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#2911398 - 02/10/19 07:56 AM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
GromsDad Offline
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The Virginia governor spoke honestly about the Democrat's position on abortion when Hillary had to LIE.


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#2911476 - 02/10/19 12:49 PM Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr]
sussle Offline
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Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 1867
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Quote:
actually, we don't all agree that to kill is murder. do you believe in capital punishment? (i do, btw) but if killing is absolutely wrong, than so is capital punishment. and if you're ok with capital punishment, than you're ok with taking a life under certain circumstances. after that, the ethics just become situational.


I've posted here before. I believe that for capital crimes, the criminal gets a solitary cell, and three meals a day. The criminal will never leave that cell. The prisoner is given any religious text they request, in order for them to make their peace with their God. They are also given a noose hanging from the ceiling. At their choice, and at their timing, they may leave the living. Or they may stay in quiet reflection until the end of their days.

It is nobody else's choice to decide when an other is to die.
+1 for consistency. re capital punishment, i'm fully in favor of it, because some people are predators who will always be a physical threat to their neighbors, community, and society...and removal of such a threat from the living is appropriate for any such predator. plus the recidivism rate amongst executed criminals is zero.

that being said, there should be a higher standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt to invoke capital punishment. but that's another thread.
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#2911492 - 02/10/19 01:18 PM Re: Abortion [Re: GromsDad]
afoaf Offline
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another mischaracterization.

are you familiar with DNR orders?
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#2911514 - 02/10/19 02:01 PM Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax]
FecalFace Online   happy
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
I think it's weird when people baby talk to dogs.

The worst thing you can do to a dog is infantilize it.

I see so many dysfunction master/dog relationships.

--Rescue dog mom out!


It's cute and all and I do it because I love dogs but I'm at least aware it's stupid and would not dress dogs in baby princess costumes.

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#2911568 - 02/10/19 03:24 PM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
etmo Offline
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.
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#2911620 - 02/10/19 04:25 PM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
drunjk Offline
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#2911621 - 02/10/19 04:26 PM Re: Abortion [Re: drunjk]
FecalFace Online   happy
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roflmao
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#2911676 - 02/10/19 06:20 PM Re: Abortion [Re: etmo]
sizzld1 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: etmo
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.


It's mostly semantics, but "overrule" is not the right term for what you're describing. The Casey court expressly affirmed the central holding in Roe....that a woman has a right to control her own reproductive system. It did, however, change the prescribed approach for evaluating limits on that right. The difference is subtle, but it matters. It means that Roe remains strong precedent and it's central holding has never been disturbed.

Ultimately, none of it really matters though. Both sides - whether so-called originalists or not - use their view to to fit their agenda. If the growing conservative block has balls they'll do what they've always wanted and overturn Roe explicitly. But they don't. So, absent some major interference from Roberts, they'll chip away at Roe's protections until they are meaningless. States will most likely retain the right to craft their own legislation and mostly the poor and destitute will suffer. Life will go on undisturbed for everyone on this message board....until maybe it doesn't. Then - when one our 15 year old daughters comes home devastated because she made a mistake - maybe one of us will get a real test of our beliefs on this issue. Until then I think I'll reserve judgement and leave it to the women who will actually deal with the moral and ethical consequences of making that choice. shrug
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#2911767 - 02/10/19 10:07 PM Re: Abortion [Re: sizzld1]
RWVBWL Offline
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Originally Posted By: sizzld1

~snip~
Then - when one our 15 year old daughters comes home devastated because she made a mistake - maybe one of us will get a real test of our beliefs on this issue. Until then I think I'll reserve judgement and leave it to the women who will actually deal with the moral and ethical consequences of making that choice. shrug

Good evening sir~s!
With due respect to you guys who are Fathers, are Dads, I'd like to ask you this, ok?
If you are anti~abortion, will you provide your daughter, who might be coming of age,
with female birth control + condoms also after you have had the birds+thee bees talk with her?
Or just hope + pray that she does not get pregnant when she starts to like her sexuality,
and the boyz who know her, or thee ol' perv's like Donnie Trump, do too?

I ask you Dads of this,
for a looong time ago a young surfer girl I knew, from DogTown, still goin' to Samo High School.
once showed me her 10+ condoms, still connected like a buncha lotto tickets, that she had stashed
in her car parked in front of thee surf~shop. Months later, she told me she had used 'em all.
Thee youth will always continue to, well, you know what...
You bro's ready, ready to be Grandpa?
dancing


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#2911830 - 02/11/19 08:21 AM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
Autoprax Offline
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Girls get to kill their babies.

Some guys don't like this.
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#2911909 - 02/11/19 12:53 PM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
mundus Offline
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Registered: 02/25/18
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If you gave truth serum to the right wing abortion haters they would admit they could give 2 shits, just a cudgel to beat the other side with.

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#2911912 - 02/11/19 12:56 PM Re: Abortion [Re: mundus]
FecalFace Online   happy
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Originally Posted By: mundus
If you gave truth serum to the right wing abortion haters they would admit they could give 2 shits, just a cudgel to beat the other side with.


I bet GrossDad would have aborted RBG.
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#2911920 - 02/11/19 01:04 PM Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole]
sizzld1 Online   content
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Registered: 03/31/09
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It's been proven over and over again. Just like the most vocal Republicans against gay people wind up toe-tapping in bathroom stalls, the biggest opponents of abortion change their tune real fvcking quick when shit hits the fan in their personal lives.
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#2911921 - 02/11/19 01:09 PM Re: Abortion [Re: sizzld1]
mundus Offline
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Registered: 02/25/18
Posts: 3130
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
It's been proven over and over again. Just like the most vocal Republicans against gay people wind up toe-tapping in bathroom stalls, the biggest opponents of abortion change their tune real fvcking quick when shit hits the fan in their personal lives.
Yep notice how when the anti abortion family values republicans change their tune when they knock up their mistresses.

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#2911962 - 02/11/19 01:50 PM Re: Abortion [Re: etmo]
StuAzole Online   content
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Registered: 01/22/16
Posts: 12870
Originally Posted By: etmo
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W,..


The Court already has overturned Roe...about 27 years ago. In our system of law, a newer law which covers the same ground as an older law implicitly repeals the older law. It even has a sexy Latin catch-phrase for mass-market appeal: "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".

The same is true for newer vs older legal decisions -- a more recent decision covering the same ground implicitly overturns the older decision.

Thus, the 1992 decision in Casey overturned Roe, and eliminated Roe's trimester system, replacing it with the current "undue burden" standard.

As for overturning Casey and returning control over the legality of abortion to the States / Congress, there is some support, but at this point it's considered very unlikely that there exists sufficient support within the Court to garner 5 votes. After all, Roberts just sided with the "liberals" on the Court to halt implementation of a recent LA law while it works it's way through the legal system.


Incorrect legal analysis on the "overturning" part. Later holdings "explain" or "expand" or "supersede" or all sorts of other things, but a case isn't overturned unless the court specifically holds as such. If you have access to Shepards, you can see what I mean. Or, you can read pretty much any legal brief on abortion and tell me that Roe isn't still considered (I won't wait).

And no holding by the Court is "repealed" - that's not a term used re case law (mainly because SCOTUS doesn't make "law" it just rules on laws and issues before it). Legislatures make laws which can be repealed, courts interpret laws.

And while I sorta agree (hope) that Roberts may be the sane one in the room, I'm not convinced yet.
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