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Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911088
02/09/19 09:04 AM
02/09/19 09:04 AM
Joined: May 2011
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.

I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.

Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911090
02/09/19 09:40 AM
02/09/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 922
Los Angeles~California!
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You boyz who might bitch about abortion should ALWAYS, Always, always shoot your wad into a vagina. Do you? If not, you are a killer, preventing your lovers pregnancy to happen:

Do Not Pull Out! Why are you killing your un~born lil' kids before they even have a chance?


PS ~ I hope too that you boyz do not use birth control.
No condoms. No snippie~snippie, give your girl what she biologically needs, wants, every~time.
That is what her vagina is for, for makin' babies, right? Give it to her!

Last edited by RWVBWL; 02/09/19 10:23 AM.
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911091
02/09/19 09:46 AM
02/09/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
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American women aren't lemmings.
They won't stand for it.

Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911106
02/09/19 12:43 PM
02/09/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 30,046
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr


My argument is
Quote:
You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.


Yeah, I get it. That's not an argument.

It's a conclusion without a premise using slanted vocabulary..

You're not as smart as you think you are.

You might want to try having less certainty in your life.

Fag


incompetence is preferable to malice.
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911135
02/09/19 03:00 PM
02/09/19 03:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,065
Santa Barbara County
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Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 03:08 PM.
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911138
02/09/19 03:05 PM
02/09/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,065
Santa Barbara County
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax


You're not as smart as you think you are.

You might want to try having less certainty in your life.

Fag


I don't think I'm anything special. There's some stuff I know, and lots that I don't. I just seem smart, because if i don't know something, i keep quiet. I might be really stupid, but i just don't let anyone know. (This is your comedy set up. Knock it out of the park )

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should take that risk.

Last edited by everysurfr; 02/09/19 03:13 PM.

*** You are ignoring this user ***
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911143
02/09/19 03:20 PM
02/09/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 8,230
Your mom�s house
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Your mom�s house
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W, what would a world where life legally begins at conception look like from an enforcement perspective?

Around 50% of all pregnancies self-terminate, most before the mother even knows she's pregnant.

Will we need special investigative units to look into every failed pregnancy to be sure there was foul play?

Could moms who drink/smoke and miscarry be open to manslaughter charges?

Do pregnant women get a case worker assigned at their first OB/GYN appointment to make sure all goes according to plan?

I'm intrigued.





Your premise is false.

1. Roe will not be overturned.

2. Even if it was that doesnt make abortion illegal.


�No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn�

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: afoaf] #2911144
02/09/19 03:23 PM
02/09/19 03:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 8,230
Your mom�s house
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
has anyone here had an abortion?


Every time I jerk off its half an abortion.


�No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn�

- The Wasp
Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911145
02/09/19 03:23 PM
02/09/19 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 30,046
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should the that risk.


So you are saying that your ignorance should dictate policy for female reproduction?


incompetence is preferable to malice.
Re: Abortion [Re: Duffy] #2911147
02/09/19 03:24 PM
02/09/19 03:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 30,046
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Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: afoaf
has anyone here had an abortion?


Every time I jerk off its half an abortion.


Isn't a period the other have of the abortion?


incompetence is preferable to malice.
Re: Abortion [Re: Autoprax] #2911149
02/09/19 03:26 PM
02/09/19 03:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,947
In Gods Country
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: everysurfr

I don't know when a bunch of baby cells becomes a baby. I don't think we should the that risk.


So you are saying that your ignorance should dictate policy for female reproduction?

Our ignorance would be more accurate. Either way, if you punch a pregnant mommy in the tummy and what's inside dies, it's murder.


...and we're not all that ignorant on this subject.

Last edited by CharmingSophisticate; 02/09/19 03:28 PM. Reason: Science

"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: Abortion [Re: StuAzole] #2911155
02/09/19 03:56 PM
02/09/19 03:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,604
Body of Christ, Texas
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Originally Posted By: StuAzole
given the court is eventually going to overturn R v W, what would a world where life legally begins at conception look like from an enforcement perspective?

Around 50% of all pregnancies self-terminate, most before the mother even knows she's pregnant.

Will we need special investigative units to look into every failed pregnancy to be sure there was foul play?

Could moms who drink/smoke and miscarry be open to manslaughter charges?

Do pregnant women get a case worker assigned at their first OB/GYN appointment to make sure all goes according to plan?

I'm intrigued.





After the artificial womb becomes available, the state will become the ward of all unwanted offspring.

A penny for the anti-abortionist's thoughts?

Re: Abortion [Re: everysurfr] #2911167
02/09/19 04:57 PM
02/09/19 04:57 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,330
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ovrevik Offline
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Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.

Re: Abortion [Re: manbearpig] #2911170
02/09/19 05:01 PM
02/09/19 05:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57,278
HB, CA
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Originally Posted By: manbearpig
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.

No one is arguing with you because they can't deny what you're saying

I thought you hated false analogies?

You and all your buddies only cry false analogy when you don't like the outcome of the analogy. I probably do it too. Nothing Is truly analogous if you add enough NUANCE!


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
Re: Abortion [Re: ovrevik] #2911171
02/09/19 05:03 PM
02/09/19 05:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 57,278
HB, CA
I
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Duke status
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Joined: Dec 2008
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HB, CA
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
Originally Posted By: ovrevik
Originally Posted By: everysurfr
How about this.

Until you know the answer, the default is the kid is alive and human.

You demolish buildings until you KNOW there are no people alive inside.

You don't drive down the road until you KNOW there are no people standing in it.

You don't perform a D&C until you KNOW the kid isn't alive.

I don't want to hear about "it's the mother's body" because it isn't. It's the kids body getting killed.

No abortion unless the kid isn't viable, or the mother's life is in danger.

I've never heard a rational argument to disagree with this.

Engage me.


Rape
Underage pregnancies
Financial situation
Single parent situation
Education
Physically ill mother
Mentally ill mother
Hereditary diseases
Down syndrome
cerebral pareses
Crabs disease
Leukodystrophys
..etc..etc..etc..

lots of reasons why life is hard. But none of them would hold up against a person who is already born. We don't kill poor, diseased, downtrodden adults, so the same rule applies to the unborn.

Do you keep all your sperm in a freezer after you jerk off? They are living cells as well you know. Like a zygote or embryo, they can't survive outside your body.
Comparing an abortion, which is technically removing a bunch of cells that has no possibility for further growth outside the womb, to killing a child is not just crazy- It's extremely disrespectful to women all over the world who had to undergo abortion for various reasons.
These is getting closer to a rational reasons, but still doesn't hold up. There are many examples of people in reliance on others for survival. We don't allow them to be cut off.
A polio sufferer in an iron lung would not survive if the power was turned off.

Your next point comparing groups of cells being equal to an unborn baby. In every example, if left alone, those cells would never become a human. No matter what, sperm cells die off in about a week in your own body. A fertilized egg, once implanted in the mother, on the other hand, if left alone will become a baby.


I've NEVER heard a rational argument against abortion. But i don't buy into God, Allah or any of that crap either, and that's usually the reason behind all the anti abortion psychos.
God has nothing to do with this. I don't need God to tell me not to kick puppies either.

You haven't addressed my point. The one that nobody has ever answered for me. When is the exact moment that a fertilized egg becomes human? It is a grey transition.
At some point in the process, we all agree that to kill it is murder. But when is that moment? And if you are one second after that moment, you are a baby killer. And unless you know that answer, abortion is reckless.


That answer is not difficult-
First trimester- The nervous system isn't developed. This is a really safe place to draw a line. Free abortion in this period should be granted without any specific cause.

Second trimester- After week 22 it's possible to save premature babies (but ethically dilemma occurs here because of high premature birth defects). Abortion because of medical reasons should be granted in this period.

Third trimester- unless there's some serious underlying medical cause abortion should not be granted.

Calling women child murderers because of abortion shows you have no idea what you are're talking about.
It's not only vicious, but it's a dangerous attitude to have.
About 30 000 women dies every year because they don't have access to legal abortion clinics.


That 30,000 number seems extremely high, but otherwise I agree with the rest of your assertions about the trimester


My entire existence is a failed gotcha
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