REMINDER: Siteowner has no obligation to monitor the Forums. However, Siteowner reserves the right to review the Materials submitted to or posted on the Forums, and remove, delete, redact or otherwise modify such Materials, in its sole discretion and for any reason whatsoever, at any time and from time to time, without notice or further obligation to you. Siteowner has no obligation to display or post any Materials provided by you. Siteowner reserves the right to disclose, at any time and from time to time, any information or Materials that Siteowner deems necessary or appropriate to satisfy any applicable law, regulation, contract obligation, legal or dispute process or government request. To further read the rules and terms of agreement of this Forum, click here.

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 13 1 2 3 12 13
AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years #2909992
02/07/19 05:02 PM
02/07/19 05:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
C
casa_mugrienta Offline OP
Duke status
casa_mugrienta  Offline OP
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
Just a small part of the Green New Deal. roflmao

Discuss.


Q: Secret aspiration?
A: Buy Pezman's mag and turn it into a piece of crap.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2909995
02/07/19 05:04 PM
02/07/19 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Clearly this chick has never ridden Amtrak

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2909998
02/07/19 05:07 PM
02/07/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33,587
CA
S
stu dog Offline
Duke status
stu dog  Offline
Duke status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33,587
CA
I'm all for more rail. Lets first local. like tunneling under the Sepulveda Pass to put a rail line

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2909999
02/07/19 05:08 PM
02/07/19 05:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
C
casa_mugrienta Offline OP
Duke status
casa_mugrienta  Offline OP
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island


Q: Secret aspiration?
A: Buy Pezman's mag and turn it into a piece of crap.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2910005
02/07/19 05:10 PM
02/07/19 05:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
the rail system between philly, NY, Boston, and down to DC was a great
experience. Japan was next level.

I really wish California had a better solution....right now I have to drive an
hour out of the southbay to get on a train...I could already be halfway down
to san diego before I even start moving on the train which also travels
slower than a vehicle (and has a less direct route).

jet fuel is a potent pollutant and the fuel consumption of all the supporting
vehicles at the airports cumulatively add up to a lot.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910006
02/07/19 05:11 PM
02/07/19 05:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
I think more cars are the answer.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910015
02/07/19 05:13 PM
02/07/19 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
M
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
manbearpig  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
M

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
Amtrak sucks ass. Way overpriced.

Is she referring to a rail system akin to Japans bullet train?

Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.

Last edited by manbearpig; 02/07/19 05:14 PM.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910022
02/07/19 05:21 PM
02/07/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Originally Posted By: afoaf
the rail system between philly, NY, Boston, and down to DC was a great
experience. Japan was next level.

I really wish California had a better solution....right now I have to drive an
hour out of the southbay to get on a train...I could already be halfway down
to san diego before I even start moving on the train which also travels
slower than a vehicle (and has a less direct route).

jet fuel is a potent pollutant and the fuel consumption of all the supporting
vehicles at the airports cumulatively add up to a lot.


Train is about as fast as driving in the northeast

It makes a lot of stops

Its better in that you can do work or drink beer while en route

Train is definitely my preferred means of travel but its not a time saver

The system is also decrepit

Signals dont work when its too hot or too cold

So there are way more delays than youd think

And its expensive

Its shocking how bad it is compared to places like Switzerland

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910027
02/07/19 05:28 PM
02/07/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
The Acela
Originally Posted By: afoaf
the rail system between philly, NY, Boston, and down to DC was a great
experience. Japan was next level.

I really wish California had a better solution....right now I have to drive an
hour out of the southbay to get on a train...I could already be halfway down
to san diego before I even start moving on the train which also travels
slower than a vehicle (and has a less direct route).

jet fuel is a potent pollutant and the fuel consumption of all the supporting
vehicles at the airports cumulatively add up to a lot.
Supposedly the Acela line is the only rail route in the U.S. that is more/less self-sufficient. Obviously because of the amount of traffic between the populations centers it serves.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910034
02/07/19 05:32 PM
02/07/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
and once again, the young rep from the Bronx is getting the (R) all hot and bothered.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: manbearpig] #2910067
02/07/19 06:01 PM
02/07/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
C
casa_mugrienta Offline OP
Duke status
casa_mugrienta  Offline OP
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


Q: Secret aspiration?
A: Buy Pezman's mag and turn it into a piece of crap.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910070
02/07/19 06:03 PM
02/07/19 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Quote:
and once again, the young rep from the Bronx is getting the (R) all hot and bothered.


You have to admit, she makes for a great albatross to hang around the DNCs neck.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910082
02/07/19 06:14 PM
02/07/19 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33,587
CA
S
stu dog Offline
Duke status
stu dog  Offline
Duke status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 33,587
CA
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Quote:
and once again, the young rep from the Bronx is getting the (R) all hot and bothered.


You have to admit, she makes for a great albatross to hang around the DNCs neck.


They sad that about Nancy too


Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: stu dog] #2910085
02/07/19 06:17 PM
02/07/19 06:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
And Trump


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910106
02/07/19 06:28 PM
02/07/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Is it reusing existing lines or are we going to have to repeat the whole 19th Century again?

This is a problem that doesn't need to be fixed


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910118
02/07/19 06:37 PM
02/07/19 06:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary

you can kennit the difference, right?


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910134
02/07/19 06:48 PM
02/07/19 06:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
C
casa_mugrienta Offline OP
Duke status
casa_mugrienta  Offline OP
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary


GOOD POINT.

I mean, lots of people are still moving west by wagon train.

Rail and air travel never replaced anything I guess! Just made it so it's "not necessary."






Q: Secret aspiration?
A: Buy Pezman's mag and turn it into a piece of crap.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910138
02/07/19 06:53 PM
02/07/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
it is not necessary for me to drive to the store

I can ride my bike

I can walk

however, walking and riding my bike have not replaced driving

do you really think wagon train is a comparable analogy to high speed rail?

if you want to keep it contemporary, you could acknowledge that people
still drive vehicles cross country.



Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910140
02/07/19 06:56 PM
02/07/19 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Air and Bus routes are scalable and flexible. Rail isn't.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910147
02/07/19 07:01 PM
02/07/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
I would love it if mass transit was consistent, fast, and reliable. I'd use it all the time.

I remember watching that one Anthony Bourdain show where he was in Myanmar (?) with the ultra-slow, bouncy, rickety train. I thought, "Aha! That's where San Diego bought the Coaster trains from!"

For trains in urban environments, you need multiple stops, they need to be consistent (i.e. every 10 minutes from 5:30 AM to 3:30 AM, especially in areas where nightlife exists), and it has to go fast, much faster than what you would be driving on the freeway. The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.

LA to SF in 2 hours? That would work. But you can't stop in every pissant burg (i.e. Merced, Pixley, etc) on the way through the central valley. Besides, how many people would be going from Lost Hills to SF? Three?

LA to Vegas makes a hell of a lot more sense although never happen because the Indian Casino lobby (aka mafia) would kneecap the hell out of people for even suggesting that train. Pala, Rincon, those casinos make Circus Circus in Vegas look like Monte Carlo and their buffets make Arby's look awesome by comparison. No one would go to them, not if Vegas was an hour and a half away by train with booze on board.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910153
02/07/19 07:10 PM
02/07/19 07:10 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
M
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
manbearpig  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
M

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary


GOOD POINT.

I mean, lots of people are still moving west by wagon train.

Rail and air travel never replaced anything I guess! Just made it so it's "not necessary."





You cant do reading comprehension.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: manbearpig] #2910157
02/07/19 07:14 PM
02/07/19 07:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
arguing against the person, not the point.

the pattern repeats.

it's strange.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910164
02/07/19 07:20 PM
02/07/19 07:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Just a small part of the Green New Deal. roflmao

Discuss.


We start as soon as the high speed rail in California is finished.

Cant wait to take a train to Hawaii.

Also in the plan to upgrade ALL buildings in the country to be energy efficient. Do they have any idea how much energy it will take to do that (and build a rail system to replace air travel)?


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910168
02/07/19 07:21 PM
02/07/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary

you can kennit the difference, right?


Replace, make unnecessary...

Either way, absurd.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910172
02/07/19 07:24 PM
02/07/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
R
rice Offline
Duke status
rice  Offline
Duke status
**
R

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Duffy] #2910174
02/07/19 07:27 PM
02/07/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
China is investing pretty heavily in this

other developed (albeit geographically smaller) nations have it

nowhere does she say that rail will supplant air

claiming so is..absurd.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910185
02/07/19 07:40 PM
02/07/19 07:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Looks like Doc Thompson really hated the idea of trains - so much so he tried to tackle one:

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/co...by-amtrak-train


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910195
02/07/19 07:47 PM
02/07/19 07:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2


That's one way to do it.

Better yet, a large percentage of non-customer service jobs (fast-food workers, bellhops, etc.) could easily be done by telecommuting. Why more companies don't encourage this is beyond me. Increased productivity (by a LONG shot), less distractions, less overhead (no need to lease office space), less pollution, etc. etc. Plus, for those with kids in school, after-school programs, sports, etc., it makes it so much easier so you don't have to drive back and forth to pick them up from one place, drop them off somewhere else, while trying to race to and from work.

Now all that unused office space? Sounds like an opportunity to ease the housing crisis.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910198
02/07/19 07:49 PM
02/07/19 07:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2


That's one way to do it.

Better yet, a large percentage of non-customer service jobs (fast-food workers, bellhops, etc.) could easily be done by telecommuting. Why more companies don't encourage this is beyond me. Increased productivity (by a LONG shot), less distractions, less overhead (no need to lease office space), less pollution, etc. etc. Plus, for those with kids in school, after-school programs, sports, etc., it makes it so much easier so you don't have to drive back and forth to pick them up from one place, drop them off somewhere else, while trying to race to and from work.

Now all that unused office space? Sounds like an opportunity to ease the housing crisis.


Which brings us back to the "just work closer to home" argument everyone thinks is so impossible. If you don't want to commute, work where you live, or go live where you work. Easy.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Duffy] #2910199
02/07/19 07:50 PM
02/07/19 07:50 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
M
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
manbearpig  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
M

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary

you can kennit the difference, right?


Replace, make unnecessary...

Either way, absurd.

How is an additional way to travel absurd? Both air and train have their issues, everyone knows that.

Think about the process it takes to just get to the plane vs just getting to the train, price difference and frequency; train wins all of those. NO ONE is saying to replace, its simply another option.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910200
02/07/19 07:50 PM
02/07/19 07:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: afoaf
it is not necessary for me to drive to the store

I can ride my bike

I can walk

however, walking and riding my bike have not replaced driving

do you really think wagon train is a comparable analogy to high speed rail?

if you want to keep it contemporary, you could acknowledge that people
still drive vehicles cross country.


A comparable analogy is rail from a century or a century and a half ago. Personal vehicles is not comparable either


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910201
02/07/19 07:50 PM
02/07/19 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2


I'll bet it would take a higher tax than that to bring passenger rail anywhere near feasible in Calif.

The thing about bus and air travel is that those companies can already break even or clear a profit. That'll never happen with rail anywhere outside of the northeast corridor.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910202
02/07/19 07:51 PM
02/07/19 07:51 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
M
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
manbearpig  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
M

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
afoafs point is spot on foreheadslap

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910203
02/07/19 07:51 PM
02/07/19 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2


That's one way to do it.

Better yet, a large percentage of non-customer service jobs (fast-food workers, bellhops, etc.) could easily be done by telecommuting. Why more companies don't encourage this is beyond me. Increased productivity (by a LONG shot), less distractions, less overhead (no need to lease office space), less pollution, etc. etc. Plus, for those with kids in school, after-school programs, sports, etc., it makes it so much easier so you don't have to drive back and forth to pick them up from one place, drop them off somewhere else, while trying to race to and from work.

Now all that unused office space? Sounds like an opportunity to ease the housing crisis.


Which brings us back to the "just work closer to home" argument everyone thinks is so impossible. If you don't want to commute, work where you live, or go live where you work. Easy.


I take it you are being sarcastic.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910205
02/07/19 07:51 PM
02/07/19 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910206
02/07/19 07:52 PM
02/07/19 07:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910209
02/07/19 07:54 PM
02/07/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


It's not price fixing, its social engineering. No different than heavy taxes on smokes.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910211
02/07/19 07:56 PM
02/07/19 07:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


It's not price fixing, its social engineering. No different than heavy taxes on smokes.

Also idiotic

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/cigarette-smuggling-new-york-_n_5041823.html

https://money.cnn.com/2013/01/10/news/companies/cigarette-tax-new-york/index.html

https://publicintegrity.org/health/big-tobaccos-new-york-black-market/

"I CAN'T BREATHE"


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910213
02/07/19 07:59 PM
02/07/19 07:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


Can't afford to live where I work and there are no jobs where I live, especially since what I do is pretty specialized.

Telecommuting would solve this problem quite well, wouldn't it? Most people could literally work where they live.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910217
02/07/19 08:05 PM
02/07/19 08:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


It's not price fixing, its social engineering. No different than heavy taxes on smokes.

Also idiotic

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/cigarette-smuggling-new-york-_n_5041823.html

https://money.cnn.com/2013/01/10/news/companies/cigarette-tax-new-york/index.html

https://publicintegrity.org/health/big-tobaccos-new-york-black-market/

"I CAN'T BREATHE"


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910218
02/07/19 08:05 PM
02/07/19 08:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


Can't afford to live where I work and there are no jobs where I live, especially since what I do is pretty specialized.

Telecommuting would solve this problem quite well, wouldn't it? Most people could literally work where they live.


What do you mean you can't afford to live where you work?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910221
02/07/19 08:15 PM
02/07/19 08:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


Can't afford to live where I work and there are no jobs where I live, especially since what I do is pretty specialized.

Telecommuting would solve this problem quite well, wouldn't it? Most people could literally work where they live.


What do you mean you can't afford to live where you work?


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910227
02/07/19 08:24 PM
02/07/19 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910233
02/07/19 08:37 PM
02/07/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


There is very little I can afford where I work which would not be a massive down-grade from where I live. Yes, I can afford a one-bedroom apartment with a third the square footage (although it would be only slightly less than my current mortgage) near where I work but with a family of 4, it would not be feasible at all. If it was just me, sure, but with a family of 4? Not a chance.

I am not the only one in this situation at all. In fact, I am better off than most. What about people who are only making, say, $40K/year? They can probably afford a public storage container in Irvine but that's about it. Even 600 ft2 studios go for almost $2K/month. They're commuting from Inland Empire; no other way around it.

If gas got that expensive, still would probably be worth driving in as it would be cheaper than living where I worked.

You do raise an interesting point. Let's say gas does go that high. I think it would be fair at that point to write off gas receipts and automotive wear and tear as a business-related expense. thought


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910236
02/07/19 08:39 PM
02/07/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
T
the janitor Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
the janitor  Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**
T

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
this seems totally feasible:

"A guaranteed job "with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations and retirement security" for every American"

I seem to recall hearing that before somewhere...

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910239
02/07/19 08:49 PM
02/07/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
They should start by fixing existing mass transit systems

NYC is a shitshow

Boston is a shitshow

It will take many billions of $ to bring the existing systems in line with foreign counterparts

Plus these cities have density that is conducive to rail

Western cities generally dont

The money would be better spent elsewhere

Its not like there isnt an assload of existing infrastructure that doesnt need attention

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910241
02/07/19 08:51 PM
02/07/19 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


There is very little I can afford where I work which would not be a massive down-grade from where I live. Yes, I can afford a one-bedroom apartment with a third the square footage (although it would be only slightly less than my current mortgage) near where I work but with a family of 4, it would not be feasible at all. If it was just me, sure, but with a family of 4? Not a chance.

I am not the only one in this situation at all. In fact, I am better off than most. What about people who are only making, say, $40K/year? They can probably afford a public storage container in Irvine but that's about it. Even 600 ft2 studios go for almost $2K/month. They're commuting from Inland Empire; no other way around it.

If gas got that expensive, still would probably be worth driving in as it would be cheaper than living where I worked.

You do raise an interesting point. Let's say gas does go that high. I think it would be fair at that point to write off gas receipts and automotive wear and tear as a business-related expense. thought


You could live within biking distance of work, and pretend you live in Paris like the really evolved humans.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910246
02/07/19 08:57 PM
02/07/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


There is very little I can afford where I work which would not be a massive down-grade from where I live. Yes, I can afford a one-bedroom apartment with a third the square footage (although it would be only slightly less than my current mortgage) near where I work but with a family of 4, it would not be feasible at all. If it was just me, sure, but with a family of 4? Not a chance.

I am not the only one in this situation at all. In fact, I am better off than most. What about people who are only making, say, $40K/year? They can probably afford a public storage container in Irvine but that's about it. Even 600 ft2 studios go for almost $2K/month. They're commuting from Inland Empire; no other way around it.

If gas got that expensive, still would probably be worth driving in as it would be cheaper than living where I worked.

You do raise an interesting point. Let's say gas does go that high. I think it would be fair at that point to write off gas receipts and automotive wear and tear as a business-related expense. thought


You could live within biking distance of work, and pretend you live in Paris like the really evolved humans.


There is that option. It is only about 17 miles each way so could even walk it, which would take ~4.5 hours. Actually, that would kind of be nice. thought My weed expenses would go up though. roflmao


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910255
02/07/19 09:11 PM
02/07/19 09:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
R
rice Offline
Duke status
rice  Offline
Duke status
**
R

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
Originally Posted By: Kento
It is only about 17 miles each way so could even walk it, which would take ~4.5 hours.


Walking is silly.

17 miles by bike is only an hour. shrug

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910263
02/07/19 09:20 PM
02/07/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento
It is only about 17 miles each way so could even walk it, which would take ~4.5 hours.


Walking is silly.

17 miles by bike is only an hour. shrug


The sidewalk is far safer than the bike lanes.

I think forward observers in Vietnam War fresh off the chopper had a longer life expectancy than road bicyclists in Central OC.

I really like the idea of distracted driving due to cell phone use being treated the exact same as a DUI but with the added bonus of losing your cell phone and being blacklisted from every service provider for a year.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910265
02/07/19 09:22 PM
02/07/19 09:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
R
rice Offline
Duke status
rice  Offline
Duke status
**
R

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,442
CA
Originally Posted By: Kento

I think forward observers in Vietnam War fresh off the chopper had a longer life expectancy than road bicyclists in Central OC.


Yeah, I get it.

Originally Posted By: Kento
I really like the idea of distracted driving due to cell phone use being treated the exact same as a DUI but with the added bonus of losing your cell phone and being blacklisted from every service provider for a year.


smile2

Or life in prison?

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910268
02/07/19 09:27 PM
02/07/19 09:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento

I think forward observers in Vietnam War fresh off the chopper had a longer life expectancy than road bicyclists in Central OC.


Yeah, I get it.

Originally Posted By: Kento
I really like the idea of distracted driving due to cell phone use being treated the exact same as a DUI but with the added bonus of losing your cell phone and being blacklisted from every service provider for a year.


smile2

Or life in prison?


Maybe for the 2nd offense but I was going to suggest exile from California. hat


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910305
02/07/19 10:42 PM
02/07/19 10:42 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
P
Phi1 Offline
Michael Peterson status
Phi1  Offline
Michael Peterson status
**
P

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2


Good news Aston Martin owners!

https://media.astonmartin.com/aston-martin-works-create-first-reversible-ev-powertrain-conceptnbsp/

Seriously though, I'm sure Toyota or some entrepreneur could come up with a bolt-in electric swap. Hell, if amateurs can do it with a forklift motor there's probably someone that can engineer the electric equivalent of a crate 350 long block.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910308
02/07/19 10:53 PM
02/07/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


There is very little I can afford where I work which would not be a massive down-grade from where I live. Yes, I can afford a one-bedroom apartment with a third the square footage (although it would be only slightly less than my current mortgage) near where I work but with a family of 4, it would not be feasible at all. If it was just me, sure, but with a family of 4? Not a chance.

I am not the only one in this situation at all. In fact, I am better off than most. What about people who are only making, say, $40K/year? They can probably afford a public storage container in Irvine but that's about it. Even 600 ft2 studios go for almost $2K/month. They're commuting from Inland Empire; no other way around it.

If gas got that expensive, still would probably be worth driving in as it would be cheaper than living where I worked.

You do raise an interesting point. Let's say gas does go that high. I think it would be fair at that point to write off gas receipts and automotive wear and tear as a business-related expense. thought


All fine, but all still choices.

Why do you work where you do?

Why did you and your wife choose to be a single-income family?

Nobody is making you live the life you live. The only reason you commute is because the trade-off is worth it. Gas at $10/gallon might make you rethink that. Or not.

As for people making $40k in Irvine and living in Hemet, of course there's a way around it. Work somewhere else. Live in a different state. Choices. Nobody is making them work in Irvine.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910310
02/07/19 10:55 PM
02/07/19 10:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Yeah, you can make 40k in Hemet.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910311
02/07/19 10:55 PM
02/07/19 10:55 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
P
Phi1 Offline
Michael Peterson status
Phi1  Offline
Michael Peterson status
**
P

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


No, it's a lack of choice. I'd love to be able to afford living in La Jolla. Added degree of difficulty: Two-income families.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2910313
02/07/19 10:56 PM
02/07/19 10:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
They should start by fixing existing mass transit systems

NYC is a shitshow

Boston is a shitshow

It will take many billions of $ to bring the existing systems in line with foreign counterparts

Plus these cities have density that is conducive to rail

Western cities generally dont

The money would be better spent elsewhere

Its not like there isnt an assload of existing infrastructure that doesnt need attention



The money (which we dont really have) would be better spent adapting to a warmer planet.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910316
02/07/19 11:01 PM
02/07/19 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,938
West of the Atlantic. East of...
G
GromsDad Offline
Duke status
GromsDad  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 17,938
West of the Atlantic. East of...
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


It's not price fixing, its social engineering. No different than heavy taxes on smokes.


$10 gas would destroy the economy.


This is a bad day for the news media. Lets not kid ourselves, Toobin said on CNN. The larger message that a lot of people are going to take from this story is that the news media are a bunch of leftist liars who are dying to get the president, and theyre willing to lie to do it.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Duffy] #2910322
02/07/19 11:12 PM
02/07/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Yeah, you can make 40k in Hemet.


Do you have to? If you make $30,000 but save 3 hours a day in driving, is it worth it? BTW, there are, the last I checked, at least a few stops between Hemet and Irvine. Maybe they have jobs there?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Phi1] #2910324
02/07/19 11:16 PM
02/07/19 11:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Phi1
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
100% not. Commuting happens because you don't want to work and live in the same place. It's a choice.


No, it's a lack of choice. I'd love to be able to afford living in La Jolla. Added degree of difficulty: Two-income families.


That's not a lack of choice, it's a lack of ability. If you wanted to live in La Jolla badly enough though, you'd figure it out. Choices. Tiny shit hole in La Jolla or larger home further away from the beach?

The choice is that you work in La Jolla in the first place even though you apparently live somewhere that's not La Jolla.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GromsDad] #2910325
02/07/19 11:19 PM
02/07/19 11:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento


The only way it will work is if it cheaper than gas and faster than driving.


Make gas $10/gallon. smile2

That's genius!

Price fixing always works!


It's not price fixing, its social engineering. No different than heavy taxes on smokes.


$10 gas would destroy the economy.


Or would it shift us to different practices and energy sources?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910331
02/07/19 11:28 PM
02/07/19 11:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento


Housing prices, both purchase or rent, are prohibitively expensive. Especially considering I am the sole earner in the family until my kids are old enough.

There's also the fact that I greatly dislike urban centers and the traffic/crowds/shit associated with them.


Nah, you're still being vague. Can you afford no place near your work, or just no place that's similarly comfortable? I highly doubt you can't afford any place to live there.

That you dislike urban centers is immaterial to whether you "can" live near where you work. You're making a choice - suburban house and a long drive over urban living with no commute. Would you make the same choice if gas was $10 or $15/gallon?


There is very little I can afford where I work which would not be a massive down-grade from where I live. Yes, I can afford a one-bedroom apartment with a third the square footage (although it would be only slightly less than my current mortgage) near where I work but with a family of 4, it would not be feasible at all. If it was just me, sure, but with a family of 4? Not a chance.

I am not the only one in this situation at all. In fact, I am better off than most. What about people who are only making, say, $40K/year? They can probably afford a public storage container in Irvine but that's about it. Even 600 ft2 studios go for almost $2K/month. They're commuting from Inland Empire; no other way around it.

If gas got that expensive, still would probably be worth driving in as it would be cheaper than living where I worked.

You do raise an interesting point. Let's say gas does go that high. I think it would be fair at that point to write off gas receipts and automotive wear and tear as a business-related expense. thought


All fine, but all still choices.

Why do you work where you do?

Why did you and your wife choose to be a single-income family?

Nobody is making you live the life you live. The only reason you commute is because the trade-off is worth it. Gas at $10/gallon might make you rethink that. Or not.

As for people making $40k in Irvine and living in Hemet, of course there's a way around it. Work somewhere else. Live in a different state. Choices. Nobody is making them work in Irvine.




I work where I do is because my industry is generally centered in urban-central locations. There are a few very small companies in places like San Clemente but they are very few and far between. Definitely not the norm.

We choose to be a single-income family because day care/after-school care is very expensive. We tried to swing it with both of us working at one point but day care was $2,500/month. My son does get free preschool next year because he has an IEP so that does help a bit. Once he is old enough to go to after-school program at the Y, that will allow my wife to go back to work. Financially, things get a lot easier. Logistically, we'll see how that works. My daughter is special-needs so everything is a bit more complex when it comes to transporting her from school to her various programs during the middle of the day. It's going to be even more stressful and tricky if both my wife and I are working.

Yeah, you can say it's a choice but the quality of life otherwise goes way the hell down when you live in the city instead of the suburbs. Irvine/Camazotz does have a great school district but there are many other aspects of it that I find extremely distasteful. Where I'm at now is an awesome neighborhood for kids, in an almost equally good school district, and being in the foothills, I can go for a hike right out my front door if the mood strikes.

I guess it is my choice to not live in Nickerson Gardens or East St. Louis. Pretty easy choice, though. Also, aside from selling/cooking meth, what kind of jobs are out there in Hemet paying $40K/year? For residents there and other shitholes, it's not easy to just pick up and move - you need money, skills, and job prospects.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910332
02/07/19 11:30 PM
02/07/19 11:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910340
02/07/19 11:40 PM
02/07/19 11:40 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
M
manbearpig Offline
Tom Curren status
manbearpig  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
M

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,309
in the bathroom
Do you have anything to base those numerous claims?

Much of what you just said could go the complete other way.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910349
02/08/19 12:03 AM
02/08/19 12:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.


all problems that could be remediated with the implementation of public transit systems


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910352
02/08/19 12:09 AM
02/08/19 12:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
How would the prices of (virtually ALL) goods and services decline if the costs of transportation increased?

Do you know what happens to real estate values for the non-luxury properties out in the sticks when gas prices increase significantly? I do, because we saw it back when gas prices jumps from $3/gal to $5+/gallon a few years back. There was an immediate decline in sales volumes and some minor price declines. Several articles were written in the local paper at the time.

Do you know what happens when values in the close-in areas increase? It displaces the poor to the outlying areas. Away from supporting services.

If you live out in Riverside or San Bernardino and commute into L.A. for work 40+ miles away in rush hour traffic where your car is getting maybe 20mpg because of the stop-n-go and you gas costs for commuting to work increase from $200/mo to $600/mo that's at least $400/mo less that you have to spend on anything else in your life including your housing. That's net, not your gross income. Also not including the cumulative effects on everything else you buy because of transportation costs. After a while it starts to add up.

So who do you think feels the pain of such price increases in the essentials more acutely? The rich or the poor?


Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910355
02/08/19 12:13 AM
02/08/19 12:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.


all problems that could be remediated with the implementation of public transit systems


Which aren't financially feasible unless you artificially fck with the price of carbon energy to make it more expensive. Moreover, you're forcing the consumers to pay for it. It's just another tax increase that hurts the poor way more than the rich. Way to go.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910362
02/08/19 12:25 AM
02/08/19 12:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910389
02/08/19 02:14 AM
02/08/19 02:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
C
casa_mugrienta Offline OP
Duke status
casa_mugrienta  Offline OP
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 18,994
Petak Island
It's funny to see how detached from reality StuAzole is with his "It's so easy to live where you work" mantra.

Of course, this is the same guy who says most black people wish they were white, so....


Q: Secret aspiration?
A: Buy Pezman's mag and turn it into a piece of crap.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910404
02/08/19 02:54 AM
02/08/19 02:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: afoaf
the rail system between philly, NY, Boston, and down to DC was a great
experience. Japan was next level.

I really wish California had a better solution....right now I have to drive an
hour out of the southbay to get on a train...I could already be halfway down
to san diego before I even start moving on the train which also travels
slower than a vehicle (and has a less direct route).

jet fuel is a potent pollutant and the fuel consumption of all the supporting
vehicles at the airports cumulatively add up to a lot.


You sir are unamerican.

You must drive your car until there's no room to drive anymore.

Then park you car and walk away.



"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910406
02/08/19 02:59 AM
02/08/19 02:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: afoaf
the rail system between philly, NY, Boston, and down to DC was a great
experience. Japan was next level.

I really wish California had a better solution....right now I have to drive an
hour out of the southbay to get on a train...I could already be halfway down
to san diego before I even start moving on the train which also travels
slower than a vehicle (and has a less direct route).

jet fuel is a potent pollutant and the fuel consumption of all the supporting
vehicles at the airports cumulatively add up to a lot.


You sir are unamerican.

You must drive your car until there's no room to drive anymore.

Then park you car and walk away.





I gotta say, the two guys Douglas is throwing the bat at are doing a great job of working where they live.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910407
02/08/19 03:00 AM
02/08/19 03:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Air and Bus routes are scalable and flexible. Rail isn't.


False dichotomy.

Air, bus and train all have their advantages and disadvantages and work best together for the most efficient public transport system.


In most Western Cultures on earth.

Eastern too.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910409
02/08/19 03:03 AM
02/08/19 03:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,153
In Gods Country
C
CharmingSophisticate Offline
Duke status
CharmingSophisticate  Offline
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,153
In Gods Country
Wouldn't it be greener if we all just worked from home and explored the world while sitting in front of our televisions watching the state owned Progress Network "Where everyone's woke!".


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: CharmingSophisticate] #2910418
02/08/19 03:16 AM
02/08/19 03:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: CharmingSophisticate
Wouldn't it be greener if we all just worked from home and explored the world while sitting in front of our televisions watching the state owned Progress Network "Where everyone's woke!".


Being greener is just bonus.

When there's no room on the roads for more cars, what then?

You don't have to be woke to see the problem, you just have to have an IQ above 50


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910420
02/08/19 03:17 AM
02/08/19 03:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: Kento

I gotta say, the two guys Douglas is throwing the bat at are doing a great job of working where they live.


roflmao

Bravo. smile2


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910459
02/08/19 03:49 AM
02/08/19 03:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 39,252
F
frvcvs Offline
Duke status
frvcvs  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 39,252
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: casa_mugrienta
Originally Posted By: manbearpig


Also nowhere does it say that it would replace air travel.


You can't read.


it literally does not say it will replace it

it says it won't be necessary


GOOD POINT.

I mean, lots of people are still moving west by wagon train.

Rail and air travel never replaced anything I guess! Just made it so it's "not necessary."






Wow, you just went full Surfdog on this thread. loser Congrats!!! cheers


"Milk tits rule!" - Bonzer5Fin

"I've been against every Trump/Republican policy implemented and expressed it here." - Caca_Mugrienta

"I'm someone who has spent way more time in the black community than most white people." - Caca_Mugrienta

"Your credential as an ERbb conservative is officially blown." - Squidley

"while it has over 8,000 nerve endings, a clitoris is nowhere near as sensitive as a MAGA snowflake " - StuAzole
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910548
02/08/19 11:00 AM
02/08/19 11:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
You California guys sure love to punch yourselves in the dick with gas taxes

https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910612
02/08/19 03:33 PM
02/08/19 03:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: the janitor] #2910613
02/08/19 03:34 PM
02/08/19 03:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: the janitor
this seems totally feasible:

"A guaranteed job "with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations and retirement security" for every American"

I seem to recall hearing that before somewhere...

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: rice] #2910614
02/08/19 03:35 PM
02/08/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: rice
Originally Posted By: Kento
It is only about 17 miles each way so could even walk it, which would take ~4.5 hours.


Walking is silly.

17 miles by bike is only an hour. shrug

Oh yeah? On the 405?

Derp.

Not everyone lives in an idyllic rural area


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910615
02/08/19 03:36 PM
02/08/19 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: afoaf
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.


all problems that could be remediated with the implementation of public transit systems

And those just magically appear


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910623
02/08/19 03:54 PM
02/08/19 03:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
the point is that, barring some major change in extraction and supply, massive
gas hikes would realistically be implemented as part of larger overhaul of transit
systems similar to what has been implemented in other countries.

let's not look at only part of the equation.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910626
02/08/19 03:58 PM
02/08/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: afoaf
the point is that, barring some major change in extraction and supply, massive
gas hikes would realistically be implemented as part of larger overhaul of transit
systems similar to what has been implemented in other countries.

let's not look at only part of the equation.

And it would completely destroy our supply chains, construction, and service industry. Distances in the US are simply incomparable to the Euro nations I'm sure you're referencing.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910672
02/08/19 05:28 PM
02/08/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Meanwhile technology continues to march forward on its own, electric cars and now trucks are becoming all the rage, and more people than ever work from home at least a few days a week. Which trends we can reasonably expect will continue.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910684
02/08/19 05:39 PM
02/08/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yes, Germany, with its significantly more expensive gas, is crumbling!

But I'll tell you what, roll the tax out over 5 years. $1 a gallon each year.

The economy will be fine, and you'll drive less.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910686
02/08/19 05:46 PM
02/08/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento

I work where I do is because my industry is generally centered in urban-central locations. There are a few very small companies in places like San Clemente but they are very few and far between. Definitely not the norm.

We choose to be a single-income family because day care/after-school care is very expensive. We tried to swing it with both of us working at one point but day care was $2,500/month. My son does get free preschool next year because he has an IEP so that does help a bit. Once he is old enough to go to after-school program at the Y, that will allow my wife to go back to work. Financially, things get a lot easier. Logistically, we'll see how that works. My daughter is special-needs so everything is a bit more complex when it comes to transporting her from school to her various programs during the middle of the day. It's going to be even more stressful and tricky if both my wife and I are working.

Yeah, you can say it's a choice but the quality of life otherwise goes way the hell down when you live in the city instead of the suburbs. Irvine/Camazotz does have a great school district but there are many other aspects of it that I find extremely distasteful. Where I'm at now is an awesome neighborhood for kids, in an almost equally good school district, and being in the foothills, I can go for a hike right out my front door if the mood strikes.

I guess it is my choice to not live in Nickerson Gardens or East St. Louis. Pretty easy choice, though. Also, aside from selling/cooking meth, what kind of jobs are out there in Hemet paying $40K/year? For residents there and other shitholes, it's not easy to just pick up and move - you need money, skills, and job prospects.


You just gave me 20 reasons why you live where you live - all of them involved in your cost/benefit analysis. My point only is that if it was 3x as costly to drive, you might choose differently.

And yes, Hemet is Hemet, but there are plenty of jobs in Temecula and Corona and Riverside that pay well and don't involve driving to Irvine or San Diego every day. On the topic of "who buys a home in Hemet and why" I actually know way more than most - it was my business for almost 10 years. The answer is often times "we can afford a house and a yard here, but not in San Diego or Irvine and we'd rather drive than live in a small condo." It's the same reason people buy homes in Lancaster instead of the Valley, or in Victorville instead of Rancho Cucamonga. When gas prices jump up, people make a different decision.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910701
02/08/19 06:05 PM
02/08/19 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.


Yes and no.

I agree 100% that if gas jumps to $10/gallon, people living in Victorville will be fucked. And they'll likely try to move. And values in the outlying suburbs will drop, while urban living costs increase.

But that assumes the gas jump happens all at once rather than over a span of years. Give it 10 years to implement and everyone has plenty of time to figure it out.

But I don't agree that this is all bad, and it's funny that you - Mr. "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" thinks that people without money are somehow unable to make life choices on their own.

If it's 3x more expensive to drive, it would force people to make a choice - continue to drive and pay for it, or do something else. Move to Phoenix where you can drive on the cheap all you want. Move closer to the urban core but in a smaller space. Share a place with extended family. Be more efficient in carpooling/ride sharing. Get a new job closer to home.

And you're 100% wrong about destroying business outside the core - in fact, making commuting more expensive would encourage more local business hubs, not fewer. If SD companies can't find workers, maybe it makes more sense to locate in Murrieta. It's why ViaSat is in Carlsbad and not SD. It's why Amgen is in Newbury Park and not LA. There's no reason people "need" to drive 100 miles a day to and from work - they just do so because it currently makes financial sense to do so. As soon as it stops making sense, people will change their habits.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910707
02/08/19 06:20 PM
02/08/19 06:20 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
P
Phi1 Offline
Michael Peterson status
Phi1  Offline
Michael Peterson status
**
P

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


You just gave me 20 reasons why you live where you live - all of them involved in your cost/benefit analysis. My point only is that if it was 3x as costly to drive, you might choose differently.

And yes, Hemet is Hemet, but there are plenty of jobs in Temecula and Corona and Riverside that pay well and don't involve driving to Irvine or San Diego every day. On the topic of "who buys a home in Hemet and why" I actually know way more than most - it was my business for almost 10 years. The answer is often times "we can afford a house and a yard here, but not in San Diego or Irvine and we'd rather drive than live in a small condo." It's the same reason people buy homes in Lancaster instead of the Valley, or in Victorville instead of Rancho Cucamonga. When gas prices jump up, people make a different decision.


One other thing that the GND touches on is affordable healthcare. How many families feel tied to their current job because of those benefits. Some may consider other employment options (closer to where they live) if they knew they weren't going to lose that benefit.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910713
02/08/19 06:30 PM
02/08/19 06:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yeah, Germany is in total shambles because their gas has been $6 a gallon for the past 20 years.


Last edited by FecalFace; 02/08/19 06:31 PM. Reason: didn't see stu's post

"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910726
02/08/19 06:50 PM
02/08/19 06:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
The first thing it would do is destroy large percentages of the home equity in the residences and businesses that are located out away from the urban core, and further enrich the property owners close in. The middle class gets fkt there.

As urban RE values increase it displaces the poor out to the sticks, further away from public transportation, social services AND they types of employment opportunities that the urban areas offer.

All non-essential travel would drop dramatically, and the tourism businesses that are dependent on that travel along with it.

Pricing on all goods and services that require transportation - which is basically all of it - would increase considerably.

It might even hollow out the rural areas and outlying burbs of their working populations.

All of which would have the disparate impact on the working poor and lower middle class. But fck them, right? Because this is WWIII for the planet and if we don't win we're all gonna die.


Yes and no.

I agree 100% that if gas jumps to $10/gallon, people living in Victorville will be fucked. And they'll likely try to move. And values in the outlying suburbs will drop, while urban living costs increase.

But that assumes the gas jump happens all at once rather than over a span of years. Give it 10 years to implement and everyone has plenty of time to figure it out.

But I don't agree that this is all bad, and it's funny that you - Mr. "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" thinks that people without money are somehow unable to make life choices on their own.

If it's 3x more expensive to drive, it would force people to make a choice - continue to drive and pay for it, or do something else. Move to Phoenix where you can drive on the cheap all you want. Move closer to the urban core but in a smaller space. Share a place with extended family. Be more efficient in carpooling/ride sharing. Get a new job closer to home.

And you're 100% wrong about destroying business outside the core - in fact, making commuting more expensive would encourage more local business hubs, not fewer. If SD companies can't find workers, maybe it makes more sense to locate in Murrieta. It's why ViaSat is in Carlsbad and not SD. It's why Amgen is in Newbury Park and not LA. There's no reason people "need" to drive 100 miles a day to and from work - they just do so because it currently makes financial sense to do so. As soon as it stops making sense, people will change their habits.



If you can acknowledge the effects on the outyling areas then it shouldn't be any stretch - whatsoever - to understand that there will also be the opposing effects on the close-in areas. Both of which will have a disparate effect on the poor and working classes. They are the ones who are already paying the most - relative to their incomes - for the cumulative effects of inflation. Now the social engineers want to levy more taxation on them just so they can lay claim to the pride of expanding mass transportation networks that already can't draw enough ridership to even approach economic feasibility.

As for the viability of the outlying commercial and industrial hubs that would be a lot easier if not for the prevalence of the two-income household where BOTH parents would need to work close to home.

If we want to build up the urban core in a more orderly fashion then a couple of the moves the City of LA (and some others) in tweaking their zoning codes to allow more residential density among the properties with commercial zoning makes sense. That redevelopment of blighted storefronts and other underimproved properties is occurring organically and as the market dictates. Additionally, those properties are already within walking distance to the traffic arterioles that could carry more bus traffic.

It just seems to me that the logical progression towards more mass transit in the west is building from the inside out, not from the outside in isolation to what travelers have to do at either end of their trip. and when I say "building" I am not referring only to the mass transit systems.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910731
02/08/19 06:55 PM
02/08/19 06:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yeah, Germany is in total shambles because their gas has been $6 a gallon for the past 20 years.

1/3rd more than what we now pay here is a lot different than 3x more.



#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910732
02/08/19 06:56 PM
02/08/19 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910736
02/08/19 06:59 PM
02/08/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yeah, Germany is in total shambles because their gas has been $6 a gallon for the past 20 years.

1/3rd more than what we now pay here is a lot different than 3x more.



Their gas was $6 when we were paying $1.50 and their economy didn't collapse.

What higher gas prices did though, is drive innovation in efficiency, transport alternatives and boost in alternative energy.

That's why we're behind.

SUV culture. Status quo.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910742
02/08/19 07:01 PM
02/08/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: Kento

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


And electric cars would become more efficient with longer range and battery technology would improve.

Exactly what I'm saying above.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910743
02/08/19 07:01 PM
02/08/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yes, Germany, with its significantly more expensive gas, is crumbling!

But I'll tell you what, roll the tax out over 5 years. $1 a gallon each year.

The economy will be fine, and you'll drive less.

Nope, everyone will just have less disposable income, and the economy will suffer.

Germany is smaller than Texas


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910747
02/08/19 07:03 PM
02/08/19 07:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Kento

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


And electric cars would become more efficient with longer range and battery technology would improve.

Exactly what I'm saying above.

That's happening naturally without punitive user fees/sin tax


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910750
02/08/19 07:04 PM
02/08/19 07:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yes, Germany, with its significantly more expensive gas, is crumbling!

But I'll tell you what, roll the tax out over 5 years. $1 a gallon each year.

The economy will be fine, and you'll drive less.

Nope, everyone will just have less disposable income, and the economy will suffer.

Germany is smaller than Texas


Ignoring the facts and coming up with a fantasy, nice.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910751
02/08/19 07:04 PM
02/08/19 07:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


All good.

Choice.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910753
02/08/19 07:06 PM
02/08/19 07:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yes, Germany, with its significantly more expensive gas, is crumbling!

But I'll tell you what, roll the tax out over 5 years. $1 a gallon each year.

The economy will be fine, and you'll drive less.

Nope, everyone will just have less disposable income, and the economy will suffer.

Germany is smaller than Texas


Ignoring the facts and coming up with a fantasy, nice.

What fantasy? The size of Germany? Historical precedent when gas prices were high? Please tell me what fantasies I'm coming up with.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910755
02/08/19 07:06 PM
02/08/19 07:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


BTW, do you think others would do the same? And if yes, what do you think would happen to the cost of electric cars and electricity in general? Is infrastructure currently sufficient to handle all those new required charges?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910758
02/08/19 07:09 PM
02/08/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: StuAzole


Oh my, some people breaking the law means it isn't working!

I'd like to see a similar black market for gas.

I look forward to you trying to live off the land when the whole economy crumbles because of high gas prices


Yes, Germany, with its significantly more expensive gas, is crumbling!

But I'll tell you what, roll the tax out over 5 years. $1 a gallon each year.

The economy will be fine, and you'll drive less.

Nope, everyone will just have less disposable income, and the economy will suffer.

Germany is smaller than Texas


But similar to California in economic output. Since we're talking about California, it's probably relevant.

You think the choice for everyone would be to stay status quo and just pay more for gas?

I don't.


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910759
02/08/19 07:09 PM
02/08/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Kento

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


And electric cars would become more efficient with longer range and battery technology would improve.

Exactly what I'm saying above.

That's happening naturally without punitive user fees/sin tax


No it's not. As long as gas is cheap people will rather drive SUVs to soccer practice than a fuel efficient/electric cars.

Necessity drives innovation.

Your premise that economy will collapse because of the gas prices is bullshit.

It would just be a different economy, the one not dominated by fossil fuel industry.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910760
02/08/19 07:10 PM
02/08/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


BTW, do you think others would do the same? And if yes, what do you think would happen to the cost of electric cars and electricity in general? Is infrastructure currently sufficient to handle all those new required charges?

Cost of electric cars goes down, cost of electricity goes up. No more free charging stations anywhere.

Would the fuel sin tax be levied on electric producers as well?


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910762
02/08/19 07:10 PM
02/08/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Please tell me what fantasies I'm coming up with.


That economy would collapse.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910763
02/08/19 07:11 PM
02/08/19 07:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Kento

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


And electric cars would become more efficient with longer range and battery technology would improve.

Exactly what I'm saying above.

That's happening naturally without punitive user fees/sin tax


No it's not. As long as gas is cheap people will rather drive SUVs to soccer practice than a fuel efficient/electric cars.

Necessity drives innovation.

Your premise that economy will collapse because of the gas prices is bullshit.

It would just be a different economy, the one not dominated by fossil fuel industry.






Yes, a third world barter/subsistence economy.

Also, please explain the existence of Teslas and other electric cars based on your above assertion

TIA


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910764
02/08/19 07:11 PM
02/08/19 07:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910766
02/08/19 07:13 PM
02/08/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced


The rail lines that run up to my front door?

How about the millions of trade vehicles that are on the road every day? Rideshares?


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910769
02/08/19 07:14 PM
02/08/19 07:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
No trade vehicles on the road would be worth 6x expensive gas.


"Can you ask if she'll blow me too?" - Autoprax
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: afoaf] #2910770
02/08/19 07:15 PM
02/08/19 07:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced



Sounds like a collapse.

Or communism?

One of those.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Sharkbiscuit] #2910774
02/08/19 07:18 PM
02/08/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
No trade vehicles on the road would be worth 6x expensive gas.

And hence the economy collapsing.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910775
02/08/19 07:18 PM
02/08/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Hell I'd settle for 2008 again. $4/gallon gas, fewer retards camped in the passing lane on I-95. And when you park your car, there was the sweet sight of an SUV/pickup on a tow truck, and the sweet sound of tears as it rolled out of the driveway, past the foreclosure sign in the front yard, and on down the road.

Those were better, simpler times.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910777
02/08/19 07:19 PM
02/08/19 07:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced



Sounds like a collapse.

Or communism?

One of those.

Actually sounds like 100% futurist utopian nonsense



MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910780
02/08/19 07:20 PM
02/08/19 07:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced


The rail lines that run up to my front door?

How about the millions of trade vehicles that are on the road every day? Rideshares?



what is with you and the shitty reading comprehension lately?

do you just come here to lash out at people on the down low?


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910782
02/08/19 07:21 PM
02/08/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced


The rail lines that run up to my front door?


foreheadslap

So fvcking ignorant of the world.

Train is part of the transportation network consisting of trams, metro, buses (electric too), that will get you to your front door in every developed Western/Eastern nation on the planet.

I just came back from Rome, in combination with Google maps, it was a breeze getting around the city.
Public transportation got me anywhere I wanted to go, 5 min walk max from every destination.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910785
02/08/19 07:23 PM
02/08/19 07:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced



Sounds like a collapse.

Or communism?

One of those.

Actually sounds like 100% futurist utopian nonsense



Or maybe you are a moron who is ignoring reality?









"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910786
02/08/19 07:24 PM
02/08/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910789
02/08/19 07:26 PM
02/08/19 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I actually like the by-the-mile tax idea.

Those who drive the most should pay the most for road upkeep etc.

I also prefer a consumption tax over an income tax.

Last edited by StuAzole; 02/08/19 07:27 PM.

Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910790
02/08/19 07:27 PM
02/08/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I actually like the by-the-mile tax idea.

Those who drive the most should pay the most for road upkeep etc.



This + by the weight of the vehicle too.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910791
02/08/19 07:29 PM
02/08/19 07:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I actually like the by-the-mile tax idea.

Those who drive the most should pay the most for road upkeep etc.

I actually tend to agree with this more than the current tax structure.

But that would have to be the only tax at that point


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910793
02/08/19 07:31 PM
02/08/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: afoaf
other solutions would emerge.

ride share/pool and autonomous electric vehicles

logistics would shift their delivery mix towards rail

and perhaps consumption all around will be reduced



Sounds like a collapse.

Or communism?

One of those.

Actually sounds like 100% futurist utopian nonsense



Or maybe you are a moron who is ignoring reality?








Yes, we have a rail network in the United States too. It's been around since the 19th Century, maybe you should read up on the history of it, its fascinating.

(the problem is the "last mile")


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910798
02/08/19 07:36 PM
02/08/19 07:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Quote:
Yes, we have a rail network in the United States too. It's been around since the 19th Century, maybe you should read up on the history of it, its fascinating.

(the problem is the "last mile")


Yes, last mile is the problem that's why we need to build transportation networks and not keep adding freeway lanes.
once again, you're defeating your own dumb argument.

I gave you the example, every European metropolitan area has transportation networks consisting of trains, metro, buses and trams that will drop you on your doorstep.

Yet you are calling it "utopia".

Full fucktard.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910801
02/08/19 07:37 PM
02/08/19 07:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Quote:
Yes, we have a rail network in the United States too. It's been around since the 19th Century, maybe you should read up on the history of it, its fascinating.

(the problem is the "last mile")


Yes, last mile is the problem that's why we need to build transportation networks and not keep adding freeway lanes.
once again, you're defeating your own dumb argument.

I gave you the example, every European metropolitan area has transportation networks consisting of trains, metro, buses and trams that will drop you on your doorstep.

Yet you are calling it "utopia".

Full fucktard.


And you're still talking about passenger transportation.

Fuller fucktard


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910804
02/08/19 07:38 PM
02/08/19 07:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Quote:
Yes, we have a rail network in the United States too. It's been around since the 19th Century, maybe you should read up on the history of it, its fascinating.

(the problem is the "last mile")


Yes, last mile is the problem that's why we need to build transportation networks and not keep adding freeway lanes.
once again, you're defeating your own dumb argument.

I gave you the example, every European metropolitan area has transportation networks consisting of trains, metro, buses and trams that will drop you on your doorstep.

Yet you are calling it "utopia".

Full fucktard.


And you're still talking about passenger transportation.

Fuller fucktard


Yet you are the one complaining about not being able to be dropped off at your doorstep.

WTF are you even talking about.

You're a classic case of been-nowhere person who thinks he knows how the world operates, just from visiting Reddit forums.



"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910806
02/08/19 07:39 PM
02/08/19 07:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.

Ya, that's gonna happen.

And if public trans can't do it, my electric car will.

If it's not too cold, or too hot......

"Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found.

The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as much as the cold. The range returns to normal in more comfortable temperatures.

Many owners discovered the range limitations last week when much of the country was in the grips of a polar vortex. Owners of vehicles made by manufacturers including Tesla, the top-selling electric vehicle company in the U.S., complained on social media about reduced range and frozen door handles during the cold snap."

>> AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40% <<

The grim realities of life on batteries.


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910808
02/08/19 07:39 PM
02/08/19 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
Hawaii

Islands

Lots of clustered residential areas

Gas prices are high

Building the conventional light rail (20 car sets x 780 passengers max ea) in Honolulu has been a struggle. The entire island of Oahu is only 30 miles from north-south. There's Red-Cortez's perfect test tube for rail and mass transit replacing cars. One central rail line straight up the middle of the island and light rail lines extending east as west to the outlying residential communities and military.


Go show us how it's done. If you can't make it work there........


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910811
02/08/19 07:40 PM
02/08/19 07:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Yeah, Europe isn't Utopia. Everything costs a fortune, and who knows how much it costs to take a surfboard on that train.

Utopia is a taxi with a roof rack and a bus with no kid practicing Muy Thai on your seatback behind you.





"Can you ask if she'll blow me too?" - Autoprax
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2910813
02/08/19 07:42 PM
02/08/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.


Newsflash: people still use cars for stuff like that in places with great transportation networks.

Full fucktard false dichotomy.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2910815
02/08/19 07:44 PM
02/08/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,282
Here
S
sizzld1 Offline
Phil Edwards status
sizzld1  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,282
Here
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.

Ya, that's gonna happen.

And if public trans can't do it, my electric car will.

If it's not too cold, or too hot......

"Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found.

The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as much as the cold. The range returns to normal in more comfortable temperatures.

Many owners discovered the range limitations last week when much of the country was in the grips of a polar vortex. Owners of vehicles made by manufacturers including Tesla, the top-selling electric vehicle company in the U.S., complained on social media about reduced range and frozen door handles during the cold snap."

>> AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40% <<

The grim realities of life on batteries.


Grim realities of owning and operating an automobile is more like it. Gas powered cars don't fair a whole lot better in the freezing cold with the heater cranking. shrug


"I love it when people who are supposed to be surfers.....posting on a surfing forum.....don't know the difference between stoke and stock." - GromsDad
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910831
02/08/19 07:55 PM
02/08/19 07:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.


Newsflash: people still use cars for stuff like that in places with great transportation networks.

Full fucktard false dichotomy.


I thought the green ideal was no cars, especially for "wasteful" hedonistic human endeavors?

LA/OC/SD/IE are so spread out, you could never get a perfect public trans/train option to work for a majority of people. Unless you forced them all into the urban core, like NYC or other vertically dense city.

It would take multi-$trillions to build a transit train network, that few would actually end up using.

You would have to FORCE people to use it (economically or lawfully).

In the USA, people like their freedom to go where they want, when they want, at any given moment of the day or night. Not limited by some funky, skanky public transportation system that shuttles them around like cattle or sheep, to up end jumping another one or 2 to get to a certain location without spending an hour or more to do it.

So Cal is not that condensed of a megopolis to please everyone's opposite directions.

Green Dreams indeed.


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2910833
02/08/19 07:56 PM
02/08/19 07:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I thought


This is where you went wrong.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910835
02/08/19 07:57 PM
02/08/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,282
Here
S
sizzld1 Offline
Phil Edwards status
sizzld1  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,282
Here
Or maybe you just choose to focus on ridiculous extremes anytime you are faced with a topic that makes you uncomfortable in your little bubble of corporate servitude?


"I love it when people who are supposed to be surfers.....posting on a surfing forum.....don't know the difference between stoke and stock." - GromsDad
"I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to, too." - Mitch Hedberg
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2910852
02/08/19 08:27 PM
02/08/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2910855
02/08/19 08:39 PM
02/08/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Quote:
Yes, we have a rail network in the United States too. It's been around since the 19th Century, maybe you should read up on the history of it, its fascinating.

(the problem is the "last mile")


Yes, last mile is the problem that's why we need to build transportation networks and not keep adding freeway lanes.
once again, you're defeating your own dumb argument.

I gave you the example, every European metropolitan area has transportation networks consisting of trains, metro, buses and trams that will drop you on your doorstep.

Yet you are calling it "utopia".

Full fucktard.


And you're still talking about passenger transportation.

Fuller fucktard


Yet you are the one complaining about not being able to be dropped off at your doorstep.

WTF are you even talking about.

You're a classic case of been-nowhere person who thinks he knows how the world operates, just from visiting Reddit forums.


Reading comprehension fail on your part followed by a ignorant generalization and assumption. Par for the course I guess

Want to tell us more about free speech?

(we were talking about dropping off packages at the door. derp)


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: sizzld1] #2910856
02/08/19 08:40 PM
02/08/19 08:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: sizzld1
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.

Ya, that's gonna happen.

And if public trans can't do it, my electric car will.

If it's not too cold, or too hot......

"Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found.

The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as much as the cold. The range returns to normal in more comfortable temperatures.

Many owners discovered the range limitations last week when much of the country was in the grips of a polar vortex. Owners of vehicles made by manufacturers including Tesla, the top-selling electric vehicle company in the U.S., complained on social media about reduced range and frozen door handles during the cold snap."

>> AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40% <<

The grim realities of life on batteries.


Grim realities of owning and operating an automobile is more like it. Gas powered cars don't fair a whole lot better in the freezing cold with the heater cranking. shrug


You do know how a heater works on a combustion engine vehicle, right? It uses the radiant heat for "free" from the motor to heat the interior.

An electric vehicle has to generate heat from the battery only, since the radiant heat from the motor is minimal. So, it sucks up precious mileage from the battery to either heat or cool using the A/C.

Combustion engines do lose some mileage using A/C (A/C motor stress on drive-train), but NOT from using the heater.

Electric engines use a lot of their energy to generate heat, and mileage suffers significantly when cold with the heater used. Not to mention batteries lose charge just sitting in sub-freezing climate alone (unless being charged while sitting in the cold).

As we've known for over 100 years now, battery power is a fair weather luxury. Too hot, or too cold, it loses its efficiency noticeably, if you want simple conveniences like heat and A/C.

But hey, we have to sacrifice those and other luxuries if we want to save the planet from ourselves. At least us peons not of the "green elite" (the do as I say, not as I do types).


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910858
02/08/19 08:42 PM
02/08/19 08:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2910863
02/08/19 08:46 PM
02/08/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff



MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2910866
02/08/19 08:47 PM
02/08/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff


I wonder if driverless cars will all be equal?

Will some budget models be "dumber" than other more expensive models?

Or will they all be like a Utopian society where everyone is equal in thought, gender and opportunity? monkey


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910867
02/08/19 08:49 PM
02/08/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
People should drive less.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910869
02/08/19 08:49 PM
02/08/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
I think theyd be more equal than now because you wont have to own a car to have ready access to one

Itll be like Uber minus the driver

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2910871
02/08/19 08:52 PM
02/08/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff


Oh hell no. The more advancements in technology, the less reliability. Driverless cars would need to be 100% reliable. Considering the number of bugs, poor programming, crashes, etc. you see in standard phones and computers these days, not to mention cars (faulty sensors alone), I wouldn't trust driverless cars in a million years.

Let's see what Japan or Korea does with that first as they are infinitely more capable than the US when it comes to anything involving any kind of electronic component.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2910874
02/08/19 08:54 PM
02/08/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Kento] #2910875
02/08/19 08:55 PM
02/08/19 08:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
Originally Posted By: Kento
Stu, you asked questions, I answered. shrug

And if gas skyrocketed, I'd probably lease an electric car for commuting.


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff


Oh hell no. The more advancements in technology, the less reliability. Driverless cars would need to be 100% reliable. Considering the number of bugs, poor programming, crashes, etc. you see in standard phones and computers these days, not to mention cars (faulty sensors alone), I wouldn't trust driverless cars in a million years.

Let's see what Japan or Korea does with that first as they are infinitely more capable than the US when it comes to anything involving any kind of electronic component.


No person is 100% reliable as a driver, and no car current car is 100% reliable, so why would you demand that from a driverless car?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910876
02/08/19 08:56 PM
02/08/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Duffy] #2910879
02/08/19 08:58 PM
02/08/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910880
02/08/19 08:58 PM
02/08/19 08:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.

This.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910883
02/08/19 08:59 PM
02/08/19 08:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.


Expand? What ethical questions about human life give rise here?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910886
02/08/19 09:01 PM
02/08/19 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
K
Kento Online content
Duke status
Kento  Online Content
Duke status
**
K

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 48,567
The Bar
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Originally Posted By: Kento
Originally Posted By: GDaddy


Until they start taxing you by the mile because they don't want you to own a car of any type.


I prefer just taking the shittiest 40% of drivers off the road permanently and letting them figure out transport whether by bus, foot, rickshaw, whatever.

Cause an accident in rush hour? Done.
Shear out left when making right turns? Done.
Drive slow in fast and/or carpool lanes? Done.
Try to use off-ramp Lane to pass but then get stuck, blocking everyone behind you? Done.

Make the roads more efficient by removing the people that make it inefficient. socrazy


Driverless cars are the solution to that stuff


Oh hell no. The more advancements in technology, the less reliability. Driverless cars would need to be 100% reliable. Considering the number of bugs, poor programming, crashes, etc. you see in standard phones and computers these days, not to mention cars (faulty sensors alone), I wouldn't trust driverless cars in a million years.

Let's see what Japan or Korea does with that first as they are infinitely more capable than the US when it comes to anything involving any kind of electronic component.


No person is 100% reliable as a driver, and no car current car is 100% reliable, so why would you demand that from a driverless car?


For things where your life is in something else's hands, it damn better be 100% reliable.

I just want the reliably incompetent drivers off the roads.


Nothing is obscene provided it is done in bad taste.

Russ Meyer
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910893
02/08/19 09:05 PM
02/08/19 09:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.


Expand? What ethical questions about human life give rise here?

The most-used problem is having the computer make the decision to sacrifice one life in order to save three others and similar situational problems to that.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910895
02/08/19 09:08 PM
02/08/19 09:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.

This.


Yes.

And who do insurance companies sue when a driver-less car gets in an accident with another one?

The auto maker? socrazy


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910898
02/08/19 09:11 PM
02/08/19 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Originally Posted By: bird.
We will not have widespread use of driverless cars in our lifetime.


The biggest road block will be government regulations.


Shortcomings of the technology itself and ethical questions about the value of human life inside and outside the vehicle loom equally large if not more so.


I don't understand this distinction where the rubber meets the road. Ethical is an archaic word that means legal. Google/Uber/Tesla what have you do not give a single shit, and the cost of paying off some grieving relatives and replacing some destroyed property almost surely pale in comparison to the potential EPS increases.

shrug

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Sharkbiscuit] #2910903
02/08/19 09:15 PM
02/08/19 09:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Ethical is an archaic word that means legal.


Disagree with this, but I do understand the point that you're making that government regulation would be part of addressing this.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910911
02/08/19 09:20 PM
02/08/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Ethical is an archaic word that means legal.


Disagree with this, but I do understand the point that you're making that government regulation would be part of addressing this.


I'm asserting that government regulation would be the only part of addressing this.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Sharkbiscuit] #2910915
02/08/19 09:23 PM
02/08/19 09:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Ethical is an archaic word that means legal.


Disagree with this, but I do understand the point that you're making that government regulation would be part of addressing this.


I'm asserting that government regulation would be the only part of addressing this.


Which comes first, the governmental regulation or the decisioning programmed into self-driving vehicle tech?

Also, could self-driving and traditional cars share the same roads as the number of self-driving vehicles on the road grows? I suppose that could come down to government regulation, but there are a lot of practical hurdles there to overcome first.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910919
02/08/19 09:33 PM
02/08/19 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Ethical is an archaic word that means legal.


Disagree with this, but I do understand the point that you're making that government regulation would be part of addressing this.


I'm asserting that government regulation would be the only part of addressing this.


Which comes first, the governmental regulation or the decisioning programmed into self-driving vehicle tech?


The latter, due to fear of the former?

How is Uber's testing in Arizona going since they punted a pedestrian into the dirt? Kickbanned? By Uber, or by the Government?

Do Uber and Lyft think people should be able to have self-driving cars for personal use? Or is that a market they want to corner for themselves?

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/2632...ars-urban-areas

I'm pretty sure we've had an ideological disagreement about ethical/legal in the past, but specifically in the context of Amazon/Fakebook/Google/Uber/Tesla, I'm not trusting it until Zuckerberg/Musk/Bezos etc. head is in an Oculus Rift with a special chainsaw rigged to it that will saw his face in half the instant something goes wrong.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910921
02/08/19 09:35 PM
02/08/19 09:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
S
Sharkbiscuit Offline
Phil Edwards status
Sharkbiscuit  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
S

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,815
Jacksonville Beach
Originally Posted By: bird.

Also, could self-driving and traditional cars share the same roads as the number of self-driving vehicles on the road grows? I suppose that could come down to government regulation, but there are a lot of practical hurdles there to overcome first.


The tally is one dead pedestrian (Uber), a few dead drivers (Tesla), and practical does not mean ethical. Everything in development for widespread adoption has practical concerns; that's never going away.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Sharkbiscuit] #2910928
02/08/19 09:46 PM
02/08/19 09:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: Sharkbiscuit
Originally Posted By: bird.

Also, could self-driving and traditional cars share the same roads as the number of self-driving vehicles on the road grows? I suppose that could come down to government regulation, but there are a lot of practical hurdles there to overcome first.


The tally is one dead pedestrian (Uber), a few dead drivers (Tesla), and practical does not mean ethical. Everything in development for widespread adoption has practical concerns; that's never going away.


Right, but the ethical part was only half of what I mentioned. This part has to do with technological shortcomings.

Regardless, this leads me to believe we're pretty much in agreement:

Quote:
I'm pretty sure we've had an ideological disagreement about ethical/legal in the past, but specifically in the context of Amazon/Fakebook/Google/Uber/Tesla, I'm not trusting it until Zuckerberg/Musk/Bezos etc. head is in an Oculus Rift with a special chainsaw rigged to it that will saw his face in half the instant something goes wrong.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2910929
02/08/19 09:50 PM
02/08/19 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

The most-used problem is having the computer make the decision to sacrifice one life in order to save three others and similar situational problems to that.


I don't think I understand what the future of driverless cars looks like to opine here. If all the computers are working together, my assumption has always been there wouldn't be the need for those sorts of decisions. But I'm also thinking about the end result, not the decades leading up to a completed driverless car system.

Either way, I don't see any morality in what you described. Almost 40,000 people died in the US last year in car accidents - I don't recall seeing morality discussed with any of those (maybe except in cases of DUI?).


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: StuAzole] #2910934
02/08/19 10:04 PM
02/08/19 10:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
B
bird. Offline
Phil Edwards status
bird.  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
B

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,144
LA
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

The most-used problem is having the computer make the decision to sacrifice one life in order to save three others and similar situational problems to that.


I don't think I understand what the future of driverless cars looks like to opine here. If all the computers are working together, my assumption has always been there wouldn't be the need for those sorts of decisions. But I'm also thinking about the end result, not the decades leading up to a completed driverless car system.

Either way, I don't see any morality in what you described. Almost 40,000 people died in the US last year in car accidents - I don't recall seeing morality discussed with any of those (maybe except in cases of DUI?).


Are you suggesting pedestrians will all be outfitted with computers in constant communication with the driverless vehicles in their vicinity? Wildlife too?

The difference between current accidents and future driverless accidents is that currently, our fck ups aren't decided upon by software.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: bird.] #2910941
02/08/19 10:12 PM
02/08/19 10:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
S
StuAzole Offline
Tom Curren status
StuAzole  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 13,667
Originally Posted By: bird.
Originally Posted By: StuAzole
Originally Posted By: ifallalot

The most-used problem is having the computer make the decision to sacrifice one life in order to save three others and similar situational problems to that.


I don't think I understand what the future of driverless cars looks like to opine here. If all the computers are working together, my assumption has always been there wouldn't be the need for those sorts of decisions. But I'm also thinking about the end result, not the decades leading up to a completed driverless car system.

Either way, I don't see any morality in what you described. Almost 40,000 people died in the US last year in car accidents - I don't recall seeing morality discussed with any of those (maybe except in cases of DUI?).


Are you suggesting pedestrians will all be outfitted with computers in constant communication with the driverless vehicles in their vicinity? Wildlife too?

The difference between current accidents and future driverless accidents is that currently, our fck ups aren't decided upon by software.


I'm suggesting that your car will stop automatically at a red light and that it will have sensors to help detect cars and people around it.

I also don't see a morality issue related to who or what decides our driving fuckups. Why does it matter?


Bock you
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2910967
02/08/19 11:04 PM
02/08/19 11:04 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
P
Phi1 Offline
Michael Peterson status
Phi1  Offline
Michael Peterson status
**
P

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I want public transportation to take me to Blacks or Lunada Bay or Mammoth or Big Bear, with my surfboard or snow board on a whim.

Ya, that's gonna happen.

And if public trans can't do it, my electric car will.

If it's not too cold, or too hot......

"Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found.

The study of five electric vehicles by AAA also found that high temperatures can cut into battery range, but not nearly as much as the cold. The range returns to normal in more comfortable temperatures.

Many owners discovered the range limitations last week when much of the country was in the grips of a polar vortex. Owners of vehicles made by manufacturers including Tesla, the top-selling electric vehicle company in the U.S., complained on social media about reduced range and frozen door handles during the cold snap."

>> AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40% <<

The grim realities of life on batteries.


I think that's because most everything is geared towards gas or diesel, or propane in rare cases.

If electric cars and refuelling stations were designed around EVs I would envision standardized battery cells that are hot swappable. Like gigantic AA batteries. So you don't recharge, you replace.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Phi1] #2911082
02/09/19 07:36 AM
02/09/19 07:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
I remember reading about that replaceable battery concept in Popular Science about 20+ years or so ago (when I used to subscribe).

Teslas would have a hard time re-inventing their batteries to do that. Their batteries are like giant flat cell phone batteries that take up almost the entire floor-board. Makes for a great low center of gravity and handling, but replacing on a daily or 2 basis, not so much.

Those EV batteries are VERY heavy as one unit. You'd need heavy lift equipment to slide one out, and re-insert a fresh one each time. Can you imagine the stock-pile of these engine sized (or multiple ones for larger vehicles) of charged batteries needed on hand on a given day during rush hour in the AM in larger densely populated cities? You'd need a warehouse of them like you see gas stations on each corner. Watch a busy gas station for an hour and count how many cars go in and out. Imagine all those and more needing to exchange batteries? Imagine how many batteries they would need each and every day or week?

Interesting idea in concept, but on a large scale, quite a challenge to pull off efficiently.

Mass transportation on batteries in a large scale is not like charging your little cell phone.

And talk about toxic waste when the batteries lose their charge cycle efficiency. They "could" be recycled, to an extent, but many components/materials will end up in a land-fill, further polluting the environment and ground water tables.



Add millions of dead batteries and in a decade or 2 dead solar panels to the environment and you'll see what REAL pollution does to humans globally. Meanwhile we'll be waiting for the oceans to rise and force over millions of people on the coasts to flee, wondering "where is it"? rolleyes


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911103
02/09/19 12:23 PM
02/09/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
D
Duffy Offline
Phil Edwards status
Duffy  Offline
Phil Edwards status
**
D

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 6,392
Your moms house
Also, the EROI on photovoltaic solar panels is less than break even.

In other words it takes more energy to produce a solar panel than the panel will produce in its lifetime.


No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn

- The Wasp
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911115
02/09/19 01:29 PM
02/09/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,401
Vagina Point
A
Autoprax Offline
Duke status
Autoprax  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,401
Vagina Point
What do you guys this of using more efficient systems to conserve resources?

I've noticed that some people on the right see conservation and efficiency as commie plots.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911125
02/09/19 02:03 PM
02/09/19 02:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
I drive my cars into the ground

Thats effficiency

No commie social engineering required

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911128
02/09/19 02:13 PM
02/09/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,177
M
mundus Offline
Miki Dora status
mundus  Offline
Miki Dora status
**
M

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 4,177
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911136
02/09/19 03:01 PM
02/09/19 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Just buy a smaller car

This is not very hard

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: mundus] #2911172
02/09/19 05:04 PM
02/09/19 05:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2911195
02/09/19 05:42 PM
02/09/19 05:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.

You guys are so determined to not only maintain the status quo but also drag the country back to the 19th century if possible.

As always, you will lose that battle but that will never stop you from trying because conservatards are inward thinking dummies by nature.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2911198
02/09/19 05:49 PM
02/09/19 05:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.

You guys are so determined to not only maintain the status quo but also drag the country back to the 19th century if possible.

As always, you will lose that battle but that will never stop you from trying because conservatards are inward thinking dummies by nature.

You're fighting facts with feelings here. Nearly all of the same cars in Europe would be available here IF the car companies saw a market for them.

I say nearly because the government regulations you love so much PREVENT many of the diesel engines from being sold here. You know how many awesome small diesels there are?

We're starting to get close on electric cars where their pricing is equal to what someone would spend on a fuel car and fuel to operate it but its only even right now. Not to mention the lack of range on all of them except the high end, expensive cars

Stating facts is not trying to maintain the status quo nor dragging the country back to the 19th Century (it can be argued that's exactly what you want to do with your love of rail and streetcar networks). It is simply stating facts.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2911235
02/09/19 07:12 PM
02/09/19 07:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
S
Surfdog Offline
Tom Curren status
Surfdog  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
S

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,503
Oceanside,CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.


$6-$7+ a gallon gas/diesel helps force those small euro-weeny cars on the general population (Norway is almost $8 a gallon). Many have no other choice, if they need a car to get around.

All that extra fuel cost is taxes and fees. And that's what the GND is all about.

Collecting more New $Green$ is the leftist Dem$ Deal. cookin


Surf 'em if you got 'em
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2911236
02/09/19 07:24 PM
02/09/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.


$6-$7+ a gallon gas/diesel helps force those small euro-weeny cars on the general population (Norway is almost $8 a gallon). Many have no other choice, if they need a car to get around.

All that extra fuel cost is taxes and fees. And that's what the GND is all about.

Collecting more New $Green$ is the leftist Dem$ Deal. cookin


Those "small euro weeny" cars smoke American manufacturers in just about everything but displacement gas guzzling.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: ifallalot] #2911238
02/09/19 07:35 PM
02/09/19 07:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.

You guys are so determined to not only maintain the status quo but also drag the country back to the 19th century if possible.

As always, you will lose that battle but that will never stop you from trying because conservatards are inward thinking dummies by nature.

You're fighting facts with feelings here. Nearly all of the same cars in Europe would be available here IF the car companies saw a market for them.

I say nearly because the government regulations you love so much PREVENT many of the diesel engines from being sold here. You know how many awesome small diesels there are?

We're starting to get close on electric cars where their pricing is equal to what someone would spend on a fuel car and fuel to operate it but its only even right now. Not to mention the lack of range on all of them except the high end, expensive cars

Stating facts is not trying to maintain the status quo nor dragging the country back to the 19th Century (it can be argued that's exactly what you want to do with your love of rail and streetcar networks). It is simply stating facts.



Sounds like feelings to me.

There's no market in the US for fuel efficient cars? Didn't you own a Prius? foreheadslap

Bitching about the electric car range while trying to impede their further development, not to mention your hatred for Elon Musk, seems contradictory.

Yes they're expensive, yes the range is not ideal but if you look where we were 5 years ago and where we are now you'd realize that if people had shiity attitudes towards progress like yours, you would see no Teslas on the road at all.

I asked you million times and never got an answer, what's your answer to future of transportation, considering that 1 person to a car is not a sustainable mode of transport in densely populated areas like Southern CA is becoming?

Let's hear it.


Public transportation technology, like cars, evolve and improve, it's not at all 19th century thing, unless you look only look at US public transport.

UTOPEA! foreheadslap













"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911240
02/09/19 07:43 PM
02/09/19 07:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
BTW, I know quite a few people who own Teslas and none of them complain about the range.
And they take a lot of long trips. There's nothing to it. Rapid charging stations everywhere.

It's 100% dummy conservative attitude, people who bitch about this kind of stuff and say it's not worth it, without looking at the facts.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2911244
02/09/19 07:54 PM
02/09/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,153
In Gods Country
C
CharmingSophisticate Offline
Duke status
CharmingSophisticate  Offline
Duke status
**
C

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,153
In Gods Country
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.

You guys are so determined to not only maintain the status quo but also drag the country back to the 19th century if possible.

As always, you will lose that battle but that will never stop you from trying because conservatards are inward thinking dummies by nature.

You're fighting facts with feelings here. Nearly all of the same cars in Europe would be available here IF the car companies saw a market for them.

I say nearly because the government regulations you love so much PREVENT many of the diesel engines from being sold here. You know how many awesome small diesels there are?

We're starting to get close on electric cars where their pricing is equal to what someone would spend on a fuel car and fuel to operate it but its only even right now. Not to mention the lack of range on all of them except the high end, expensive cars

Stating facts is not trying to maintain the status quo nor dragging the country back to the 19th Century (it can be argued that's exactly what you want to do with your love of rail and streetcar networks). It is simply stating facts.



Sounds like feelings to me.

There's no market in the US for fuel efficient cars? Didn't you own a Prius? foreheadslap

Bitching about the electric car range while trying to impede their further development, not to mention your hatred for Elon Musk, seems contradictory.

Yes they're expensive, yes the range is not ideal but if you look where we were 5 years ago and where we are now you'd realize that if people had shiity attitudes towards progress like yours, you would see no Teslas on the road at all.

I asked you million times and never got an answer, what's your answer to future of transportation, considering that 1 person to a car is not a sustainable mode of transport in densely populated areas like Southern CA is becoming?

Let's hear it.


Public transportation technology, like cars, evolve and improve, it's not at all 19th century thing, unless you look only look at US public transport.

UTOPEA! foreheadslap





<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yc8SlAiyneg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>





If the area of United States was about the size and topography of Washington and Oregon this might be something to think about.

Since our population density about the exact opposite of Japan, this idea is idiotic.

Why are "(re)progressives" so want to ram their stupid religion down other peoples throats?


"...now tell me that wasn't fun!" Capt. Jack Aubrey
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2911259
02/09/19 08:29 PM
02/09/19 08:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
I
ifallalot Offline
Duke status
ifallalot  Offline
Duke status
**
I

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 54,809
HB, CA
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: FecalFace
Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Originally Posted By: mundus
Just think how much cheaper it would be to drive with fuel economy standards?

Not if the car is more expensive in the first place in order to meet those standards


Every new technology is expensive before it becomes cheap. Fuel efficient cars are abundant and cheap in Europe because necessity and market demand drove inovation and mass production.

But no, that's Utopia.

You guys are so determined to not only maintain the status quo but also drag the country back to the 19th century if possible.

As always, you will lose that battle but that will never stop you from trying because conservatards are inward thinking dummies by nature.

You're fighting facts with feelings here. Nearly all of the same cars in Europe would be available here IF the car companies saw a market for them.

I say nearly because the government regulations you love so much PREVENT many of the diesel engines from being sold here. You know how many awesome small diesels there are?

We're starting to get close on electric cars where their pricing is equal to what someone would spend on a fuel car and fuel to operate it but its only even right now. Not to mention the lack of range on all of them except the high end, expensive cars

Stating facts is not trying to maintain the status quo nor dragging the country back to the 19th Century (it can be argued that's exactly what you want to do with your love of rail and streetcar networks). It is simply stating facts.



Sounds like feelings to me.

There's no market in the US for fuel efficient cars? Didn't you own a Prius? foreheadslap

Bitching about the electric car range while trying to impede their further development, not to mention your hatred for Elon Musk, seems contradictory.

Yes they're expensive, yes the range is not ideal but if you look where we were 5 years ago and where we are now you'd realize that if people had shiity attitudes towards progress like yours, you would see no Teslas on the road at all.

I asked you million times and never got an answer, what's your answer to future of transportation, considering that 1 person to a car is not a sustainable mode of transport in densely populated areas like Southern CA is becoming?

Let's hear it.


Public transportation technology, like cars, evolve and improve, it's not at all 19th century thing, unless you look only look at US public transport.

UTOPEA! foreheadslap





<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yc8SlAiyneg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>






And this is why I don't take the time to answer you seriously anymore. You instantly start to make up shit and whine. Who's trying to impede electric car development? Seriously, where do you come up with this shit?

I'll never answer your question about the future of transportation because it's based on a faulty premise of an incorrect assumption.

Have you taken say, the train and Metro combo down to a Padres game from NCSD? It takes twice as long and costs 4x as much.


MUELLER IS COMING batman
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: FecalFace] #2911262
02/09/19 08:35 PM
02/09/19 08:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
A
afoaf Offline
Duke status
afoaf  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 22,450
high speed rail linking seattle, portland, Sac, SF, LA, SD, LV would be great.

training is so easy...quick on and off none of that airport stress.

I don't see how that is a religion, it's just a more efficient, affordable, and
pleasant way of traveling.

also, the voters seem to want it.


Well, someone is stupid but it's not Shakespeare.
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Duffy] #2911270
02/09/19 09:35 PM
02/09/19 09:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
T
the janitor Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
the janitor  Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**
T

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
Originally Posted By: Duffy
Also, the EROI on photovoltaic solar panels is less than break even.

In other words it takes more energy to produce a solar panel than the panel will produce in its lifetime.


oh crap, is that still the case? I remember hearing that years ago and just assumed that they'd gotten efficient enough to surpass that level.

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911272
02/09/19 09:40 PM
02/09/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
I don't see how that can be. If the economic lifespans of these setups have a break-even point then that means the savings have outweighed the costs. Even if it is 15 years down the line.


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2911275
02/09/19 09:45 PM
02/09/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
T
the janitor Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
the janitor  Offline
Rabbitt Bartholomew status
**
T

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,593
north of the bridge
I think the "e" in EROI is perhaps energy instead of economic?

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911276
02/09/19 09:53 PM
02/09/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Dems want to create a market by taxing the snot out of average people just trying to go to work, school, etc

If its a better alternative people will vote with their wallets

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911277
02/09/19 09:55 PM
02/09/19 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Howd raising gas taxes work out for Macron?

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: GDaddy] #2911338
02/10/19 02:42 AM
02/10/19 02:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: GDaddy
I don't see how that can be. If the economic lifespans of these setups have a break-even point then that means the savings have outweighed the costs. Even if it is 15 years down the line.


Whats the cost and ROI of police and military? Infrastructure?

Same thing.


"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: BillyOcean] #2911339
02/10/19 02:44 AM
02/10/19 02:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
F
FecalFace Offline
Duke status
FecalFace  Offline
Duke status
**
F

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31,654
your mom
Originally Posted By: BillyOcean
Howd raising gas taxes work out for Macron?


French were paying 5x more for gas than Americans for decades and nobody was rioting.

What's happening in France is the same as what was happening here. Far right, ultra-nationalist "populism". Pissed off because your fascist darling Le Pen got beat by Macron.



"The real enemy are the (gun) manufactures of your toys and the NRA. They play on your fear to steal your money." - ifallalot / 2014
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911367
02/10/19 04:50 AM
02/10/19 04:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
B
BillyOcean Offline
Tom Curren status
BillyOcean  Offline
Tom Curren status
**
B

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 12,084
Maybe theres a limit to how much people are willing to see energy prices artificially jacked up

You have riots in the street in France over this stuff and you geniuses want to import that here

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911368
02/10/19 04:57 AM
02/10/19 04:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
G
GDaddy Offline
Duke status
GDaddy  Offline
Duke status
**
G

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 22,487
Carlsbad
A lot of people in the U.S. really hate Trump. The Realclearpolitics average is 42%.

But Macron's approval rating is in the low 30% range, and just a few weeks ago it was even lower than that. His problems go way deeper than the"far right ultra-nationalists".


#sowhat
Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: Surfdog] #2911802
02/11/19 06:20 AM
02/11/19 06:20 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
P
Phi1 Offline
Michael Peterson status
Phi1  Offline
Michael Peterson status
**
P

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,379
Santucky, Ca
Originally Posted By: Surfdog
I remember reading about that replaceable battery concept in Popular Science about 20+ years or so ago (when I used to subscribe).

Teslas would have a hard time re-inventing their batteries to do that. Their batteries are like giant flat cell phone batteries that take up almost the entire floor-board. Makes for a great low center of gravity and handling, but replacing on a daily or 2 basis, not so much.

Those EV batteries are VERY heavy as one unit. You'd need heavy lift equipment to slide one out, and re-insert a fresh one each time. Can you imagine the stock-pile of these engine sized (or multiple ones for larger vehicles) of charged batteries needed on hand on a given day during rush hour in the AM in larger densely populated cities? You'd need a warehouse of them like you see gas stations on each corner. Watch a busy gas station for an hour and count how many cars go in and out. Imagine all those and more needing to exchange batteries? Imagine how many batteries they would need each and every day or week?

Interesting idea in concept, but on a large scale, quite a challenge to pull off efficiently.

Mass transportation on batteries in a large scale is not like charging your little cell phone.

And talk about toxic waste when the batteries lose their charge cycle efficiency. They "could" be recycled, to an extent, but many components/materials will end up in a land-fill, further polluting the environment and ground water tables.

Add millions of dead batteries and in a decade or 2 dead solar panels to the environment and you'll see what REAL pollution does to humans globally. Meanwhile we'll be waiting for the oceans to rise and force over millions of people on the coasts to flee, wondering "where is it"? rolleyes


The gas pumps we currently use aren't a first draft. They were engineered to be accurate, to shut off before overflowing and to capture vapors.

Cars could be engineered for changeable batteries, just as fueling stations could be designed to swap batteries. I'm guessing that would be easier than designing a reusable rocket that lands on its own. Besides, you've probably driven through a car wash before. Lots of heavy moving things that accommodate a variety of vehicle shapes and sizes. Also, just because you can swap a battery doesn't mean recharging isn't also an option.

I doubt something like that would happen, the battery sizes would have to be standardized across the board. But who knows, not needing a battery that goes 300 miles and or quick charging may bring the price down.

And It's not like there isn't a waste stream with current cars. Oil, transmission fluid, coolant, all recycled now but it wasn't always like that. Though an electric car still would need blinker fluid and I haven't found a single place to recycle that yet. wink

Re: AOC: Building high speed rail so that air travel is no longer necessary in the next 10 years [Re: casa_mugrienta] #2911831
02/11/19 01:23 PM
02/11/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,401
Vagina Point
A
Autoprax Offline
Duke status
Autoprax  Offline
Duke status
**
A

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 27,401
Vagina Point
We could lower our waste generation a lot by improving efficiency.

I don't get how we aint trying to milk that tit for all it's worth.

No body has to do without.

There is more than we need.


We all know what we hate.

We just don't know what we want.


Page 1 of 13 1 2 3 12 13

Moderated by  Groundswell, Nameless60, r32