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Abortion #2910787
02/08/19 07:25 PM
02/08/19 07:25 PM
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StuAzole Offline OP
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given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W, what would a world where life legally begins at conception look like from an enforcement perspective?

Around 50% of all pregnancies self-terminate, most before the mother even knows she's pregnant.

Will we need special investigative units to look into every failed pregnancy to be sure there was foul play?

Could moms who drink/smoke and miscarry be open to manslaughter charges?

Do pregnant women get a case worker assigned at their first OB/GYN appointment to make sure all goes according to plan?

I'm intrigued.


Bock you
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2910980
02/08/19 11:33 PM
02/08/19 11:33 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
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The solution is an abortion gun. Now the 2nd amendment protects the 1st...and Roe v. Wade.

"What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?"

Besides, what animal would try to take an abortion gun from a grieving mother that just lost their unborn child?

shrug

ban

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911007
02/09/19 12:50 AM
02/09/19 12:50 AM
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How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911012
02/09/19 12:54 AM
02/09/19 12:54 AM
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There are far too many d bags around as is, if anything we need more abortion.

Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911013
02/09/19 01:01 AM
02/09/19 01:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 287
Dick from the Depths
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Originally Posted By: mundus
There are far too many d bags around as is, if anything we need more abortion.


More guns. Make murder a misdemeanor. Free ammo.

Re: Abortion [Re: Phi1] #2911017
02/09/19 01:15 AM
02/09/19 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: Phi1
The solution is an abortion gun. Now the 2nd amendment protects the 1st...and Roe v. Wade.

"What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?"

Besides, what animal would try to take an abortion gun from a grieving mother that just lost their unborn child?

shrug

ban
an oddly intriguing concept cheers


ideologically vacant
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911037
02/09/19 03:14 AM
02/09/19 03:14 AM
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has anyone here had an abortion?


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: Abortion [Re: Phi1] #2911038
02/09/19 03:25 AM
02/09/19 03:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
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THE TERRORIST OF TERRAMAR
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Originally Posted By: Phi1
The solution is an abortion gun. Now the 2nd amendment protects the 1st...and Roe v. Wade.

"What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?"

Besides, what animal would try to take an abortion gun from a grieving mother that just lost their unborn child?

shrug

ban


I am the solution.


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911041
02/09/19 04:01 AM
02/09/19 04:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,821
HB, CA
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2911048
02/09/19 04:11 AM
02/09/19 04:11 AM
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San Diego
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying


roflmao Thank you, Dr. Logic!

Re: Abortion [Re: DerDer] #2911052
02/09/19 04:19 AM
02/09/19 04:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
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HB, CA
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Originally Posted By: DerDer
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying


roflmao Thank you, Dr. Logic!

Proving my point.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911053
02/09/19 04:36 AM
02/09/19 04:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,419
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


I see some false analogies and some attribute substitutions and some general mischaracterizations and some unethical appeals to emotion, but who cares about that when you are creating an unassailable argument like the one you presented?

Actually it's not really an argument.

Do you know what an argument is?

With like premise and conclusion?

You just sound all crazy with your imperatives.

Blathering.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2911075
02/09/19 06:30 AM
02/09/19 06:30 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,310
in the bathroom
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911077
02/09/19 07:09 AM
02/09/19 07:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,509
Santa Barbara County
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And here is another thought for my friends on the left. We are cursed with tRump, only because the religious right would make a deal with Satan himself if it would end baby killing. Something that none of you were able to defend.

How's that for some knee jerk dogma.


*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911079
02/09/19 07:12 AM
02/09/19 07:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,509
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


I see some false analogies and some attribute substitutions and some general mischaracterizations and some unethical appeals to emotion, but who cares about that when you are creating an unassailable argument like the one you presented?

Actually it's not really an argument.

Do you know what an argument is?

With like premise and conclusion?

You just sound all crazy with your imperatives.

Blathering.


That's the best you got? Your rebuttal is on the level with coathanger calling me a fag.

Since you missed it the first time,

My argument is
Quote:
You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 07:15 AM.

*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911088
02/09/19 09:04 AM
02/09/19 09:04 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,322
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ovrevik Offline
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.

I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911090
02/09/19 09:40 AM
02/09/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
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You boyz who might bitch about abortion should ALWAYS, Always, always shoot your wad into a vagina. Do you? If not, you are a killer, preventing your lovers pregnancy to happen:

Do Not Pull Out! Why are you killing your un~born lil' kids before they even have a chance?


PS ~ I hope too that you boyz do not use birth control.
No condoms. No snippie~snippie, give your girl what she biologically needs, wants, every~time.
That is what her vagina is for, for makin' babies, right? Give it to her!

Last edited by RWVBWL; 02/09/19 10:23 AM.
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911091
02/09/19 09:46 AM
02/09/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
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American women aren't lemmings.
They won't stand for it.

Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911106
02/09/19 12:43 PM
02/09/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,419
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr


My argument is
Quote:
You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.


Yeah, I get it. That's not an argument.

It's a conclusion without a premise using slanted vocabulary..

You're not as smart as you think you are.

You might want to try having less certainty in your life.

Fag


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911135
02/09/19 03:00 PM
02/09/19 03:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,509
Santa Barbara County
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 03:08 PM.
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911138
02/09/19 03:05 PM
02/09/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,509
Santa Barbara County
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax


You're not as smart as you think you are.

You might want to try having less certainty in your life.

Fag


I don't think I'm anything special. There's some stuff I know, and lots that I don't. I just seem smart, because if i don't know something, i keep quiet. I might be really stupid, but i just don't let anyone know. (This is your comedy set up. Knock it out of the park )

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should take that risk.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 03:13 PM.

*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911143
02/09/19 03:20 PM
02/09/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,404
Your moms house
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W, what would a world where life legally begins at conception look like from an enforcement perspective?

Around 50% of all pregnancies self-terminate, most before the mother even knows she's pregnant.

Will we need special investigative units to look into every failed pregnancy to be sure there was foul play?

Could moms who drink/smoke and miscarry be open to manslaughter charges?

Do pregnant women get a case worker assigned at their first OB/GYN appointment to make sure all goes according to plan?

I'm intrigued.





Your premise is false.

1. Roe will not be overturned.

2. Even if it was that doesnt make abortion illegal.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911144
02/09/19 03:23 PM
02/09/19 03:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,404
Your moms house
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
has anyone here had an abortion?


Every time I jerk off its half an abortion.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911145
02/09/19 03:23 PM
02/09/19 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should the that risk.


So you are saying that your ignorance should dictate policy for female reproduction?


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: Duffy] #2911147
02/09/19 03:24 PM
02/09/19 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: afoaf
has anyone here had an abortion?


Every time I jerk off its half an abortion.


Isn't a period the other have of the abortion?


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911149
02/09/19 03:26 PM
02/09/19 03:26 PM
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Posts: 20,160
In Gods Country
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: everysurfr

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should the that risk.


So you are saying that your ignorance should dictate policy for female reproduction?

Our ignorance would be more accurate. Either way, if you punch a pregnant mommy in the tummy and what's inside dies, it's murder.


...and we're not all that ignorant on this subject.

Last edited by CharmingSophisticate; 02/09/19 03:28 PM. Reason: Science

"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911155
02/09/19 03:56 PM
02/09/19 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W, what would a world where life legally begins at conception look like from an enforcement perspective?

Around 50% of all pregnancies self-terminate, most before the mother even knows she's pregnant.

Will we need special investigative units to look into every failed pregnancy to be sure there was foul play?

Could moms who drink/smoke and miscarry be open to manslaughter charges?

Do pregnant women get a case worker assigned at their first OB/GYN appointment to make sure all goes according to plan?

I'm intrigued.





After the artificial womb becomes available, the state will become the ward of all unwanted offspring.

A penny for the anti-abortionist's thoughts?



Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911167
02/09/19 04:57 PM
02/09/19 04:57 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,322
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.

Re: Abortion [Re: manbearpig] #2911170
02/09/19 05:01 PM
02/09/19 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

You and all your buddies only cry false analogy when you don't like the outcome of the analogy. I probably do it too. Nothing Is truly analogous if you add enough NUANCE!


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911171
02/09/19 05:03 PM
02/09/19 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.


That 30,000 number seems extremely high, but otherwise I agree with the rest of your assertions about the trimester


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2911182
02/09/19 05:24 PM
02/09/19 05:24 PM
Joined: May 2011
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.


That 30,000 number seems extremely high, but otherwise I agree with the rest of your assertions about the trimester


https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/...ence-and-safety

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911185
02/09/19 05:27 PM
02/09/19 05:27 PM
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Dudes who care about women they don't know killing their fetuses made by some other dude trip me out.

It's like Squildlys obsession with the gays.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911190
02/09/19 05:33 PM
02/09/19 05:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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everysurfr Offline
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
[

That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.



The development of a nervous system in interesting as a benchmark. But it still comes back to how many cells does it take for it take to become a nervous system. At just a few days, nervous system cells begin forming what will become the brain. That's just a few days. So do you know how many brain cells are needed before it is human? I don't. So I'm back at, if you don't know if it is human life, you don't gamble.

Your second point is a numbers game. You will loose that one. For every mother who dies, there are 1000's of unborn babies who died.

If you want to save both lives, destigmatize giving a baby up for adoption. Give support to pregnant mothers.

I'll take baby steps. I can't save the world's problems. I can't save 30,000 pregnant mothers. (On the side, I wonder what makes up that number. How would safe abortion change that number.)

Let's just stay within our own borders. It's not our place to rule the world.

And using language like calling me vicious for questioning when life begins says a lot about your dogma. Question everything, always.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 05:35 PM.

*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911192
02/09/19 05:35 PM
02/09/19 05:35 PM
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Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.

Last edited by mundus; 02/09/19 05:49 PM.
Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2911197
02/09/19 05:45 PM
02/09/19 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

You and all your buddies only cry false analogy when you don't like the outcome of the analogy. I probably do it too. Nothing Is truly analogous if you add enough NUANCE!

roflmao roflmao thats exactly what you do.

Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911199
02/09/19 05:50 PM
02/09/19 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr

Let's just stay within our own borders. It's not our place to rule the world.

.


So you just want to rule over women who are within a certain distance from you?

Okay.





We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911200
02/09/19 05:50 PM
02/09/19 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children?


My brother adopted two little girls from China. It took a year, and tens if not a hundred thousand dollars.

There is no shortage of parents willing to pay.


*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911201
02/09/19 05:52 PM
02/09/19 05:52 PM
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I see a 22k number in that article but I guess when you're taking 7 billion people into account even a fractional percentage is going to come out as a high number


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911203
02/09/19 05:53 PM
02/09/19 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Dudes who care about women they don't know killing their fetuses made by some other dude trip me out.

It's like Squildlys obsession with the gays.


So we should also be ok with the murder of any children if they aren't ours?


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911204
02/09/19 05:53 PM
02/09/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: everysurfr

Let's just stay within our own borders. It's not our place to rule the world.

.


So you just want to rule over women who are within a certain distance from you?

Okay.


You got me... I like it when American laws stop Americans from doing bad things.


*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911209
02/09/19 06:06 PM
02/09/19 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
My brother adopted two little girls from China. It took a year, and tens if not a hundred thousand dollars.
There is no shortage of parents willing to pay.

Big prop's to your brother for wanting them, taking on on the responsibility of raising those little girls.

That said, I also agree with this:
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.

Years ago,
there were only 4 billion pep's on this Earth. Now there are 7.53 billion.
Everyone bitches about how crowded the surf is, how bad traffic is, how f**ked up thee world is.
But whoooah unto them if a female wants to abort her un~wanted pregnancy. Pffft.

My lil' opinion?
ONLY WOMEN should make ANY laws about abortion.
But that's wrong huh, not lettin' a dude have a say in what happens inside a womans body, right?


Last edited by RWVBWL; 02/09/19 06:10 PM.
Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911211
02/09/19 06:10 PM
02/09/19 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.
How about this. Let's make it affordable for poor single moms by legalizing a womans right to perform her own abortion up until age 18. Obviously some rules will have to made regarding the disposition of the corpse but that's just a technical exercise.

This would let the woman decide- maybe she started out wanting the kid but wasn't really cool with the cost and by age 5 decided to abort/euthanize. She'd save tons of money doing it herself.
What better way to help poor women?


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911212
02/09/19 06:12 PM
02/09/19 06:12 PM
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I like it!


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2911221
02/09/19 06:19 PM
02/09/19 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.
How about this. Let's make it affordable for poor single moms by legalizing a womans right to perform her own abortion up until age 18. Obviously some rules will have to made regarding the disposition of the corpse but that's just a technical exercise.

This would let the woman decide- maybe she started out wanting the kid but wasn't really cool with the cost and by age 5 decided to abort/euthanize. She'd save tons of money doing it herself.
What better way to help poor women?
Besides the obvious safety concerns of do it yourself abortions, I like it.

Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2911222
02/09/19 06:24 PM
02/09/19 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

You and all your buddies only cry false analogy when you don't like the outcome of the analogy. I probably do it too. Nothing Is truly analogous if you add enough NUANCE!


Analogies don't have outcomes dumbass.

They're either false or they're not.

And fetus is not a "kid".


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911224
02/09/19 06:28 PM
02/09/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.



/Thread


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911225
02/09/19 06:30 PM
02/09/19 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.
How about this. Let's make it affordable for poor single moms by legalizing a womans right to perform her own abortion up until age 18. Obviously some rules will have to made regarding the disposition of the corpse but that's just a technical exercise.

This would let the woman decide- maybe she started out wanting the kid but wasn't really cool with the cost and by age 5 decided to abort/euthanize. She'd save tons of money doing it herself.
What better way to help poor women?
Besides the obvious safety concerns of do it yourself abortions, I like it.
Wait till the fetus born- mid wive's are a-plenty and cheaper than hospitals. Shoot the baby just after birth or maybe try it on for awhile and see if you like it. If you don't? Terminate and dispose of properly.


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911226
02/09/19 06:40 PM
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Nope, that would be the line.

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911230
02/09/19 06:59 PM
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What a sad start to a Saturday, 2019.
A buncha dudes here on thee erBB arguing about what happens inside a womans body.

Wear a condom,
or do not f**k that vagina if you do not want a woman to get pregnant + then have to watch her
decide if she will keep it. She has a few other ways of pleasin' you, a man, ya dig? wink

fish
Check this out, I read of it a looong time ago:
Condoms were bein' used waaay back before Jesus was around,
but I betcha that you knew of this already, right?

Quote:
First traces of condoms were found around 1350 BC in Egypt. Condom was composed of coloured linen soaked in olive oil.


Link: The contraceptive methods in ancient Egypt

So do you boyz who beee~itch about abortion ALWAYS wear 1?
Why are you bros gettin' chicks pregnant who might not wanna be a Mommy, chicks who do not want your baby + so they now have to face a tough decision? What thee f**k is wrong with you dudes???
Wear a condom. And get it snipped too. Cool?
cool

PS ~ This post is not addressed to StuAzole,
it's just what came up when I started to write it, ok?
Have your~self a great Saturday, you~all!
Latez, RW

Last edited by RWVBWL; 02/09/19 08:28 PM.
Re: Abortion [Re: FecalFace] #2911233
02/09/19 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

You and all your buddies only cry false analogy when you don't like the outcome of the analogy. I probably do it too. Nothing Is truly analogous if you add enough NUANCE!


Analogies don't have outcomes dumbass.

They're either false or they're not.

And fetus is not a "kid".

Whatever word games help you sleep at night....


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911250
02/09/19 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
[

That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.



The development of a nervous system in interesting as a benchmark. But it still comes back to how many cells does it take for it take to become a nervous system. At just a few days, nervous system cells begin forming what will become the brain. That's just a few days. So do you know how many brain cells are needed before it is human? I don't. So I'm back at, if you don't know if it is human life, you don't gamble.

Your second point is a numbers game. You will loose that one. For every mother who dies, there are 1000's of unborn babies who died.

If you want to save both lives, destigmatize giving a baby up for adoption. Give support to pregnant mothers.

I'll take baby steps. I can't save the world's problems. I can't save 30,000 pregnant mothers. (On the side, I wonder what makes up that number. How would safe abortion change that number.)

Let's just stay within our own borders. It's not our place to rule the world.

And using language like calling me vicious for questioning when life begins says a lot about your dogma. Question everything, always.



We know ALLOT about the central nervous system through the different trimesters.. There is no "mind", no self consciousness, no feelings no nothing at this point. It's no different than removing a brain tumor, wart or any other kind of human tissue. Ask somebody who knows biology.

-"Your second point is a numbers game. You will loose that one. For every mother who dies, there are 1000's of unborn babies who died"- Not sure what you're talking about here? Embryos being aborted each day? Numbers of sperm and eggs going down the drain each day? Your definition of a "babies" is obscene.. My wife has a spiral inserted into her vag. There's some crazy religious groups here that defines that as abortion and condemns it because technically sperm and egg meets before being ejected. It's kinda hard to argue anything rationally among these kind of people.

-"And using language like calling me vicious for questioning when life begins says a lot about your dogma. Question everything, always"-
I'm calling you vicious. It's a very mild response for an adult man who calls out young girls for being child murders choosing abortion after being raped by their fathers, brothers, cousins or what not. Or that dirt poor teenage girl who choose to cancel her pregnancy knowing that the child would grow up without any basic resources, and in poverty.

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911251
02/09/19 08:09 PM
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How do you guys feel about autophagy?


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911255
02/09/19 08:22 PM
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I feel like everysurfr's post requires some more specifics...

to ovrevik's point...an embryo at 6 week is not the same as an embryo
at 24 weeks.

also, and possibly more importantly, if you post LOOSE instead of LOSE
one more time I am going to go abort so many fkn babies.

FFS man...


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911257
02/09/19 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
I feel like everysurfr's post requires some more specifics...

to ovrevik's point...an embryo at 6 week is not the same as an embryo
at 24 weeks.

also, and possibly more importantly, if you post LOOSE instead of LOSE
one more time I am going to go abort so many fkn babies.

FFS man...
roflmao


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911261
02/09/19 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
I feel like everysurfr's post requires some more specifics...

to ovrevik's point...an embryo at 6 week is not the same as an embryo
at 24 weeks.

also, and possibly more importantly, if you post LOOSE instead of LOSE
one more time I am going to go abort so many fkn babies.

FFS man...


He doesn't know when cells become a kid; therefor there should be no abortion.

He's yet to hear a logical challenge against this line of reasoning. monkey


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911266
02/09/19 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
I feel like everysurfr's post requires some more specifics...

to ovrevik's point...an embryo at 6 week is not the same as an embryo
at 24 weeks.

also, and possibly more importantly, if you post LOOSE instead of LOSE
one more time I am going to go abort so many fkn babies.

FFS man...


6 weeks= embryo
24 wees= fetus

smile

Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911294
02/09/19 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.


There are more people waiting to adopt babies than there are abortions.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911296
02/09/19 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
How do you guys feel about autophagy?



Ive heard it has some real health benefits.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911297
02/09/19 11:10 PM
02/09/19 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: afoaf
has anyone here had an abortion?


Every time I jerk off its half an abortion.


Isn't a period the other have of the abortion?


So I ate half an abortion?

Last edited by Duffy; 02/09/19 11:11 PM.

No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911298
02/09/19 11:17 PM
02/09/19 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.



30,000 women world wide.

30k-50k die from rabies.

30k a year just in the US from prostate cancer.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: Duffy] #2911299
02/09/19 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.


There are more people waiting to adopt babies than there are abortions.
Source?

Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911302
02/09/19 11:31 PM
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lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Oh.. almost forgot about this one; After witnessing my nephew being born, growing up along my own son the same age, and at the age of two-after learning to walk, speak and act like any other toddler-being taken away all those things piece by pieces until being reduced into a paralyzed state, i disagree. The amount of nerve paints, spasms, etc. that boy had to go through makes ALS seems like a walk in the park. The argument clearly hold up in this case unless your sadist.

Re: Abortion [Re: Duffy] #2911312
02/10/19 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.


There are more people waiting to adopt babies than there are abortions.


What do you attribute all the foster children to?

Do the kunts just want puppies?


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911313
02/10/19 12:29 AM
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I see attribute substitutions everywhere I look.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911331
02/10/19 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik


6 weeks= embryo
24 wees= fetus

smile


noted. thank you.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911336
02/10/19 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik


6 weeks= embryo
24 wees= fetus
Can't be sure = kid

smile



fxt


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911345
02/10/19 03:20 AM
02/10/19 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.
actually, we don't all agree that to kill is murder. do you believe in capital punishment? (i do, btw) but if killing is absolutely wrong, than so is capital punishment. and if you're ok with capital punishment, than you're ok with taking a life under certain circumstances. after that, the ethics just become situational.

and btw, i am reasonably certain that if men could get pregnant, we/society would not be having this discussion.


ideologically vacant
Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911348
02/10/19 03:36 AM
02/10/19 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: mundus
Who is going to pay for the unwanted children? We all know the loudest complainers about abortion don't want a dime of their tax dollars to help single moms or poor children.


There are more people waiting to adopt babies than there are abortions.
Source?


Im not in favor of making abortion illegal BTW, but here you go...

Quote:
There are no national statistics on how many people are waiting to adopt, but experts estimate it is somewhere between one and two million couples. Every year there are about 1.3 million abortions. Only 4% of women with unwanted pregnancies place their children through adoption.


https://adoptionnetwork.com/adoption-statistics

Quote:
In 2015, 638,169 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas.


https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

Last edited by Duffy; 02/10/19 03:38 AM.

No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: sussle] #2911349
02/10/19 03:39 AM
02/10/19 03:39 AM
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Quote:
i am reasonably certain that if men could get pregnant, we/society would not be having this discussion.


If men could get pregnant theyd be women.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911350
02/10/19 03:42 AM
02/10/19 03:42 AM
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Quote:
actually, we don't all agree that to kill is murder. do you believe in capital punishment? (i do, btw) but if killing is absolutely wrong, than so is capital punishment. and if you're ok with capital punishment, than you're ok with taking a life under certain circumstances. after that, the ethics just become situational.


I've posted here before. I believe that for capital crimes, the criminal gets a solitary cell, and three meals a day. The criminal will never leave that cell. The prisoner is given any religious text they request, in order for them to make their peace with their God. They are also given a noose hanging from the ceiling. At their choice, and at their timing, they may leave the living. Or they may stay in quiet reflection until the end of their days.

It is nobody else's choice to decide when an other is to die.


*** You are ignoring this user ***
That is why I hate them for their stupidity. They were so close to greatness and squandered it.
https://forum.surfer.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2934578&page=3
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911353
02/10/19 03:51 AM
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The noose is a nice touch.


"The world needs fewer arrogant pricks."
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911355
02/10/19 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr

~snip~
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.
~snip~

Ol' George,
yakin' about our invisible God:

Believe what ya want bro, ok?
bowdown
fish

Any of ya watch that vid I shared above?
I, like ol' George done did, well I wanna live, I wanna live for The Sun, o~ya!

Go surf! And if so inclined, go pray to your God,
just don't f**k any p*ssy with~out a condom on unless ya wanna be Daddy, ok?
jam_on


Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911357
02/10/19 04:26 AM
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One problem with hot-button issues like abortion is that both sides will not budge an inch, will never ever admit that the other side has even the tiniest bit of a valid argument, and will under no circumstances compromise.

I would propose a ban on abortion after 18 weeks, with an exception for if the mother's life is in danger if she carries to term (this is quite uncommon). Rape and incest victims can get their abortions before 18 weeks.

In return, I would have free contraception without a doctor's prescription or parent permission for everybody 16 and up. Just go into your local CVS or RiteAid and talk to the pharmacist. Free rubbers too, for those who choose not to use contraception.

Such a compromise will of course never, ever happen in either 'Murica or Amerika.


"The world needs fewer arrogant pricks."
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911375
02/10/19 06:01 AM
02/10/19 06:01 AM
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I think the same people who like to assign human traits to animals, call embryo "kid".





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Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911394
02/10/19 12:29 PM
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I think it's weird when people baby talk to dogs.

The worst thing you can do to a dog is infantilize it.

I see so many dysfunction master/dog relationships.

--Rescue dog mom out!


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911398
02/10/19 12:56 PM
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West of the Atlantic. East of...
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The Virginia governor spoke honestly about the Democrat's position on abortion when Hillary had to LIE.




This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911476
02/10/19 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Quote:
actually, we don't all agree that to kill is murder. do you believe in capital punishment? (i do, btw) but if killing is absolutely wrong, than so is capital punishment. and if you're ok with capital punishment, than you're ok with taking a life under certain circumstances. after that, the ethics just become situational.


I've posted here before. I believe that for capital crimes, the criminal gets a solitary cell, and three meals a day. The criminal will never leave that cell. The prisoner is given any religious text they request, in order for them to make their peace with their God. They are also given a noose hanging from the ceiling. At their choice, and at their timing, they may leave the living. Or they may stay in quiet reflection until the end of their days.

It is nobody else's choice to decide when an other is to die.
+1 for consistency. re capital punishment, i'm fully in favor of it, because some people are predators who will always be a physical threat to their neighbors, community, and society...and removal of such a threat from the living is appropriate for any such predator. plus the recidivism rate amongst executed criminals is zero.

that being said, there should be a higher standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt to invoke capital punishment. but that's another thread.


ideologically vacant
Re: Abortion [Re: GromsDad] #2911492
02/10/19 06:18 PM
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another mischaracterization.

are you familiar with DNR orders?


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911514
02/10/19 07:01 PM
02/10/19 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I think it's weird when people baby talk to dogs.

The worst thing you can do to a dog is infantilize it.

I see so many dysfunction master/dog relationships.

--Rescue dog mom out!


It's cute and all and I do it because I love dogs but I'm at least aware it's stupid and would not dress dogs in baby princess costumes.



"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911568
02/10/19 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.


Pelampung Di Bawah Kursi Anda
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911620
02/10/19 09:25 PM
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Re: Abortion [Re: drunjk] #2911621
02/10/19 09:26 PM
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roflmao


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Abortion [Re: etmo] #2911676
02/10/19 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: etmo
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.


It's mostly semantics, but "overrule" is not the right term for what you're describing. The Casey court expressly affirmed the central holding in Roe....that a woman has a right to control her own reproductive system. It did, however, change the prescribed approach for evaluating limits on that right. The difference is subtle, but it matters. It means that Roe remains strong precedent and it's central holding has never been disturbed.

Ultimately, none of it really matters though. Both sides - whether so-called originalists or not - use their view to to fit their agenda. If the growing conservative block has balls they'll do what they've always wanted and overturn Roe explicitly. But they don't. So, absent some major interference from Roberts, they'll chip away at Roe's protections until they are meaningless. States will most likely retain the right to craft their own legislation and mostly the poor and destitute will suffer. Life will go on undisturbed for everyone on this message board....until maybe it doesn't. Then - when one our 15 year old daughters comes home devastated because she made a mistake - maybe one of us will get a real test of our beliefs on this issue. Until then I think I'll reserve judgement and leave it to the women who will actually deal with the moral and ethical consequences of making that choice. shrug


"I love it when people who are supposed to be surfers.....posting on a surfing forum.....don't know the difference between stoke and stock." - GromsDad
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Re: Abortion [Re: sizzld1] #2911767
02/11/19 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: sizzld1

~snip~
Then - when one our 15 year old daughters comes home devastated because she made a mistake - maybe one of us will get a real test of our beliefs on this issue. Until then I think I'll reserve judgement and leave it to the women who will actually deal with the moral and ethical consequences of making that choice. shrug

Good evening sir~s!
With due respect to you guys who are Fathers, are Dads, I'd like to ask you this, ok?
If you are anti~abortion, will you provide your daughter, who might be coming of age,
with female birth control + condoms also after you have had the birds+thee bees talk with her?
Or just hope + pray that she does not get pregnant when she starts to like her sexuality,
and the boyz who know her, or thee ol' perv's like Donnie Trump, do too?

I ask you Dads of this,
for a looong time ago a young surfer girl I knew, from DogTown, still goin' to Samo High School.
once showed me her 10+ condoms, still connected like a buncha lotto tickets, that she had stashed
in her car parked in front of thee surf~shop. Months later, she told me she had used 'em all.
Thee youth will always continue to, well, you know what...
You bro's ready, ready to be Grandpa?
dancing


Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911830
02/11/19 01:21 PM
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Girls get to kill their babies.

Some guys don't like this.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911909
02/11/19 05:53 PM
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If you gave truth serum to the right wing abortion haters they would admit they could give 2 shits, just a cudgel to beat the other side with.

Re: Abortion [Re: mundus] #2911912
02/11/19 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: mundus
If you gave truth serum to the right wing abortion haters they would admit they could give 2 shits, just a cudgel to beat the other side with.


I bet GrossDad would have aborted RBG.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911920
02/11/19 06:04 PM
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It's been proven over and over again. Just like the most vocal Republicans against gay people wind up toe-tapping in bathroom stalls, the biggest opponents of abortion change their tune real fvcking quick when shit hits the fan in their personal lives.


"I love it when people who are supposed to be surfers.....posting on a surfing forum.....don't know the difference between stoke and stock." - GromsDad
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Re: Abortion [Re: sizzld1] #2911921
02/11/19 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: sizzld1
It's been proven over and over again. Just like the most vocal Republicans against gay people wind up toe-tapping in bathroom stalls, the biggest opponents of abortion change their tune real fvcking quick when shit hits the fan in their personal lives.
Yep notice how when the anti abortion family values republicans change their tune when they knock up their mistresses.

Re: Abortion [Re: etmo] #2911962
02/11/19 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: etmo
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.


Incorrect legal analysis on the "overturning" part. Later holdings "explain" or "expand" or "supersede" or all sorts of other things, but a case isn't overturned unless the court specifically holds as such. If you have access to Shepards, you can see what I mean. Or, you can read pretty much any legal brief on abortion and tell me that Roe isn't still considered (I won't wait).

And no holding by the Court is "repealed" - that's not a term used re case law (mainly because SCOTUS doesn't make "law" it just rules on laws and issues before it). Legislatures make laws which can be repealed, courts interpret laws.

And while I sorta agree (hope) that Roberts may be the sane one in the room, I'm not convinced yet.


Bock you
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911988
02/11/19 07:15 PM
02/11/19 07:15 PM
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FYI, I'm pretty sure etmo said his work is in Constitutional Law


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: Abortion [Re: ifallalot] #2912017
02/11/19 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
FYI, I'm pretty sure etmo said his work is in Constitutional Law


Maybe, but his analysis is still seriously flawed.


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