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Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Coat Hanger] #2914859
02/17/19 10:50 PM
02/17/19 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Please watch....Coat Hanger.

https://youtu.be/pmt7uSU3mmU


I'm not sure what the point of the video is. Anatomically the shoulder joint is designed to allow the arm to rise overhead.

One of the reasons a dead hang isn't the best choice for non specific shoulder pain is that there will be a natural urge to retract the scapula to provide stability and reduce pressure on the shoulder joint. This is a good thing because relaxing the joint under bodyweight can cause damage...unfortunately this increases the conditions that cause impingement.

Pressing weight overhead causes the scapula to rotate on it's own, as it's supposed to do which allows the joint to operate correctly and reduce impingement. You can increase this by shrugging your shoulders at the top, which will rotate the scapula further.

It's a good practice to get in for surfers. Shrugging the shoulder up while paddling will reduce stress on the joint.


Not sure what you are saying in that post but I can assure you that the static hang helped me immensely.

I wouldn't call my pain non-specific. I could put my finger right on it and when it was fired up it was like being stabbed with an ice pick.


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Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2914881
02/17/19 11:54 PM
02/17/19 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Please watch....Coat Hanger.

https://youtu.be/pmt7uSU3mmU


I'm not sure what the point of the video is. Anatomically the shoulder joint is designed to allow the arm to rise overhead.

One of the reasons a dead hang isn't the best choice for non specific shoulder pain is that there will be a natural urge to retract the scapula to provide stability and reduce pressure on the shoulder joint. This is a good thing because relaxing the joint under bodyweight can cause damage...unfortunately this increases the conditions that cause impingement.

Pressing weight overhead causes the scapula to rotate on it's own, as it's supposed to do which allows the joint to operate correctly and reduce impingement. You can increase this by shrugging your shoulders at the top, which will rotate the scapula further.

It's a good practice to get in for surfers. Shrugging the shoulder up while paddling will reduce stress on the joint.


Not sure what you are saying in that post but I can assure you that the static hang helped me immensely.

I wouldn't call my pain non-specific. I could put my finger right on it and when it was fired up it was like being stabbed with an ice pick.


Like I said previously, the best thing you can do for joint pain is to use it.

Anatomy is what it is though and dead hangs can have a tendency to be counter productive. If you like them great, I would suggest to allow your scapula to rotate while hanging which may not feel very natural.


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Coat Hanger] #2915441
02/19/19 12:45 AM
02/19/19 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: patrolman
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Mr J
a physio said that usual dumbbell, barbell shoulder gym stuff is good coz it builds up the muscle and ligaments in the shoulders which helps protect. This sounds like what you are doing so is good.


The heavy duty stuff neglects the smaller rotator cuff muscles. The whole point of rotator cuff training is very light with high reps - almost doesn't feel like proper exercising. I like the elastic tubing ones best however I like the way this man explains how to isolate the rotator cuff muscles and avoid the bigger muscles such as delts taking over the exercise. Unlike the heavy stuff, rotator cuff can be exercised every day.

https://youtu.be/mvjQMoL246o




The muscles of the shoulder work in conjunction with and complimentary of each other. Why would you try and isolate the smaller weaker muscles (you can't) and ignore the larger and more powerful muscles? Why would you try (again, you can't) to create an imbalance in this necessary architecture?


Hey Coathanger, I'm curious what your qualifications are? I would be more inclined to consider your statements if I knew you had some expertise. The fact is my Physical Therapist included some exercises that seemed (to me) so easy (little arm circles while dangling the arm) that I kind of complained they were not exercise. They were much lighter that what is described above. The explanation he gave is exactly what you seem to refute- the light exercises work "positioning" muscles that can be over ridden by larger muscle groups if using weights or resistance.


I'm a partner in a small private strength and conditioning gym with two DR's. one Internal medicine and the other a DPT. About ten years ago they provided me an alternative to back surgery and the rest is history. Generally I'm just one of three staff trainers but do work with clients during the rehab process if they are cleared to train by the docs. Day to day I handle more of the business side of things but when I'm in town I'm training. Our shop is sport specific for athletes. It's not a rehab facility because rehab isn't the focus, but we do work through the day to day niggles that athletes get from time to time. We often have a short period of time to work with them and then it's mostly check ins. Quick and efficient.

I think common sense could be your guide here.

If you walk into just about any physical therapy office in the country you will see patients being treated for an awful disease called gravity by doing thing like assisted stand up out of chairs and assisted seated calf raises. Things like arm circles, body weight lying leg extensions, rolling balls with their feet etc. It's all bullshit.

It is anatomically impossible to have an imbalance between large muscles and those known as stabilizers unless of course you had a destructive injury that rendered the specific muscle useless. When you do anything physical your body handles the task one way. You aren't going to be able focus stress from large muscles to "stabilizers(I hate this term)" by adjusting the weight. There are however things a bad PT will do to stress the smaller muscles of the rotator cuff for instance, but these exercises are not helpful because the joint isn't made to work that way.

Compound movements stress the muscles, soft tissue and joints of the body perfectly and in balance in the exact way the body is supposed to handle external stress. Aches and pains are part of getting older. General strength increases and common sense help protect you from injury. When you're hurting you rest during the acute injury phase, then back off and work through it. Make sure your form in the movement is as precise as you can make it to reduce your chance of injury.


Cool... So this stuff is basically your job. I'll consider your views more attentively now. Thanks.

Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: patrolman] #2915467
02/19/19 01:16 AM
02/19/19 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: patrolman
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: patrolman
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: Mr J
a physio said that usual dumbbell, barbell shoulder gym stuff is good coz it builds up the muscle and ligaments in the shoulders which helps protect. This sounds like what you are doing so is good.


The heavy duty stuff neglects the smaller rotator cuff muscles. The whole point of rotator cuff training is very light with high reps - almost doesn't feel like proper exercising. I like the elastic tubing ones best however I like the way this man explains how to isolate the rotator cuff muscles and avoid the bigger muscles such as delts taking over the exercise. Unlike the heavy stuff, rotator cuff can be exercised every day.

https://youtu.be/mvjQMoL246o




The muscles of the shoulder work in conjunction with and complimentary of each other. Why would you try and isolate the smaller weaker muscles (you can't) and ignore the larger and more powerful muscles? Why would you try (again, you can't) to create an imbalance in this necessary architecture?


Hey Coathanger, I'm curious what your qualifications are? I would be more inclined to consider your statements if I knew you had some expertise. The fact is my Physical Therapist included some exercises that seemed (to me) so easy (little arm circles while dangling the arm) that I kind of complained they were not exercise. They were much lighter that what is described above. The explanation he gave is exactly what you seem to refute- the light exercises work "positioning" muscles that can be over ridden by larger muscle groups if using weights or resistance.


I'm a partner in a small private strength and conditioning gym with two DR's. one Internal medicine and the other a DPT. About ten years ago they provided me an alternative to back surgery and the rest is history. Generally I'm just one of three staff trainers but do work with clients during the rehab process if they are cleared to train by the docs. Day to day I handle more of the business side of things but when I'm in town I'm training. Our shop is sport specific for athletes. It's not a rehab facility because rehab isn't the focus, but we do work through the day to day niggles that athletes get from time to time. We often have a short period of time to work with them and then it's mostly check ins. Quick and efficient.

I think common sense could be your guide here.

If you walk into just about any physical therapy office in the country you will see patients being treated for an awful disease called gravity by doing thing like assisted stand up out of chairs and assisted seated calf raises. Things like arm circles, body weight lying leg extensions, rolling balls with their feet etc. It's all bullshit.

It is anatomically impossible to have an imbalance between large muscles and those known as stabilizers unless of course you had a destructive injury that rendered the specific muscle useless. When you do anything physical your body handles the task one way. You aren't going to be able focus stress from large muscles to "stabilizers(I hate this term)" by adjusting the weight. There are however things a bad PT will do to stress the smaller muscles of the rotator cuff for instance, but these exercises are not helpful because the joint isn't made to work that way.

Compound movements stress the muscles, soft tissue and joints of the body perfectly and in balance in the exact way the body is supposed to handle external stress. Aches and pains are part of getting older. General strength increases and common sense help protect you from injury. When you're hurting you rest during the acute injury phase, then back off and work through it. Make sure your form in the movement is as precise as you can make it to reduce your chance of injury.


Cool... So this stuff is basically your job. I'll consider your views more attentively now. Thanks.


It's more like a hobby. I'm lucky enough to work with very talented people and pitch in where I can.


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Coat Hanger] #2915582
02/19/19 10:38 AM
02/19/19 10:38 AM
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It sounds like it's a hobby. Geez what a bunch of gobble goop. And no, I'm going to review each of your half truths. Hey, it's the internet everyone is an expert. My physician isn't really a doctor but he hangs out with them, he does it as kind of a hobby. socrazy

Last edited by surfflexx; 02/19/19 10:47 AM.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2915625
02/19/19 02:46 PM
02/19/19 02:46 PM
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surfflex,

Would you say as general rule, movement without pain is the Rx.

That seems pretty reasonable to me.

Have you read Stuart Mcgills new book.

IF so, what do you think?


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Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Autoprax] #2915821
02/19/19 07:12 PM
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Stuart Mcgill's book Lower Back Disorder is excellent.

Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: surfflexx] #2915878
02/19/19 09:23 PM
02/19/19 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: surfflexx
It sounds like it's a hobby. Geez what a bunch of gobble goop. And no, I'm going to review each of your half truths. Hey, it's the internet everyone is an expert. My physician isn't really a doctor but he hangs out with them, he does it as kind of a hobby. socrazy


Are you still acting as a sex surrogate for the elderly? sleezebag.


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2916485
02/20/19 11:32 PM
02/20/19 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Please watch....Coat Hanger.

https://youtu.be/pmt7uSU3mmU


I'm not sure what the point of the video is. Anatomically the shoulder joint is designed to allow the arm to rise overhead.

One of the reasons a dead hang isn't the best choice for non specific shoulder pain is that there will be a natural urge to retract the scapula to provide stability and reduce pressure on the shoulder joint. This is a good thing because relaxing the joint under bodyweight can cause damage...unfortunately this increases the conditions that cause impingement.

Pressing weight overhead causes the scapula to rotate on it's own, as it's supposed to do which allows the joint to operate correctly and reduce impingement. You can increase this by shrugging your shoulders at the top, which will rotate the scapula further.

It's a good practice to get in for surfers. Shrugging the shoulder up while paddling will reduce stress on the joint.


Not sure what you are saying in that post but I can assure you that the static hang helped me immensely.

I wouldn't call my pain non-specific. I could put my finger right on it and when it was fired up it was like being stabbed with an ice pick.


It'a a good read but I'm not sure you want to purchase the paper. The conclusion is that joint spacing and pain are not associated.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1063458418314158


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Coat Hanger] #2917111
02/22/19 01:54 AM
02/22/19 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
Originally Posted By: GromsDad
Originally Posted By: Coat Hanger
[quote=GromsDad]Please watch....Coat Hanger.

https://youtu.be/pmt7uSU3mmU


I'm not sure what the point of the video is. Anatomically the shoulder joint is designed to allow the arm to rise overhead.

One of the reasons a dead hang isn't the best choice for non specific shoulder pain is that there will be a natural urge to retract the scapula to provide stability and reduce pressure on the shoulder joint. This is a good thing because relaxing the joint under bodyweight can cause damage...unfortunately this increases the conditions that cause impingement.

Pressing weight overhead causes the scapula to rotate on it's own, as it's supposed to do which allows the joint to operate correctly and reduce impingement. You can increase this by shrugging your shoulders at the top, which will rotate the scapula further.

It's a good practice to get in for surfers. Shrugging the shoulder up while paddling will reduce stress on the joint.


Not sure what you are saying in that post but I can assure you that the static hang helped me immensely.

I wouldn't call my pain non-specific. I could put my finger right on it and when it was fired up it was like being stabbed with an ice pick.


It'a a good read but I'm not sure you want to purchase the paper. The conclusion is that joint spacing and pain are not associated.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1063458418314158 [/quote

So there's really no such thing as bursitis?

Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2917256
02/22/19 06:07 AM
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Yes, there is a such thing as bursitis....soft tissue injuries are real.

But joint spacing is something that has been used to diagnose the genesis of pain for years.....like using shoulder impingement as a catch all for describing joint pain. This diagnosis is more likely than not to cause pain rather than cure it.

Commission bias: results from the obligation towards beneficence, in that harm to the patient can only be prevented by active intervention. It is the tendency towards action rather than inaction. It is more likely in over-confident physicians.







Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: surfflexx] #2917721
02/23/19 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: surfflexx
Stuart Mcgill's book Lower Back Disorder is excellent.


The new one is aimed at the general pop.

I like it.


incompetence is preferable to malice.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: Autoprax] #2919453
02/26/19 09:28 PM
02/26/19 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Autoprax
Originally Posted By: surfflexx
Stuart Mcgill's book Lower Back Disorder is excellent.


The new one is aimed at the general pop.

I like it.


He's great if you want to hear someone speak about really basic no duh type of things wrapped up in a bunch of semantics. It's something a lot of really bright and passionate people do.

The problem with this is that words matter....but don't take my word for it.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/7/e014129


Originally Posted By: StuAzole
The deference given to veterans is insane. They signed up, did their job and got paid for it. Fine.
Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2919486
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Re: Best shoulder therapy exercises? [Re: GromsDad] #2920994
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