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Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Uberkuque] #2908912
02/05/19 04:32 PM
02/05/19 04:32 PM
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THE TERRORIST OF TERRAMAR
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Originally Posted By: Uberkuque
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Uberkuque
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Uberkuque
Yes this is keeping me up nights. I think my wife and I are in the bracket (and location) that will be hit among the hardest by this.

So that millionaires and billionaires can get a tax cut. Un-fvcking-real.

If there was ever a reason and time to refuse to pay taxes based on a moral objection, this would be it.


Wealthy peoples taxes have nothing to do with yours.

You need to pay your fair share.


I pay my fair share. The wealthy dont pay theirs.

For example Trump paid zero taxes, thanks to RE loopholes.

Why are capital gains taxes so much lower than income taxes? Passive income doesnt deserve to be taxed at a lower rate than regular income.


I don't know the specific on Trumps income...but I'm fairly certain it's not considered "passive"...mostly because there's no such thing according to the IRS. If I'm assuming you are using it colloquially....his income certainly isn't in the passive bucket. Also generally this type of income has very limited deductions available to it.

Capital gains are what provides much of the liquidity in the markets. This is money that is put at risk on the bet of a return. It's not this giant sum of money sitting in someones bank or investment account. It's in the economy working, and when returned it is re-invested. If you restrict this you wind up with limited equity or cash available for businesses to use to grow, expand, hire people, etc. This is similar to what happened when the mortgage backed securities took a tumble. Banks and investors hoarded what cash they had until the government stepped in with trillions of dollars to loosen things up. If you want the government to take this money away then we start looking at the economy contracting.


I understand what youre saying but am not convinced. Seems to me this is an offshoot of the trickle-down economic theory that has been so often assumed but never proven, especially by those with money who favor keeping capital gains taxes low (I.e., Republicans). As BO points out, a necessary condition to economic proliferation is consumer spending, and shifting higher tax burdens to those with ordinary incomes reduces that.

That said, I have philosophical and moral objections to the notion that we need to help artificially keep rich people rich (by lower taxes) because keeping them rich allows them to reinvest which is good for the economy. Thats BS.


Capital gains arent exclusive to the rich. Increasing taxes on this income would hurt the average retiree much more.


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: grapedrink] #2908968
02/05/19 06:11 PM
02/05/19 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: grapedrink
Losing the home office deduction will cost me about $600. Not sure if the new brackets will be favorable for me, but I doubt it will change much.
The new standard deduction basically make owning a home a non-incentive. Which isn't really a bad thing in principal. Interesting to see if this affects real estate pricing and buying habits in California shrug


I was wondering that too but also average mortgage is 30 years and it's not like the next person in office can't work with Congress to change things again. Especially if there are hordes of angry people who owe. shrug

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Uberkuque] #2909510
02/06/19 06:19 PM
02/06/19 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Uberkuque
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
If you did it right you don't get a return or owe anything at the end of the year. Always laugh at people who get all excited at getting a tax return. People too dumb to realize that they gave the government an interest free loan.


Bigger than timing issues is the total amount paid in taxes. That's where many of us will lose, so that the ultra rich pay less.


What is "ultra rich'?


"The Wright brothers decide to make themselves a flying machine. You fools! You idiots! Whats your problem? everyone shouted, That will never work because plywood weighs more than air! To which the Wright brothers responded, No, it doesnt. The Wright brothers were dreamers."
Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: hal9000] #2909532
02/06/19 06:41 PM
02/06/19 06:41 PM
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if you're paying more in taxes this year, take is in stride as you're helping the banks who saw their effective tax rate drop from around 28% to 19% under trump's tax cuts.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-ease-off-loans

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: ifallalot] #2909539
02/06/19 06:50 PM
02/06/19 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: ifallalot
Just wait until we get our "free healthcare" and "free college"


At least we'd have a healthy and educated populace. I'll take that over his silly monument to stupidity on our southern border any day.


"Milk tits rule!" - Bonzer5Fin

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Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: obslop] #2909543
02/06/19 06:52 PM
02/06/19 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: obslop
if you're paying more in taxes this year, take is in stride as you're helping the banks who saw their effective tax rate drop from around 28% to 19% under trump's tax cuts.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...-ease-off-loans


to be kind of fair, since those are global banks I wonder how much of their job cut forecast could be attributed to Brexit uncertainty. those job numbers could be worldwide numbers for each bank.

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Autoprax] #2909684
02/06/19 10:10 PM
02/06/19 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax

If you inherit the money and then you make gains on the capital, even better!


This aspect of death/inheritance is a curious thing.

Someone, lets call her Friend #38, had inherited some stock from a parent.

She is doing the estate taxes, her taxes, her dead parent's final tax all in the same season.

When she felt she was getting overwhelmed, asked me to double check the math, review some tax code citation on a few forms, and so forth, before filing.

I do as she asks and step through the forms, the supporting forms, the instructions for estate filing, blah blah blah.

The part about the cost basis of the inherited stock was eye opening in its implications.

The short version of it is as follows:

1 Mom buys small lots of stock in about 10 companies in the early 80s through the early 90s

2 Get some dividend and splits over the ensuing years, never sells any, and the scumbag younger sister didn't steal them and sell them when mom slid into dementia, so when mom dies, there is about 1500 shares spread across Disney, Microsoft, Xerox, AT&T, Pepsi, etc...no crap, and 30+ years of holding and now it is to be split between 2 siblings.

3 Usually when you sell stock, you subtract initial buy price (cost basis) from final sale price, the difference being the capitol gain.....you are taxed on that gain.

4 When you die without selling your stock, the beneficiaries of the stock get to claim the cost basis of the stock on the date of death of the holder. So then if you sell it a day later you will be taxed on that single day gain or if it is a loss, you can use it to offset any other gains.

What this meant for my friend is she got 30 years of tax free gain and had to pay taxes on a teeny, tiny amount of gain....maybe say a dime per share for the three months she had the stock. So no taxes on the gain her parent had from 1985 through 2015 from holding those MSFT shares, just the dime per share gain for those three months.

That is how you pass on money.

Last edited by Mr Doof; 02/06/19 10:41 PM. Reason: typed too fast, left out an important 'no'...it is there now.
Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Mr Doof] #2909687
02/06/19 10:13 PM
02/06/19 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax

If you inherit the money and then you make gains on the capital, even better!


This aspect of death/inheritance is a curious thing.

Someone, lets call her Friend #38, had inherited some stock from a parent.

She is doing the estate taxes, her taxes, her dead parent's final tax all in the same season.

When she felt she was getting overwhelmed, asked me to double check the math, review some tax code citation on a few forms, and so forth, before filing.

I do as she asks and step through the forms, the supporting forms, the instructions for estate filing, blah blah blah.

The part about the cost basis of the inherited stock was eye opening in its implications.

The short version of it is as follows:

1 Mom buys small lots of stock in about 10 companies in the early 80s through the early 90s

2 Get some dividend and splits over the ensuing years, never sells any, and the scumbag younger sister didn't steal them and sell them when mom slid into dementia, so when mom dies, there is about 1500 shares spread across Disney, Microsoft, Xerox, AT&T, Pepsi, etc...no crap, and 30+ years of holding and now it is to be split between 2 siblings.

3 Usually when you sell stock, you subtract initial buy price (cost basis) from final sale price, the difference being the capitol gain.....you are taxed on that gain.

4 When you die without selling your stock, the beneficiaries of the stock get to claim the cost basis of the stock on the date of death of the holder. So then if you sell it a day later you will be taxed on that single day gain or if it is a loss, you can use it to offset any other gains.

What this meant for my friend is she got 30 years of tax free gain and had to pay taxes on a teeny, tiny amount of gain....maybe say a dime per share for the three months she had the stock. So taxes on the gain her parent had from 1985 through 2015 from holding those MSFT shares, just the dime per share gain for those three months.

That is how you pass on money.


better way to pass it on is to put the stock account in a trust.

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Mr Doof] #2909692
02/06/19 10:20 PM
02/06/19 10:20 PM
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BRILLIANT!!!!

ahahahaha

that is bananas


if you haven't smoked DMT you have no credibility on any subject in surfing or outside of surfing...
Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: stu dog] #2909699
02/06/19 10:40 PM
02/06/19 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: stu dog
Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax

If you inherit the money and then you make gains on the capital, even better!


This aspect of death/inheritance is a curious thing.

Someone, lets call her Friend #38, had inherited some stock from a parent.

She is doing the estate taxes, her taxes, her dead parent's final tax all in the same season.

When she felt she was getting overwhelmed, asked me to double check the math, review some tax code citation on a few forms, and so forth, before filing.

I do as she asks and step through the forms, the supporting forms, the instructions for estate filing, blah blah blah.

The part about the cost basis of the inherited stock was eye opening in its implications.

The short version of it is as follows:

1 Mom buys small lots of stock in about 10 companies in the early 80s through the early 90s

2 Get some dividend and splits over the ensuing years, never sells any, and the scumbag younger sister didn't steal them and sell them when mom slid into dementia, so when mom dies, there is about 1500 shares spread across Disney, Microsoft, Xerox, AT&T, Pepsi, etc...no crap, and 30+ years of holding and now it is to be split between 2 siblings.

3 Usually when you sell stock, you subtract initial buy price (cost basis) from final sale price, the difference being the capitol gain.....you are taxed on that gain.

4 When you die without selling your stock, the beneficiaries of the stock get to claim the cost basis of the stock on the date of death of the holder. So then if you sell it a day later you will be taxed on that single day gain or if it is a loss, you can use it to offset any other gains.

What this meant for my friend is she got 30 years of tax free gain and had to pay taxes on a teeny, tiny amount of gain....maybe say a dime per share for the three months she had the stock. So taxes on the gain her parent had from 1985 through 2015 from holding those MSFT shares, just the dime per share gain for those three months.

That is how you pass on money.


better way to pass it on is to put the stock account in a trust.


I agree.

Not tough to do on your lonesome.... how to do just that.

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: afoaf] #2909706
02/06/19 10:49 PM
02/06/19 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: afoaf
BRILLIANT!!!!

ahahahaha

that is bananas


Time to have a talk with your kids....

Now offspring of mine, I could buy you a used car for high school graduation and pay for 3 and a half years of university schooling, but because I am looking out for you, instead, I am going to buy 500 shares of XBI. If for some reason, I don't sell them before I die, let me tell you all about the tax code and how to use it to your advantage....... Meanwhile, you're on your own!

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: hal9000] #2909709
02/06/19 10:58 PM
02/06/19 10:58 PM
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Stepped Up Basis is the name of my new klezmer band

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: Mr Doof] #2909713
02/06/19 11:19 PM
02/06/19 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: stu dog
Originally Posted By: Mr Doof
Originally Posted By: Autoprax

If you inherit the money and then you make gains on the capital, even better!


This aspect of death/inheritance is a curious thing.

Someone, lets call her Friend #38, had inherited some stock from a parent.

She is doing the estate taxes, her taxes, her dead parent's final tax all in the same season.

When she felt she was getting overwhelmed, asked me to double check the math, review some tax code citation on a few forms, and so forth, before filing.

I do as she asks and step through the forms, the supporting forms, the instructions for estate filing, blah blah blah.

The part about the cost basis of the inherited stock was eye opening in its implications.

The short version of it is as follows:

1 Mom buys small lots of stock in about 10 companies in the early 80s through the early 90s

2 Get some dividend and splits over the ensuing years, never sells any, and the scumbag younger sister didn't steal them and sell them when mom slid into dementia, so when mom dies, there is about 1500 shares spread across Disney, Microsoft, Xerox, AT&T, Pepsi, etc...no crap, and 30+ years of holding and now it is to be split between 2 siblings.

3 Usually when you sell stock, you subtract initial buy price (cost basis) from final sale price, the difference being the capitol gain.....you are taxed on that gain.

4 When you die without selling your stock, the beneficiaries of the stock get to claim the cost basis of the stock on the date of death of the holder. So then if you sell it a day later you will be taxed on that single day gain or if it is a loss, you can use it to offset any other gains.

What this meant for my friend is she got 30 years of tax free gain and had to pay taxes on a teeny, tiny amount of gain....maybe say a dime per share for the three months she had the stock. So taxes on the gain her parent had from 1985 through 2015 from holding those MSFT shares, just the dime per share gain for those three months.

That is how you pass on money.


better way to pass it on is to put the stock account in a trust.


I agree.

Not tough to do on your lonesome.... how to do just that.



paid a family friend who's a lawyer $900 to do mine. In that amount he also did the paper work to change the deed on my place to the trust name and a will (that refers to the trust). worth every penny.

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: hal9000] #2909720
02/06/19 11:29 PM
02/06/19 11:29 PM
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yes. step-up in basis is a huge tax saver.

Re: 2018 Tax Returns.....whos getting screwed? [Re: obslop] #2909822
02/07/19 04:06 AM
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60k overpayment


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