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Do pros actually ride EPS? #2896826
01/11/19 06:15 PM
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guys that are riding Slater 'designs' (firewire), or Stretch, are they actually on EPS or really riding PU

I finally get the hate on EPS, I was planing and its so hard to change direction and engage rail when you are going so fast and above the water. Just ordered yet another, might not be too late to see if I can switch to PU

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896881
01/11/19 08:15 PM
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It doesn't necessarily sit way out of the water compared to PU in the same shape. You might want to check the bottom contours, rails and volume.
I have some PUs that sit up high and plane and some EPS boards that sit very low in the water and turn on a dime/engage because of the foiled rails.
As said on another thread, the density of the blank can also make a big difference.

Can't comment on Firewires as have only ridden them a handful of times.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896883
01/11/19 08:17 PM
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A few ride EPS but the vast majority ride pu/pe and this is very easily explained.

More reliable handling.


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Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896886
01/11/19 08:22 PM
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yeah - I was riding a super wide tail fish in sizable surf, just had a lot of speed. this next one on order is more HP.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896921
01/11/19 10:54 PM
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Slater was riding it when he was on CI.

Some, (if not all I would be willing to guess) FWs you see the pros riding are made of different types of foam including stringerless EPS and have been glassed by EpoxyPro and Justin Ternes.

So they are essentially a whole different ball game than an off the rack FW or standard wood stringered EPS.


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Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896927
01/11/19 11:13 PM
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probably need to do some deadlifts.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896944
01/11/19 11:27 PM
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Slater's got an unlimited board budget.........Do you?


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Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896968
01/12/19 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: rts265
guys that are riding Slater 'designs' (firewire), or Stretch, are they actually on EPS or really riding PU

I finally get the hate on EPS, I was planing and its so hard to change direction and engage rail when you are going so fast and above the water. Just ordered yet another, might not be too late to see if I can switch to PU


my 2c: rails aren't right. Very little if anything to do with the construction/materials. would love to see pics of the board + rail shots. what is the rail profile? how thick are the rails? etc

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896975
01/12/19 12:18 AM
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its a bat tail quadfish, usually have a blast on it, today waves were big but then backing of, I felt a lot of chatter not from fins, I think I was planing above water, tried cutting back to pocket but was just going too damn fast

maybe the wrong board for today? had no trouble with making the drop, just a lot of speed, curious if i'd have done better on PU or a high performance EPS, rails on my fish are full, its got a lot of volume but I sink it when paddling.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896976
01/12/19 12:23 AM
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Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896984
01/12/19 12:38 AM
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Oh, perfect. I'm super-familiar with the rails, at least on my QF. 50-50, lots of volume, etc. I've taken mine in large Sunset Cliffs, and found that it worked perfectly. HOWEVER, my board has a step-down tail, and a traditional fish tail, so like, the opposite of your tail. I even found it easy to engage the WHOLE rail on mine, due to the rail shape. I didn't share the same experience as you with that board.

what's your height / weight, again vs. the dims on that QF?

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: SixtyGrit] #2896985
01/12/19 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: SixtyGrit
Oh, perfect. I'm super-familiar with the rails, at least on my QF. 50-50, lots of volume, etc. I've taken mine in large Sunset Cliffs, and found that it worked perfectly. HOWEVER, my board has a step-down tail, and a traditional fish tail, so like, the opposite of your tail. I even found it easy to engage the WHOLE rail on mine, due to the rail shape. I didn't share the same experience as you with that board.

what's your height / weight, again vs. the dims on that QF?


6'1, 220

5'10 x 21.5 x 2.875

yeah - i think its the wide ass tail... still my favorite, but need to get a traditional swallow next one.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896986
01/12/19 12:40 AM
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oh and what's your fin setup??

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2896989
01/12/19 12:54 AM
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St2 large

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897026
01/12/19 01:49 AM
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Alright, everyone is going to disagree with me on this one, but I don't think those are good fins for that board, but that's just like, my opinion, man.

You're going to be looking for something that can manage the flow with that bat tail without forcing tons of flow straight the back, and allowing some flow the rails to engage. I think you have too much fin for the wave size (edit: especially with the rears on the ST2s). I'm not 100% sure, but I'd be interested in hearing how the Alpha Controllers work for you. All the fins need to do here is manage your speed, not generate it, so if those ST2s are what you take into mushier conditions, driving off the bottom and top, find something else that'll allow you to control a big bottom turn without releasing on you (since you're a bigger dude).

Someone else, feel free to contradict me, or tell me I'm off base here.

Last edited by SixtyGrit; 01/12/19 01:50 AM.
Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897030
01/12/19 02:08 AM
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I have a small buzz set (theyre bigger than large st2)

I have a set of controllers - think theyre alphas

Im taking the mackie and mlv tomorrow anyway

cheers

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897056
01/12/19 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: rts265
probably need to do some deadlifts.


Definitely. I still struggle on my EPS deck.


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Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897166
01/12/19 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: rts265
guys that are riding Slater 'designs' (firewire), or Stretch, are they actually on EPS or really riding PU

I finally get the hate on EPS, I was planing and its so hard to change direction and engage rail when you are going so fast and above the water. Just ordered yet another, might not be too late to see if I can switch to PU


you ride really big boards for your size. less of an issue with PU than EPS.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: averagejoe] #2897174
01/12/19 03:43 PM
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6'1, 220

5'10 x 21.5 x 2.875 (sounds about right to me)
socrazy
Seems to me like not the best board(a little wide in the tail) for the particular waves on tap that day


NOT THAT KIND
Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: need 4 speed] #2897177
01/12/19 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: need 4 speed
6'1, 220

5'10 x 21.5 x 2.875 (sounds about right to me)
socrazy
Seems to me like not the best board(a little wide in the tail) for the particular waves on tap that day


I would normally agree, but happen to own an oversized for me QF that I've taken into reasonably powerful conditions.... How big WERE the conditions? Isn't RTS in NZ? I'm talking like barely OH, not DOH NZ barrelz...

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897185
01/12/19 04:10 PM
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No Im in Los Angeles

Solid OH+

Yeah, just not best board choice for the day

Just finally saw what people who hate on eps are talking about

Problem was the drops were steep and fast but the wave backed off after that. So, needed to cut back. If the wave kept running would be a different story

Last edited by rts265; 01/12/19 04:13 PM.
Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: SixtyGrit] #2897187
01/12/19 04:22 PM
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I'm going to guess those dimensions are about 38 ltr+ I would not consider that large for a guy who is 220. For a non-pro semi advanced surfer I'd suggest going closer to the high side of 39 ltr. Or more. Especially if you are strapping on a 4/3 wetsuit. And I've been 220 with single digit body fat. My avatar was shot at about 220 in my early 50's.

I've cut a number of EPS boards for pros. The White Diamond that started that thing off went out for Dane in EPS. I argued against that decision. I was wrong. He loved that board. There were apparently quite a number of EPS boards (non FW) in Slater's pond. I have uneven results in EPS. Seems largely dependent on conditions. Poly always feels like coming home.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897190
01/12/19 04:29 PM
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Ive stepped it up to the 40s

I completely sink this fish in question when paddling

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897212
01/12/19 05:21 PM
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I've been doing a quiver reset lately, my eps boards were sized for when I was 30-40 lbs heavier. I found myself struggling to turn them where and when I wanted. I am much happier now. Still all eps. I originally switched to eps to increase float and paddleability. I've been giving some thought to trying pu with epoxy glassing for shits and giggles. Don't take this the wrong way as it is not intended to sound dickish, but it's usually the archer, not the arrow(your case could be a little arrow). Tommy made a great comment on a different thread "pro can ride anything", I think pros will ride anything that gets them paid(or free boards they can flip for cash). I recently dropped a board off at a glasser and when we were discussing glassing options it was interesting to hear him(just in passing) about the inferior core I brought him (eps)


NOT THAT KIND
Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897217
01/12/19 05:41 PM
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Oh, Its totally me. Ive got a pu coming (Zippi) Ill report back if I feel any difference

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897423
01/13/19 09:35 AM
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Even before Kelly was with Firewire he rode EPS/Epoxy boards in comps every now and then and free surfs, rumour way back in FW Taja era was that he rode a few of Taja's FW's and really liked them, although I was still surprised when he bought into FW.

Ive seen a few X team riders boards boards including Sally's and an old snapped Taj board they seemed exactly the same as stock standard FST.

During the pre Kelly FW era Taj and Sally and Michel road FST

But since Kelly has come on board it seems Kelly and Michel and Stuey are all riding LFT and according to Mark often LFT without deck skins.

Which is not at all surprising seeing 99% of pros ride extremely light glassed boards, not many people ride the same glassing schedule as the pros get if you have ever rode a very lightly glassed PU/PE board you will understand why they get them glassed so light, because they go heaps better.

Apparently when Kelly started riding FW construction, he requested they mix things up and do EPS/Epoxy and PU/PE boards with the same design to try to take away any psychological bias from himself to the tech either way.

Although you still would expect he could pick the difference just from having a good look at them?

It is kind of funny though because, when he wasn't surfing that good and people were going his boards to floaty or something on the EPS/Epoxy, he was actually probably ridding PU/PE.


Last edited by indodreams; 01/13/19 10:00 AM.
Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897424
01/13/19 10:08 AM
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BTW. EPS sitting higher in the water is just another EPS/Epoxy hoax two boards that are exactly the same design/shapes in every way, if they sit in the water when paddling at the same point when up and riding the EPS/Epoxy doesn't suddenly sit higher, your issue is with design/shape etc.

IMHO even the EPS gives more float thing is a hoax, if it's scientifically true it's so minuscule that it can't be noticed...if it was true it would actually be great, i could go for less volume and a more refined board but still have the same float to paddle etc..it would great and EPS/Epoxy would then give a clear advantage over PU/PE...but I'm sorry to say it doest happen.

Re: Do pros actually ride EPS? [Re: rts265] #2897425
01/13/19 11:29 AM
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Argument is pretty funny. Paddling around, a surfboard is essentially a plank.

To claim two diffeeent materials dont have different natural frequencies is denying physics. Doesnt matter if theyre the same geometry, if the material is different they will resonate and deflect differently when put in a dynamic situation.

I think this is most of the weirdness felt comparing eps vs poly. How it gets described or put into words is a whole different issue.

Id love to try a stretch. Ive read hes figured out the right combo of glassing and density to make the EPS behave.

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