greenness.

F1 is trying to step up and please all of the worldwide treehuggers, 1 pit stop per race, usually about 3 - 4 seconds for tires. No additional fuel.

A typical NASCAR car will burn up more fuel in 15 laps than an F1 car in a whole GP. Indy cars will take fuel on every pit.

But these cars also run 250 - 300 laps compared to 65 - 70 laps in F1.

Re: F1 [Re: Leaverite] #2976582
07/04/19 03:58 AM
07/04/19 03:58 AM
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Personally, I think the biggest thing holding F1 back is their sanctioning body/stewards.

These assholes need to let the drivers race.

Vettel got absolutely robbed in Canada. And that was the best award ceremony I have ever seen.

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