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#2915429 - 02/18/19 07:22 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Duffy]
jkb Offline
Miki Dora status
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 5643
Loc: Oceansuck
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
. That being said, I have found some quad sets that work extremely well.

None that come as part of the purchase socrazy


You should ask more of the industry , but just went along with this - creating all this frustration .




This...

https://www.cisurfboards.com/surfboards/legacy-lineup/wizard-sleeve/

...came with a set of fins made for it.

And wouldnt you know it, those fins work the best.


Meh.

I've had fins that have come with boards before that weren't the best (for me). I'm sure they were the best for someone, but not for me.
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#2915433 - 02/18/19 07:27 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: paunch23]
Waxfoot Offline
Grom
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Registered: 04/20/18
Posts: 118
Originally Posted By: paunch23
Wow for real??🤔

Care to explain that again? Why bigger fins work better??


Kinda surprised that you're so surprised... broadly speaking, you're a bigger guy, you need bigger fins.

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#2915471 - 02/18/19 08:23 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: jkb]
Greg Griffin Offline
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 18418
Loc: Palm Coast , Florida
"Meh.

I've had fins that have come with boards before that weren't the best (for me). "

Most likely off the shelf non custom for the design fins placed "somewhere " on the bottom near the rear of the board dancing
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#2915494 - 02/18/19 09:10 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Greg Griffin]
casa_mugrienta Offline
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Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 18601
Loc: Kek Point
Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
"Show me a quad set up that I can surf top to bottom with high performance like my thruster and I will be a believer.

I have never found one, especially surfing on by backside."

Because the industry is based on no fins for the board , its been left up you to learn what I have .

Fins that will make your board excel .



How do you make fins for a board you haven't seen?
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"Lots of trigger points up the pooper.
If they are causing the problem, realeasing them will help
I tried to talk my PT into doing it." -Autoprax

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#2915526 - 02/18/19 09:57 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: casa_mugrienta]
need 4 speed Offline
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Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 4426
Loc: SoCal
I'd start with a 1/4" panel and a bandsaw
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#2915529 - 02/18/19 10:21 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: need 4 speed]
casa_mugrienta Offline
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Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 18601
Loc: Kek Point
Originally Posted By: need 4 speed
I'd start with a 1/4" panel and a bandsaw


Right.

I agree with Greg's "fins made for the board" thinking.

What I don't understand is how someone makes fins for a board they haven't seen, and that those fins are somehow going to be better than something chosen from Futures or FCS.

What is the order process like if I were to order fins from Greg? Would I need to take measurements off the board or something?
_________________________

"Lots of trigger points up the pooper.
If they are causing the problem, realeasing them will help
I tried to talk my PT into doing it." -Autoprax

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#2915533 - 02/18/19 10:25 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: casa_mugrienta]
need 4 speed Offline
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Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 4426
Loc: SoCal
Ah,yes. In paticular the fin box position and issue you are having with the board
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#2915594 - 02/19/19 07:10 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: casa_mugrienta]
Greg Griffin Offline
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 18418
Loc: Palm Coast , Florida
"What I don't understand is how someone makes fins for a board they haven't seen, and that those fins are somehow going to be better than something chosen from Futures or FCS."

50 + years of dealing with fins as part of design you learn a lot .

I ask what fins they like , where the fins are placed , picture of the board etc .

Futures and FCS ask nothing and know nothing about board design .


Marketing = confusion and frustration in most cases , very much so in surfing

This is why you cant grasp how a 50 + year shaper who's made fins since the beginning can make a better fin for your board than a deck grip company wave2


This is enterntaining , my posts here have changed what many are riding and their view on design .

Need 4 speed being one .
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#2915606 - 02/19/19 08:30 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Waxfoot]
thelodge Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 162
My Med fins have always worked and worked very well. Fast, loose and skatey with plenty of drive.

I use AM Med on my 5'9 Dumpster Diver and the board goes insane. I used the Roberts Med fin on Meat Cleaver and the board went incredible (btw great fins). I use WCT Future on my Roberts Dream CAtcher, same result: fast, loose, and I can rip turns.

I'm starting to think it is a flex thing for me. The Large AM I tried were fiberglass which was has a ton of flex.
All my Med fins are honeycomb with a lot of flex. I hate stiff fins.

The AM Med Air Core were way to stiff, they were tracking.

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#2915668 - 02/19/19 11:25 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Greg Griffin]
jkb Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 5643
Loc: Oceansuck
Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
Most likely off the shelf non custom for the design fins placed "somewhere " on the bottom near the rear of the board dancing


No, they were custom fins made specifically for the board. I found an off the shelf pair that worked better (for me).

Originally Posted By: Greg Griffin
Futures and FCS ask nothing and know nothing about board design .


Futures and FCS aren't the ones making the board or deciding where the plugs should be placed. The shaper is doing that.......most likely with their own template that they designed for Futures and FCS to make.

If Channel Islands is shaping a board, they're probably shaping it with the CI fin template in mind and placed where it makes the board work best for most users. Same with Timmy Patterson and his fin template, Mayhem and his fin template, Pyzel and his fin template, ect....

But it still doesn't mean that fin template will work the best for everyone.
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#2915701 - 02/19/19 11:48 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: thelodge]
kool-aid Offline
Michael Peterson status
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Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 1890
Loc: San Francisco
I'm 5'11 and 180 and don't ride any fins that have less than 15.5 sq in surface area. When you look and see what fins pros are riding, it's interesting because except for the smallest guys, they're almost always on large fins even when they weigh like 160. More drive and speed in my opinion unless you overdo it with fin size, which is possible.

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#2915758 - 02/19/19 12:54 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: thelodge]
Oeste858 Offline
Legend (inyourownmind)
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Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 179
Loc: San Diego, CA
I'm with Greg on this one. Like he says, it's buying a car w/o tires. Aside from ease of use for travel, the whole fin system thing is a pain and created purely because FCS/Futures wanted a new product category to monetize (which is geniu$ on their part). For a lot of us, it ends up being trial and error process to figure out the fins for a new board- as this thread shows. Can be frustrating, expensive, as well as surfing time-wasting (which is the worst). I'm about 3 years into really experimenting with fins and trying to figure out what works for me & the boards I ride. But there are so many variables in board design and conditions for each session, trying to isolate what worked when a turn/wave/session felt good is just a guess. I'm honestly not sure how much more I really know than when I started! shrug
But I do own multiple sets of expensive fins now... Sucka! socrazy
At the very very least, shapers should recommend 2-4 templates with each board!

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#2915788 - 02/19/19 01:21 PM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Oeste858]
casa_mugrienta Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 18601
Loc: Kek Point
Originally Posted By: Oeste858
For a lot of us, it ends up being trial and error process to figure out the fins for a new board- as this thread shows. Can be frustrating, expensive, as well as surfing time-wasting (which is the worst). I'm about 3 years into really experimenting with fins and trying to figure out what works for me & the boards I ride. But there are so many variables in board design and conditions for each session, trying to isolate what worked when a turn/wave/session felt good is just a guess. I'm honestly not sure how much more I really know than when I started! shrug


This 100%.

Also, complicating matters, flex patterns vary from fin to fin.

One thing I've noticed is fin area seems to be an irrelevant component for the most part as templates, thickness, and flex patterns vary.

A larger fin can feel loose and lack drive while a significantly smaller fin can feel drivey and tracky.
_________________________

"Lots of trigger points up the pooper.
If they are causing the problem, realeasing them will help
I tried to talk my PT into doing it." -Autoprax

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#2916149 - 02/20/19 08:16 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Oeste858]
Duffy Online   content
Phil Edwards status
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Registered: 04/27/16
Posts: 6161
Loc: Your moms house
Originally Posted By: Oeste858
I'm with Greg on this one. Like he says, it's buying a car w/o tires. Aside from ease of use for travel, the whole fin system thing is a pain and created purely because FCS/Futures wanted a new product category to monetize (which is geniu$ on their part). For a lot of us, it ends up being trial and error process to figure out the fins for a new board- as this thread shows. Can be frustrating, expensive, as well as surfing time-wasting (which is the worst). I'm about 3 years into really experimenting with fins and trying to figure out what works for me & the boards I ride. But there are so many variables in board design and conditions for each session, trying to isolate what worked when a turn/wave/session felt good is just a guess. I'm honestly not sure how much more I really know than when I started! shrug
But I do own multiple sets of expensive fins now... Sucka! socrazy
At the very very least, shapers should recommend 2-4 templates with each board!


I like the experimentation and the ability to broaden the range of a board by switching fins. I often wonder about the shit dog boards I got with glass-ons, if I could have just changed the fins....
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#2916153 - 02/20/19 08:25 AM Re: Pyzel Phantom struggles [Re: Duffy]
Greg Griffin Offline
Duke status
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 18418
Loc: Palm Coast , Florida
OP is claiming this is a "Shit Dog" board due to his choice in fins .

So back at ya on that rock
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